Talk:Carbondale, Illinois

Updating Carbondale, IL
I'm preparing to update [actually, have updated] the Wiki article on Carbondale, IL, specifically the section on "Reveling and Activism." These two terms apparently were paired together only because they were both linked with street disorders in past decades; I think they should be treated separately. And we are now more than 35 years away from the events of 1970; Carbondale now has a proud tradition of (peaceful) political activism that is more relevant in a contemporary encyclopedia article. Likewise the good, the bad, and the ugly of Carbondale's erstwhile Halloween celebration are slipping deeper into the past, farther from relevance in an encyclopedia article that seeks to characterize the city as it is.

I have replacement drafts written [and installed]: A 91-word section on (contemporary, peaceful) activism, and a 75-word summary of today's yearly festivals.

I think Wiki's neutral-viewpoint policy justifies some revisions to tone down the section's present focus on violence and disorder.

I would also like to add [actually, have added] a section, "Culture," about some of the unique cultural ("with both large and small C") institutions and activities in today's Carbondale. My draft is 193 words long.

Kotabatubara 20:00, 2 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Please be sure to use reliable sources and the cite them. The "reveling" section has historically been a high vandalism target and what is there now, at least the last time I checked, is backed by the campus newspaper articles linked. It seemed to be the only free source and though it is probably biased toward the university, I tried to stick to the facts available. I don't support removal of the reveling material completely as it was national news for several years. A paragraph seems adequate, but I wouldn't want it to be much less than that. I also oppose total removal of the 1970s riots, they are notable historically regardless of current activism. --Dual Freq 23:12, 2 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I have some misgivings about the restored material on the Halloween violence in Carbondale in 2000. In removing those details, I was not trying to whitewash the city's reputation.  But, for one thing, the degree of detail (the number of arrests, and the _individual from Danville_, in particular!) seemed more appropriate to a news report than to an encyclopedia article.  See Wiki's policy on "Neutral point of view", and its admonition to avoid what it calls a "sensationalist" bias, defined as "favoring the exceptional over the ordinary".


 * (To find that definition, on the Main_Page, first column, under "interaction", click "About Wikipedia". In that article, scroll down to the "Contents" box, and click "3.2 Wikipedia content criteria".  On that page, click "2. Wikipedia:Neutral point of view".  On that page, again scroll down to the "Contents" box and click "1.2 Bias".  On that page, find "Sensationalist" in the list.)


 * Note that leaving the details out of the Wiki article would not mean they were lost to history; in the version that I provided, the curious reader can find them by following the link to the Daily Egyptian article that is referenced.


 * My second misgiving about the restored material is that it seems to hold a magnifying glass up to one negative episode in the city's history, presenting it far out of proportion with other aspects that characterize the city. We don't need to deny that those things happened, but it seems inappropriate and even unfair for them to dominate the characterization of the city, where, after all, many other, positive, things are happening nowadays.


 * I'd like to suggest that we consult some neutral third parties and ask them how much detail about specific incidents they feel belongs in an encyclopedia article about a place.


 * Kotabatubara 03:10, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * We seem to have a dispute about what should be included in the article on Carbondale, IL. Reverting to previous text is not the solution, and is counter to Wiki policy.  Before submitting a "Request for Comment" (RfC) to the Wiki page on "Requests for comment/History and geography", I would like to see if we can come to agreement on the nature of our disagreement.  Wiki policy says "Do not post an RfC before working towards a resolution with other article contributors first."


 * Here is a draft of a description of the disagreement. Is it accurate?


 * In an article about a city (Carbondale, Illinois), we have a disagreement about how much detail on negative historical events is consistent with the Neutral Point of View policy. Kotabatubara 14:25, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * (Twelve years later) I have separated the remaining paragraph about the 1980s-1990s Halloween rioting out from the "Activism" section and place it into a (reactivated) "Reveling" section. This hard-partying hooliganism (similar to European "soccer/football hooliganism") was NOT "Activism", IMO.  Alternatively, the Halloween might qualify as part of "Celebrations" or of "Culture", albeit a quite unattractive aspect of either.  IMO, this remains a memorable, if unfortunate, aspect of the joint history of Carbondale and SIU.  (I've never been to the Carbondale area, but I do remember (while in Chicago) reading and hearing media reports of the riots.


 * This paragraph still needs citations (perhaps from those years of the Chicago Tribune, and perhaps should also refer to the non-student instigators arriving from out of town. IMO, if the riots included sexual assault(s), that, too, should be mentioned, with citations.  Acwilson9 (talk) 02:14, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

need photos
Need photos of Carbondale! Boromir&#39;s Regret 21:51, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

pop data
Two different population figures were found in the text, and so I removed the one that read some twenty-nine thousand souls in 2006. This figure didn't have a citation. Boromir&#39;s Regret 21:57, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

photo problems
Is anyone else seeing this? Murderbike (talk) 17:55, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Yellow Pages?
The section titled "Retail" reads like a book of Yellow Pages, not an encyclopedia. Is someone really updating it every time a business opens or closes? Is it really necessary to list every shop in town? I don't see anything like this in the articles on other cities that I chose at random (Alton, Champaigne, Marion, and Rockford). Kotabatubara (talk) 23:59, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Additional Info
I tried to talk to a business in Carbondale once about handicapped accessibility, they told me they'd break my legs if I ever came in again. I did come back... but they just stopped serving me, no leg breaking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.40.170.215 (talk) 17:46, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added tag to http://www.census.gov/popest/cities/tables/SUB-EST2009-04-17.xls
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071223061817/http://www.ci.carbondale.il.us:80/Historical/history.html to http://www.ci.carbondale.il.us/Historical/history.html
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External links modified
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.census.gov/prod/www/decennial.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://factfinder2.census.gov/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130801112834/http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/poverty/cb13-tps73.html to http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/poverty/cb13-tps73.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://shryock.siuc.edu/about
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100623035643/http://www.carbondalechamber.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=4&Itemid=8 to http://carbondalechamber.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=4&Itemid=8

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"Solardale"?
Where does this name come from? Is it a well-established nickname? If so, it should be noted as such. Regardless, it seems inappropriate as a heading in this article. --Avg W (talk) 05:21, 10 December 2018 (UTC)