Talk:Cardano (blockchain platform)/Archive 1

Contested deletion
This page is not unambiguously promotional, because I wrote to all the users who previously contributed to this article. From the more than 20 I addressed some responded, others I am still waiting for comment and some did not comment. But as you can see in the talk page, nobody mentioned that this article is written in a promotional way. As you can see on this talk page, even the admin David Gerard improved this article and gave me some pointers. Furthermore as the initiator I was still waiting for reactions of some whom I asked to review, but user 98.213.51.34 for some reason submitted the article I was still working on for weeks. Up to now I responded to every comment and tried to incorporate their comments. --FlippyFlink (talk) 18:38, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for restoring the deleted draft and the other admins for their reactions. I will try to improve the article to meet the Wikipedia standard by also asking the newly involved admins for their advice. --FlippyFlink (talk) 12:38, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Japanese source
Hello, you undid my revision with "No source" as comment. However I referred to "IOHK launched a secure smart contract technology". Here is an English translation. I removed the Google translate link because of this above comment from BenKuykendall: "The Sankei Shimbun source should link to the original website, not to Google Translate. (Wikipedia does not require sources to be in English.)" Is it ok to add my previous text again? --FlippyFlink (talk) 15:41, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The issue is it's a press release. I would recommend you take it out of the article as per WP:PRSOURCE. You can check out this source however, it may be a suitable replacement. --Dr-Bracket (talk) 19:44, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your review. I read and used your suggested reference website and felt the text still matched the reference. I will also take a look at your recent reference comment. Thank you for that review also. --FlippyFlink (talk) 07:57, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I updated the article according to your reference comment. Please let me know if any other changed have to be made. --FlippyFlink (talk) 22:50, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Cardano is strictly unmentioned in the source you use for their starting and launch date, which is why I tagged them as not in source. The Oracle Times is not a reliable source either, but it doesn't matter much since it doesn't address the point made. The Nasdaq source also references the Bitcoin Magazine, which is an unreliable as well. Lastly, the third source still has no mention of the claim, you simply removed the NIS template. Dr-Bracket (talk) 23:22, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I removed the Oracle Times reference I added before, because you mentioned that it is not a reliable source. In response to "Cardano is strictly unmentioned in the source you use for their starting and launch date" I added the Mashable reference which states "IOHK, the engineering company co-founded in 2015 by Hoskinson and Jeremy Wood, is best-known for building the main components of Cardano" & "On Oct. 1, 2017, an unusual event caused a collective gasp in the world of cryptocurrencies. A little known cryptocurrency called Cardano — or ADA, as its corresponding coin is called — showed up on crypto-tracking sites". Is it ok now? You named the crowdfundinsider.com as a reliable source. Do you have any other reliable sources I/we could use for this article? Then I can use them also. --FlippyFlink (talk) 08:27, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
 * That section is definitely a bit better now. I think the draft overall needs some more time to mature, but it's slowly getting there. Dr-Bracket (talk) 02:13, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Resubmit
Hello,, , , , , ,. Thank you for your comment on the Cardano deletion review. I read the Notability and Five_pillars and feel that the current state of this article meets the requirements. User:BenKuykendall created a deletion discussion page for Cardano in November 2018 with the comment "It seems probable that no reliable sources exist" whereafter Cardano was deleted. As you can see above BenKuykendall helped with this article by reviewing the sources. Because of avoiding refbombing the sources where limited from 29 to 11. This article for creation was rejected and speedy deleted on 11 January 2019 within 60 minutes after submission without further comment. And luckily restored later. I feel that I am 'aloud' to submit it again without the fear of a speedy deletion so others can also review it. Is that a correct assumption? Do you have any further suggestions to meet the Wikipedia requirements or how to proceed? --FlippyFlink (talk) 16:48, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I would think it is hopeless. No coverage in reliable sources whatsoever. A quick look at the references: only two potentially good sources in the list, CNBC and Financial Times, but neither mentions Cardano. Perhaps they are referenced to confirm some secondary points, but where is notability? Retimuko (talk) 04:54, 12 April 2019 (UTC)


 * I agree; I don't see any notability here. --K.e.coffman (talk) 05:04, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

A better start
than the previous version. To do, quickly:


 * more cites to mainstream media coverage - anything with a couple of paragraphs at least
 * remove the cites to crypto blogs (not accepted at WP:RSN)
 * remove the Forbes contributor blogs

The threat model here is AFD - the second and third points will go very badly in a deletion discussion - David Gerard (talk) 21:59, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
 * , thank you for your pointers and for deleting undesirable references. Any further comments are very welcome.
 * I moved the page back to draft; three sources, out of four, are: "Monetary Policy - Cardano". Cardano Settlement Layer Documentation; "Cardano Foundation". cardanofoundation.org; "Cardano Monetary Policy – Cardano Settlement Layer Documentation". cardanodocs.com. -- ?? --K.e.coffman (talk) 00:50, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * K.e.coffman, thank you for moving it to draft and for your input. All primary references are now removed. --FlippyFlink (talk) 09:36, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

FlippyFlink introduction
As stated on my User talk:FlippyFlink I am not paid or compensated to contribute to this article. I also was not asked to start this article. Information security and crypto are one of my favorite topics. So I created several related pages in the English Wikipedia and Dutch Wikipedia.

My apologies for the recreation mess a few weeks ago. Upto now I didn't know the draft procedure existed. The article was deleted after several months and I recreated it too quickly. Then I didn't notice that David Gerard moved the article to draft, so when I saved my last edit, the article was accidentally recreated again - and speedy deleted. Then ProgrammingGeek renamed and moved my personal sandbox live on 20 December 2018 and that was moved (back) again to this current draft version. David Gerard gave me some pointers on how to improve this article. That was and is much appreciated. Out of Cardano (platform) and Ada (cryptocurrency I like Cardano (cryptocurrency platform) the most.

The last time I listed Cardano at articles for creation it got speedy deleted, so I asked several members for a pre review. I realized moving the talks here is more transparent, so everyone can give input.

Any help on creating a worthy Wikipedia article is greatly appreciated :-) --FlippyFlink (talk) 10:36, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Pending talks

 * Pending: Nathan2055 (this page), Prokaryotes (this page), Ian.thomson (this page), Morgan Ginsberg (this page), Quispiam (this page), Oshwah (this page), 98.213.51.34 (this page).
 * Already commented: FlippyFlink (this page), David Gerard (this page), K.e.coffman (this page), BenKuykendall (this page), David.moreno72, Retimuko, Zupanto, Diannaa, GSS, ProgrammingGeek, Catrìona
 * No comment: Sandstein, RHaworth, Edgar181 (this page), Timotheus Canens: ping contribution

Notability
Thank you for your time and reaction. Catrìona gave the comment "|possibly notable, but fix the refbombing first", so I removed references. I can address your concern about available sources. Here are 29 sources, but because of avoiding the above mentioned refbombing I currently only listed 13. In regards of your other concern about future looking statements - Before 'my' recreated article was deleted, one admins reaction was that it read like an advertisement. So I rewrote/deleted proof-of-stake, smart contracts and use cases. I can understand that the article was deleted because of requirements. I am really trying to create a neutral Wikipedia style article which meets the fair requirements. I could write something about their biggest achivement, but don't want to advertise. I hope this satisfies your concerns for now? --FlippyFlink (talk) 08:37, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Reposting the below from my talk page. My comments still stand. --K.e.coffman (talk) 00:24, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Cardano pre review
Hello K.e.coffman, would you be willing to do a quick pre review of this Draft:Cardano_(cryptocurrency_platform)? ProgrammingGeek moved my sandbox live and you moved it to draft with the comment "Unclear notability; largely self-sourced". Would it be save now to submit it for review at Articles for Creation? Information security and crypto are one of my favorite topics. Thank you, --FlippyFlink (talk) 17:04, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Cardano (platform) was deleted from mainspace and is creation protected. Same story for Cardano (cryptocurrency). Just because the draft has a different name, does not mean that the history would not be brought up. So I'm not optimistic. --K.e.coffman (talk) 03:32, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your reaction. Someone else created Ada (cryptocurrency), I was trying to recreate Cardano (platform), but ProgrammingGeek (I don't know him/her) moved my sandbox live on 20 December 2018 just after the speedy deletion and renamed it to Draft:Cardano (cryptocurrency platform). I cannot help what others do, but think ProgrammingGeek's name is the best name out of the three. After it was moved to draft again, I tried to write the article in a neutral, non advertising, way. I hope I succedded and meet the Wikipedia standard. --FlippyFlink (talk)
 * Cardano (cryptocurrency platform) is also creation protected. Coming so soon after the deletion discussion, it's unlikely that it would be lifted. Beyond that, the subject does not appear to be notable yet. It's WP:TOOSOON, per review of available sources, such as "Cardano: a rising cryptocurrency that wants to change the world" (emphasis mine). This is all about the subject's aspirations and future looking statements. --K.e.coffman (talk) 04:43, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I wrote my reaction above, section: "Notability". --FlippyFlink (talk) 08:37, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Cardano on ICE/Blockstream data feed
In March 2019, the InterContinental Exchange (ICE), which controls the New York Stock Exchange, the LIFFE in London and 10 other regulated exchanges, announced the expansion of its coverage of the “most widely and actively traded cryptocurrencies” on its data feed with Blockstream from 15 to 58. The feed "delivers real-time and historical data ... from leading venues, markets and exchanges". Cardano is one of these currencies. Wikipedia's list of cryptocurrencies has 27. Of these coins, 11 are not on the ICE list: Auroracoin, Gridcoin, Mazacoin, Namecoin, Nxt, Peercoin, PotCoin, Primecoin, Ripple, Titcoin and Vertcoin. IOHKwriter (talk) 16:22, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Ready for submission?
Hello, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nathan2055&oldid=877698869#Cardano_ready_for_submission? ping] contribution, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Prokaryotes&oldid=877699343#Cardano_ready_for_submission? ping] contribution, ping contribution,  [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ian.thomson&oldid=877700039#Cardano_ready_for_submission? ping] contribution, ping  contribution, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Quispiam&oldid=877700306#Cardano_ready_for_submission? ping] contribution, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Oshwah&oldid=877689150#Cardano_ready_for_submission? ping] contribution, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Edgar181&oldid=877568772#Cardano_ready_for_submission? ping] contribution, ping contribution.

I pinged you, because I saw you where also previously engaged in Cardano talks. Thank you for your input so far. Do you think this article is ready enough to be submitted as an article for creation? Or do you have any suggestions?

I also looked at other Wikipedia Cardano pages in Deutsch, Eesti, Italiano, 日本語, Português, Română, Русский and Nederlands. And looked at other Wikipedia cryptocurrency pages like Verge, Filecoin, NEM, NEO, NuBits, Primecoin, Taler, Titcoin and others on the Template:Cryptocurrencies to get 'inspiration' on how to write an article which meets Wikipedia standards. I already got some great input from others, but maybe you want to contribute also :-) --FlippyFlink (talk) 22:12, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Copied reaction from Edgar181 talk page: I'm sorry, but I'm not familiar enough with the topic to judge the article content. My involvement in the deleted versions of the article was only an administrative action related to a serial spammer and unrelated to the article content itself. -- Ed (Edgar181) 13:54, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * No problem. Thanks for your reply. --FlippyFlink (talk) 14:07, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Contested deletion
This page should not be speedily deleted because... I have been making frequent notes on the Talk page over the past year, as discussed with and accepted by various Wikipedia editors. This is in preparation for Wikipedia accepting that this established altcoin - the only one of the top coins shown in the graphic on Wikipedia's list of cryptos page that does not have its own entry - is notable. IOHKwriter (talk) 23:41, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Move
I provided 3 more reliable sources from forbes and Yahoo finance, see no reason why not to move the article. I meets wikipedia standards imo Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 05:58, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The Yahoo is a crypto blog reprint, and the Forbes is a contributor blog. There's still a lot of bad sources in the article too - crypto blogs, WP:CRYSTAL press release churnalism and so forth. Anything that survives will be much shorter - David Gerard (talk) 15:01, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

-Please mark the bad sources, Forbes is reliable, maybe Yahoo finance is less reliable but depends to the content. A simple Google search shows the notability of the article. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 15:26, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * for the record, anything written by Forbes contributors is not reliable per longstanding consensus at WP:RSN - Forbes itself even caveats contributor content by noting contributor's opinions are their own. Anything written by Forbes staff is fine. SamHolt6 (talk) 15:44, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

-@ SamHolt6 OK I provided extra source beside Forbes for my new edit but I still think Forbes is reliable. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 16:01, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * , Forbes itself is reliable, but Forbes "contributor" pieces are basically blogs. Anyone can contribute an article and get paid for it, and the content is not subject to editorial review. We don't allow Forbes contributor blogs as reliable sources, and they do not contribute to a subject's notability. – bradv  🍁  16:03, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * in this edit you have just added the same Forbes contributor blog that was removed some minutes ago. This seems like an edit war. Retimuko (talk) 16:04, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

@ Retimuko rem that Forbes, i respect the opinion of majority. I think a lot has changed since 2018 and the article should be published and do my best. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 16:11, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

@ Retimuko and @ SamHolt6 Would you please check and see if there is any content or source that you have problems with? Thanks in Advance! Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 09:12, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Links to selected academic papers
Kiayias A., Russell A., David B., Oliynykov R. (2017) “Ouroboros: a provably secure proof-of-stake blockchain protocol”, in Katz J., Shacham H. (eds) Advances in Cryptology – Crypto 2017. pages 357–388, Cham, 2017. Springer International Publishinghttps://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-63688-7_12

Bernardo D., Gaži P., Kiayias A., Russell A. (2018) "Ouroboros praos: An adaptively-secure, semi-synchronous proof-of-stake blockchain", Annual International Conference on the Theory and Applications of Cryptographic Techniques, Springer, pp 66-98. https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-78375-8_3. EUROCRYPT 2018 - 37th Annual International Conference on the Theory and Applications of Cryptographic Techniques, Tel Aviv, Israel, April 29 - May 3, 2018 Proceedings, Part II, pages 66–98, 2018.

Avgouleas E. and Kiayias A. (2019) "The promise of blockchain technology for global securities and derivatives markets: The new financial ecosystem and the ‘holy grail’ of systemic risk containment", European Business Organization Law Review, December/2019, 20: 81. https://doi.org/10.1007/s40804-019-00133-3

Blockchain Technology Laboratory at the University of Edinburgh is funded by IOHK. Prof Aggelos Kiayias, chair in cybersecurity and privacy, heads up the lab and is chief scientist at IOHK

List of 2017 news items about the establishment of the Blockchain Technology Laboratory in The Times, The Scotsman, and Business Insider

Ouroboros Genesis: Composable Proof-of-Stake Blockchains with Dynamic Availability https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3243734.3243848 A Treasury System for Cryptocurrencies: Enabling Better Collaborative Intelligence https://www.ndss-symposium.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ndss2019_02A-2_Zhang_paper.pdf

Marlowe: Financial Contracts on Blockchain https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-030-03427-6_27 (It says on the first page This work is part of the Cardano project and is supported by IOHK)

The two papers from WTSC are on the Financial Crypto website - not published in Springer, but also not only in IOHK library. Marlowe: implementing and analysing financial contracts on blockchain http://fc20.ifca.ai/wtsc/WTSC2020/WTSC20_paper_18.pdf The Extended UTXO Model http://fc20.ifca.ai/wtsc/WTSC2020/WTSC20_paper_25.pdf

Reward Sharing Schemes for Stake Pools by Lars Bruenjes (IOHK); Aggelos Kiayias (University of Edinburgh and IOHK); Elias Koutsoupias (University of Oxford); Aikaterini-Panagiota Stouka (University of Edinburgh and IOHK). accepted to Euro S&P - but that has been postponed because of Covid-19. https://www.ieee-security.org/TC/EuroSP2020/accepted.htmlIOHKwriter (talk) 18:05, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

21 cryptocurrencies, including Cardano, assessed in "Developing a Cryptocurrency Assessment Framework: Function over Form" by Andrew Burnie (UCL and The Alan Turing Institute), James Burnie (Eversheds Sutherland (International) LLP), Andrew Henderson (Eversheds Sutherland (International) LLP). Ledger, 2018. http://ledger.pitt.edu/ojs/ledger/article/view/121/106

IOHK online library: https://iohk.io/en/research/library/IOHKwriter (talk) 20:29, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Cardano/IOHK/Hoskinson references in trusted sources
Other coins are allowed to link to their GitHub and white paper (see examples in refs at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies#cite_note-8)

https://www.scotsman.com/business/will-cardano-shake-finance-its-foundations-jim-duffy-comment-2872553

The Ouroboros protocol underlying Cardano is described in this academic paper, which is already cited at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies#cite_note-8 Md Sadek Ferdous; Mohammad Jabed Morshed Chowdhury; Hoque, Mohammad A.; Colman, Alan (January 20, 2020), Blockchain Consensuses Algorithms: A Survey, arXiv:2001.07091, Bibcode:2020arXiv200107091S

Lars Brünjes, Director of Education at IOHK, a Company Supporting Cardano Development, Says Blockchain Platform “Wants to be Truly Decentralized” https://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2020/06/163289-lars-brunjes-director-of-education-at-iohk-a-company-supporting-cardano-development-says-blockchain-platform-wants-to-be-truly-decentralized/ Crowdfund Insider has been cited on other W pages 148 times, going back at least to 2013 IOHKwriter (talk) 10:54, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies#/media/File:Market_capitalizations_of_cryptocurrencies.svg 2A00:23C4:A7:2301:5949:F09E:7E31:D6D3 (talk) 10:31, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Reynard, Cherry (May 25, 2018). "What are the top 10 cryptocurrencies?". The Telegraph. Retrieved October 15, 2018. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/digital-money/top-10-popular-cryptocurrencies-2018/2A00:23C4:A7:2301:5949:F09E:7E31:D6D3 (talk) 10:30, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

“Boxing with shadows: is Charles Hoskinson his own worst enemy?” Breakermag.com, 8 April 2019. https://breakermag.com/boxing-with-shadows-is-charles-hoskinson-his-own-worst-enemy/ profile of Cardano co-founder before IOHK summit and public conference in Miami. Breakermag cited as best of crypto sources in Wikipedia editors debate

"The prophets of cryptocurrency survey the boom and bust", Nick Paumgarten, New Yorker, October 15, 2018 https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/22/the-prophets-of-cryptocurrency-survey-the-boom-and-bust Hoskinson interviewed as part of substantial feature

"Such currency. Much risk", Kevin Roose, 16 September 2017, The New York Times, front page business section piece quotes Charles Hoskinson Bloomberg interview: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-18/ethereum-co-founder-says-crypto-coin-market-is-ticking-time-bomb

"Universities of Britain: cosying up to crypto is a bad look"', Jemima Kelly, 10 July 2018 Critical article on links between academia and crypto world, focusing on "cryptopuff masquerading as academic research" from Imperial College London and eToro (a platform that offers Cardano and other cryptos)

"Girl band Japanese sing praises of digital money", Leo Lewis, 13 January 2018, Financial Times Eight-member girl band Kasotsuka Shojo ("Virtual Currency Girls") inspired by cryptocurrencies with names like 'Cardano' and 'Bitcoin'IOHKwriter (talk) 13:59, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

"Blockchain entrepreneurs hold fast to their vision of tech utopia", Jane Wild, 30 January 2017, Financial Times Cites Charles Hoskinson talking about Cardano

"Central banks explore blockchain to create digital currencies", Jane Wild, Financial Times, 2 November 2016 Hoskinson's view on prospect of “smart” money

Robby HOUBEN, Alexander SNYERS (2018) "Cryptocurrencies and blockchain", Policy Department for Economic, Scientific and Quality of Life Policies, Directorate-General for Internal Policies of the European Parliament. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/150761/TAX3%20Study%20on%20cryptocurrencies%20and%20blockchain.pdf

This EU report includes the following: - it lists Cardano as one of "the 10 cryptocurrencies with the highest market capitalisation" - it describes the workings of ada and Cardano - it regards Cardano as notable for several reasons, including: (a) "Cardano aims to improve scalability, security, governance, and interoperability with traditional financial systems and regulations, by learning from and improving on lessons learned in the Bitcoin and Ethereum communities." (b) "What distinguishes Cardano from Ethereum, and from many other cryptocurrencies, is that it is (one of the first) blockchain projects to be developed and designed from a scientific philosophy by a team of leading academics and engineers." (c) Although "Ada can be qualified as a pseudo-anonymous coin", it "is interesting to note however – and as far as we could establish, unparalleled – that know your customer (KYC) standards were applied during the initial offering of Ada."

'A small community of tightly connected editors are responsible for most of the ... information about cryptocurrencies in Wikipedia'
A fascinating article by researchers from City University, the University of Copenhagen, the British Library and University College London. This finding chimes with my experience over the past 18 months in trying to establish how 3 people were able to delete the Cardano page and put in place such draconian rules that any mention of IOHK or Cardano can be deleted within minutes as 'spam'. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fbloc.2019.00012/full


 * lol, Frontiers is a predatory open-source publisher on the WP:CITEWATCH list of journals not to use in Wikipedia - David Gerard (talk) 12:27, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Hello David Gerard. I was unaware of any Wikipedia blacklist on this journal. However, the WP:CITEWATCH page is not a “list of journals not to use in Wikipedia”, as you suggest, but indicates those where caution may be needed. The text states that the Frontiers titles are "hit-and-miss" and to "evaluate on a case by case basis". I had checked out the authors. Baronchelli is researching at City and UCL. He has been published in journals such as Science, Nature Human Behaviour and Trends in Cognitive Sciences. He has a h-index of 40, which potentially indicates an "outstanding scientist". It is Baronchelli's first publication by Frontiers in Blockchain and I would be surprised if he has ever heard of the Wikipedia list. He has reviewed for Frontiers in Blockchain. I would think the journal was chosen because it suited the topic, is fast to publish, and its editorial board includes Christopher Clack, a UCL prof who specialises in computable contracts and has worked with ISDA.IOHKwriter (talk) 17:39, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

International and Wikipedia sites that have a Cardano page
These pages have been up for several years, so the references and content may be suitable for reusing.

The Netherlands: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardano_(cryptovaluta-platform)

Germany https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardano_(Kryptow%C3%A4hrung)

Portugal https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardano_(Criptomoeda)

Italy https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardano_(criptovaluta)

Russia https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardano

Japan https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%AB%E3%83%AB%E3%83%80%E3%83%8E_(%E3%83%96%E3%83%AD%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%83%81%E3%82%A7%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3)

Roumania https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardano_(platform%C4%83)

Estonia https://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardano_(platvorm)

Also, Investopaedia https://www.investopedia.com/cardano-definition-4683961 IOHKwriter (talk) 10:17, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Other language Wikipedias are independent projects with their own standards. User generated sources are not reliable sources. Furthermore, Investopedia is completely unrelated to us and directory listings do not demonstrate notability.  Ian.thomson (talk) 10:34, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Ian.thomson for clarifying on Investopedia. 20 minutes for a recent change to be commented on; 17 minutes for this one. This page really is under surveillance. I make no claims about the Wikipedia sites apart from 'the references and content may be suitable for reusing'. I think that's clear. I do, however, think the German model gets away from the subjective 'notability' that you use on US Wikipedia. It lists the leading cryptos, and so gets away from the 'small community of tightly connected editors' problem and having to decide that Titcoin is notable.

New sources
Blankenhorn, D. (2018) "10 Cryptocurrency Alternatives to Bitcoin" Kiplinger.com, April 13 https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/investing/T038-S001-10-cryptocurrency-alternatives-to-bitcoin/index.html

Charles Hoskinson interview "Ex-Ethereum CEO: Foundation Should Not Intervene to Save The DAO" https://www.coindesk.com/former-ethereum-ceo-foundation-not-gotten-involved-dao-crisis. CoinDesk, Jun 23, 2016 at 19:58 UTC

In 2018, The Economist ran two articles that discussed alt coins: 'Central-bank digital currencies: Proceed with caution', 17 March 2018, p32. This mentioned 4 coins: Bitcoin, Ethereum, XRP, Stellar, Cardano. 'Crypto-currencies: Beyond bitcoin', 13 January 2018, p35. This discusses new coins and after dismissing most as 'no more than curiosities' focuses on the biggest of the 40 coins with a market capitalisation of more than $1bn. It starts with smart contract coins, Ethereum ($137bn), Cardano ($20bn) and Neo ($8bn); then Ripple ($78bn), Monero ($6bn), Zcash ($2bn), Stellar ($9.8bn). All these cryptos are on WP except Cardano. These demonstrate the adoption of Cardano in financial markets. Weiss, a financial ratings agency, ranks Cardano as one of the best for both technology and its risk/reward balance. 'Cryptocurrencies: Who's In First?' - source: news channel on Nasdaq exchange; and 'Weiss Crypto Ratings Puts Bitcoin Aside EOS and XRP in Annual Outlook' - Cointelegraph cited on W in other crypto stories. link to news story added IOHKwriter (talk) 10:24, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

'EF Hutton researchers will undertake a review of some of the largest cryptocurrencies by market cap, specifically Bitcoin (BTC), Ethereum (ETH), Ripple (XRP), EOS (EOS), Litecoin (LTC), Bitcoin Cash (BCH) and Cardano (ADA), awarding each a one to five-star rating.' Source: 'Stock Brokerage EF Hutton Rates Cryptocurrencies to Help Clients Track ‘Rapid Developments’' - Cointelegraph cited on W in other crypto stories. EF Hutton is one of the largest US stock brokers IOHKwriter (talk) 11:18, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Switzerland’s main stock exchange, SIX, lists the world’s first exchange-traded products (ETPs) tracking cryptocurrencies: ‘composed of up to [the] top 10 crypto assets ranked by inflation-adjusted market capitalization’. All assets in the index were approved by SIX for the ETP. It started with Cardano among its eight crypto assets. 'Amun lists crypto basket tracker on SIX Swiss Exchange'. Source: Institutional Asset Manager, cited on W for other pages. Link to news story added IOHKwriter (talk) 10:18, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

CMC Markets, which provides spread-betting and contracts for difference, has launched an emerging crypto index of seven coins includes Cardano. 'CMC Markets to launch range of crypto indices' Source: Institutional Asset Manager, cited on W for other pages. Link to news story added IOHKwriter (talk) 10:18, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

The InterContinental Exchange has identified 58 cryptos for coverage in its data feeds, including Cardano). Eleven of English Wikipedia’s list are not included by the ICE. 'Owner of New York Stock Exchange Adds Dozens of Virtual Currencies to Crypto Data Feed' link to news story added IOHKwriter (talk) 10:18, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

'Charles Hoskinson to Launch Security Token Blockchain With Polymath'. Source: Cointelegraph cited on W in other crypto stories. IOHKwriter (talk) 10:18, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

The 2019 subscriber report on cryptocurrencies and exchanges by Acquisdata identifies 10 ‘leading’ cryptocurrencies, including Cardano. (Cryptocurrency and Exchanges, 24 June 2019)

'The 10 Most Important Cryptocurrencies Other Than Bitcoin' Investopedia cited by W in other finance stories.

Cardano cited as ‘notable’ in US Senate. In his testimony on behalf of the Blockchain Association to the US Senate committee on banking at a hearing entitled ‘Examining regulatory frameworks for digital currencies and blockchain’, Jeremy Allaire, a co-founder and chairman of the crypto platform Circle, said: ‘The most well-known and popular blockchain platform is the Ethereum blockchain ... Other notable examples include EOS, Tezos, Tron, NEO, Cardano, and Algorand.’IOHKwriter (talk) 09:34, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * That's what we call an "in-passing mention" that doesn't contribute a thing to establishing notability. --Randykitty (talk) 09:46, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I would agree with you if we were talking about a newspaper report about price movements, but this is a statement by a leading figure in the crypto world on behalf of The Blockchain Association. It is a 5000+ word statement to a US Senate committee that is examining the potential for regulating blockchains and cryptocurrencies. It does add something: that Cardano is one of just six blockchains that he identifies as 'notable'. It is a notable (as accepted by W) person giving evidence to a notable (as accepted by W) committee that Cardano is notable. That would seem to carry weight against your opinion that Cardano is not notable


 * None of these are mainstream Reliable Sources, and this should be reasonably obvious. See also No original research - David Gerard (talk) 06:24, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
 * None of this is original research; I have added web sources with a statement as to their reliability. Some sources are not freely available on the web, such as the Acquisdata reports IOHKwriter (talk) 10:47, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * by the way, how come you don't have a conflict of interest here? Aren't you just finding a way to plug your book?

Of the six blockchains talked about in this report to the US Senate committee, Cardano is the only one not given coverage on the US English version of Wikipedia. It is the only blockchain where sanctions are so severe that it cannot even be mentioned IOHKwriter (talk) 21:41, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

'IOHK Launches Cardano Blockchain; Ada Now Trading on Bittrex' October 02, 2017, by Amy Castor, Bitcoin Magazine. Quoted on Nasdaq.com. https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/iohk-launches-cardano-blockchain-ada-now-trading-bittrex  IOHKwriter (talk) 09:21, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

EToro adds Cardano: "Trading platform eToro adds support for Tezos amid price surge". https://breakermag.com/people-in-30-u-s-states-can-now-copy-other-investors-crypto-trades-on-etoro/

2019 analysis of Switzerland's "Crypto Valley" identifies six "unicorns" – companies valued at more than $1 billion: "The prior [2018] Crypto Valley Top 50 Report counted four Unicorns. Among those are three of the world’s biggest protocol projects: Ethereum Foundation, Cardano and Dfinity Foundation..." The fourth is Bitmain. IOHKwriter (talk) 09:03, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

In 2019, the Nasdaq exchange began quoting bitcoin, Ethereum and Ripple prices and has now started quoting ada prices

"Two cryptos Weiss claims are better than Bitcoin": Crypto ratings company believes Bitcoin’s technology is prehistoric compared with these two competitors (Fantom and Cardano)

"Cardano: the true potential of crypto for the real world" Cardano founder Charles Hoskinson likes to say he's building a system to last 100 years. Source: Benzinga.com cited in 100+ other Wiki articles IOHKwriter (talk) 22:54, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

US crypto exchange Binance, "the biggest cryptocurrency exchange in the world in terms of trading volume", starts taking deposits for 5 alt coins in preparation for trading: "Binance US opens deposits for ADA, BAT, ETC, XLM, ZRX"

New Balance, "one of the world's major sports footwear and apparel manufacturers" to quote Wikipedia, to use Cardano blockchain to track top-range trainers: "New Balance to Use Cardano Blockchain to Confirm Product Authenticity" IOHKwriter (talk) 09:02, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

"If Bitcoin Fails, Crypto Industry in for a Bad Time: Cardano Founder" Coin Telegraph interview with Charles HoskinsonIOHKwriter (talk) 15:58, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Notable founder: Charles Hoskinson has 113.7K followers on Twitter; Jimmy Wales has 145.6k. Ethereum founder Vitalik (879.3K). Dean Baquet, executive editor of The New York Times, has 26.3K. Twitter founders' followers: Jack Dorsey (4.2m), Noah Glass (5k), Biz Stone (2.8m), and Evan Williams (12.9K). Bestselling author Robert Harris (72.8K). Oracle founder Larry Ellison (104.9K) IOHKwriter (talk) 17:26, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Interview with Hoskinson by a source regarded as trusted on Wikipedia: Morris, D.M., (2019) “Boxing With Shadows: Is Charles Hoskinson His Own Worst Enemy?” Breakermag.com, 8 April https://breakermag.com/boxing-with-shadows-is-charles-hoskinson-his-own-worst-enemy/ IOHKwriter (talk) 11:37, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Hoskinson cited in and used to illustrate Breaker article https://breakermag.com/bulls-bills-and-blue-sky-thinking-how-wyoming-became-the-blockchain-state/

Cardano is one of 12 cryptos included in an April 1 spoof on Linkedin. https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6518440110470492161/ Story reported on Breaker https://breakermag.com/crypto-news-is-so-surreal-these-7-april-fools-jokes-almost-ring-true/

Binance.US Expands Support for Dogecoin Binance.US launched, initially offering trading for Bitcoin, Ether, XRP, Bitcoin Cash, Litecoin, Binance Coin and Tether. On Sept. 24, it added Cardano (ADA), Basic Attention Token, Ethereum Classic, Stellar and 0x. On Oct 24, it announced support for Dogecoin. That's 13 coins; all covered by Wikipedia, except Cardano (why am I not surprised?) IOHKwriter (talk) 18:49, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

How secure is Cardano? Undersearcher analysis on Medium.com IOHKwriter (talk) 23:23, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Cardano one of '20 major crypto assets' accepted as payment by Travala Travala for travel through Booking.com IOHKwriter (talk) 23:23, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

'... prominent ICO-funded projects like Cardano and IOTA' https://breakermag.com/in-ico-investing-winners-and-losers-couldnt-be-further-apart/

Cardano Foundation launches AdaPay, an ada payment gateway for shops IOHKwriter (talk) 12:30, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Academic analysis of PoS algorithms, including Cardano's Ouroboros "Proof-of-Stake Consensus Mechanisms for Future Blockchain Networks: Fundamentals, Applications and Opportunities" IOHKwriter (talk) 12:30, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Sp8de acknowledges in its whitepaper that development depends on the Cardano blockchain, specifically completion of the smart contracts phase. Charles Hoskinson has stated that Cardano has no relationship with Sp8de. IOHKwriter (talk) 15:42, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Adopters of Ouroboros include the Coda cryptocurrency (https://codaprotocol.com/docs/architecture/proof-of-stake/), Concordium (https://concordium.com/) and Web 3 Foundation (https://web3.foundation/) IOHKwriter (talk) 12:58, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Abra wallet covers 30 coins, including Cardano. Beginners Guide to Abra Crypto App & Mobile Wallet: Complete Review (Blockonomi) IOHKwriter (talk) 19:15, 9 January 2020 (UTC)IOHKwriter (talk) 09:50, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

The Everything Guide to Investing in Cryptocurrency by Ryan Derousseau (Simon & Schuster, 2019): 'Cardano is developed with scientific rigor in mind. It’s the college professor to Ripple’s entrepreneur.'IOHKwriter (talk) 18:37, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Learn Ethereum: The Collection (Skvorc et al, SitePoint, 2018): 'Rather than developers working mostly on their own, the concepts are peer-reviewed, making sure the ideas implemented have been reviewed and proven to work before being implemented.'

R3 Corda for Architects and Developers by Debajani Mohanty (Apress, 2019) 'Cardano is a decentralized blockchain platform … that works on a PoS algorithm and provides a base for the cryptocurrency ada.'IOHKwriter (talk) 18:37, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Emurgo runs coffee tracking pilot in Indonesia (unclear whether it uses Cardano). https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Technology/Blockchain-set-to-power-Asia-s-farmersIOHKwriter (talk) 08:46, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

"Digital banking trends of 2020" by Professor Aggelos Kiayias, Chief Scientist at IOHK, 15 April. https://www.globalbankingandfinance.com/digital-banking-trends-of-2020/ IOHKwriter (talk) 17:47, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

IOHK and the University of Edinburgh were among 10 organisations awarded funding under the Priviledge project (2018-20), which is part of the European Union's €80 billion Horizon 2020 research and innovation programme. The aim of the project is to "develop and advance techniques that enhance privacy, anonymity and efficient decentralized consensus for blockchains and distributed ledgers technologies". In 2019, the project's website published a joint paper by Edinburgh and IOHK researchers, "Timed Signatures and Zero-Knowledge Proofs: Timestamping in the Blockchain Era" by Aydin Abadi, Michele Ciampi, Aggelos Kiayias and Vassilis Zikas. An impact assessment led by Bjo ̈rn Tackmann of IBM and published by the European Commission listed 2 published papers and 2 preprints by Edinburgh/IOHK. https://ec.europa.eu/research/participants/documents/downloadPublic?documentIds=080166e5c558cb56&appId=PPGMS https://cyberwatching.eu/sites/default/files/priviledge-onepager-uc4.pdf https://priviledge-project.eu/ https://www.ed.ac.uk/informatics/blockchain/news/priviledge-privacy-in-distributed-ledgers IOHKwriter (talk) 17:03, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Interview in Coinmarketcap's "Crypto Titans" series: "Charles Hoskinson on the Power of Crypto, Working From Home, and Mongolian Hunting Falcons". https://blog.coinmarketcap.com/2020/05/11/charles-hoskinson-on-the-power-of-crypto-working-from-home-and-mongolian-hunting-falcons-2/IOHKwriter (talk) 17:12, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Coindesk article selects the 50 "most innovative, consequential and viable projects". Cardano listed at 40. https://www.coindesk.com/the-coindesk-50 IOHKwriter (talk) 17:17, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Chalmers university sets up a free online seminar series covering functional programming. Speakers include Philip Wadler, Professor of Theoretical Computer Science at the University of Edinburgh and Senior Research Fellow at IOHK. http://chalmersfp.org/ IOHKwriter (talk) 17:27, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Not regarded as reliable by W: https://cointelegraph.com/news/cardano-is-working-on-a-microchip-that-would-give-crypto-a-cash-like-experience

Not regarded as reliable by W: Cardano Development Company to Join Hyperledger Project & W3C. https://cointelegraph.com/news/cardano-development-company-to-join-hyperledger-project-w3c

Bingsheng Zhang1, Roman Oliynykov2, and Hamed Balogun "A Treasury System for Cryptocurrencies: Enabling Better Collaborative Intelligence", NDSS 2020. https://www.ndss-symposium.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ndss2019_02A-2_Zhang_paper.pdf https://www.ndss-symposium.org/ndss-paper/a-treasury-system-for-cryptocurrencies-enabling-better-collaborative-intelligence/ IOHKwriter (talk) 16:40, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Vint Cerf announces his talk at Cardano summit (July 2-3)IOHKwriter (talk) 14:30, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Aaron Hurst (2020) "Blockchain use cases within transport and logistics", Information Age, 24 July. https://www.information-age.com/blockchain-use-cases-within-transport-logistics-123490525/IOHKwriter (talk) 09:17, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Batchimeg. B (2020) "Training under way to prepare globally competent blockchain developers", Montsame, Ulaanbaatar, 22 July, https://www.montsame.mn/en/read/231778 IOHKwriter (talk) 10:54, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Philip Wadler, one of the creators of Haskell, has described working on IOHK's Plutus smart contracts language, http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/topics/iohk.html, resulting in a paper, Unraveling Recursion: Compiling an IR with Recursion to System F, http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/papers/mpc-2019/unraveling.pdf IOHKwriter (talk) 12:33, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

IOHK engineers alter Glasgow Haskell Compiler to improve handling of 64-bit and larger numbers. Improving Sylvain Henry (2020) "Haskell’s big numbers support", Haskell Weekly, issue 222. https://haskellweekly.news/issue/222.html IOHKwriter (talk) 12:49, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Bitfinex launches staking rewards for Cardano, 6 October 2020, Hedge Week - a specialist subscription newsletter launched in 2003. cited in a dozen other hedge fund articles on Wiki2A00:23C4:A7:2301:F811:411D:AAE0:DC84 (talk) 15:04, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Conference reference
I am confused about revert https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cardano_%28cryptocurrency_platform%29&type=revision&diff=985175380&oldid=985168383. The reason states "sourced solely to a single crypto conference paper, not even peer reviewed". The conference in question, CRYPTO, is one of the few top conferences in the field of cryptography. Are papers accepted to this conference not considered peer reviewed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.156.102.251 (talk) 19:16, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Apologies, I thought it was crypto as in cryptocurrency, not as in actual cryptography. In general, conference proceedings aren't peer-reviewed papers as such - they're selected by abstract and names - David Gerard (talk) 21:17, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Addition of External Links (request)
Inclusion of external links possible? External links


 * Project website
 * Cardano Foundation website
 * Cardano Block Explorer
 * Messari Profile


 * ✅ Added the single main URL (per WP:ELNO) - David Gerard (talk) 20:36, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Root9B Audit
-Thank you David for the quick response on the prior edit suggestion!

Suggested text addition under "Technical aspects":

On March 5th 2020, the audit company root9B (R9B) published the results of a static Software Trust Review of a snapshot of IOHK repositories, broken into two phases. R9B audit sought to identify vulnerabilities that may compromise the confidentiality, integrity or availability of software. Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 22:07, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
 * ❌ Needs coverage in an independent, third party reliable source - David Gerard (talk) 22:48, 25 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Is an independent audit not implicitly considered third party & reliable? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blockchainus Maximus (talk • contribs) 23:04, 25 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Er, no? What's the evidence they're anyone? And your answer implies the answer is "no, there is no coverage in independent RSes" - David Gerard (talk) 00:49, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, would agree with you. Will try to find better source material when making future suggestions, thank you. :) --Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 10:02, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Development section
As far as I can tell, no reliable source regarding the Cardano developer environment exists. In other words, under the development section, the paragraph on Marlowe and Plutus might need to be deleted.

NSAdude (talk) 10:31, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Meant to say the section about the developer environment that references an article about Marlowe and Plutus might need to be deleted. NSAdude (talk) 10:33, 24 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Cardano's smart contract language provides an integrated development environment for writing both on and off-chain code in a single code base. This allows developers to run end-to-end tests on their program without leaving the integrated development environment or deploying their code.[15][12][16]


 * Smart contracts made in Solidity for the Ethereum Virtual Machine can be translated with a compiler and thus also run on the Cardano Virtual Machine.[17][irrelevant citation][unreliable source?][18][non-primary source needed]

First paragraph should be in future tense, demo is available, but no real testnet is running...

Second project (EVM compatibility) has been paused, discussions are being made about resuming it, but it is still at least a year from being available on mainnet, thus I would delete it completelly...

On the other hand, I do believe that both Plutus and Marlowe should be noted in the article as "comming to the platform"...

M4r3k (talk) 17:02, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be better if we talk in the development section about the roadmap, the major delays the project hit, and what has actually been delivered this far, instead of forward looking statement that infact pretent to be current order of things, NSAdude, GSS? I am willing to make the effort and jump on a call to discuss how we should re-write that section if, after comming to consensus you guys back me on it, obviously after your review...

M4r3k (talk) 18:49, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Please stop repetitive interruption
- Please stop repetitive interruption of my recent work on the aticle Cardano (cryptocurrency platform). I got requested to seek for consensus but the within implied disagreement is baseless. I did objective substantial improvements and made the previous state of this artice much more tidy and valuably in the last couple of days. Still my work is getting interrputed and removed. I am willed to stop editing for some time to let the state settle if it helps but please revert the undoing of my work. I find myself in a type of edit war but just want to make the article to be graspable for the layman: i want to help to make it readable for the ordinary person and i want it to reach a state of clear arrangements and order. This article will get complex, because Cardano is a 'cryptocurrency platform' and therefore a whole ecosystem. So there is a lot of work to do.

07:48, 27 October 2020 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cardano_(cryptocurrency_platform)&diff=985671930&oldid=985628955

11:45, 27 October 2020 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cardano_(cryptocurrency_platform)&diff=985693220&oldid=985692021

13:33, 27 October 2020 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cardano_(cryptocurrency_platform)&diff=985704830&oldid=985704549

Thank you for your patience. Kuckuckz (talk) 17:07, 27 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello on your talk page you are asking me to find consensus here on the article-talk page. I am here, seeking for consensus. What are your exact points, why are you deleting my work? How should i edit it, so you do not delete it anymore? Please tell me the position. The complete part about the protocol Ouroborus is only describing how the current protocol, 'Hydra' evolved in the past.
 * Than i did the headlines 'Catalyst' and 'Atala' because some of the content is arrangeable with that topics. Both are direct results or parts of Cardano and Atala is built on Cardano. I want to get structure and content in this article. If you tell me your exact points, why are you deleting my work, i can undo it for you. But i can see no reason to delete most of my work like it never existed! If you are deleting something please tell me why and reasonable facts, so i can correct it.Kuckuckz (talk) 07:38, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

✅ third-party opinion helped me, i apologizeKuckuckz (talk) 19:32, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

A note for all new editors
Please read the provisions of WP:GS/Crypto - particularly the provisions against revert-warring - David Gerard (talk) 12:37, 27 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the pointers :) Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 14:28, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. Kuckuckz (talk) 17:07, 27 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Seems your admin notification backfired a little xD Unable to make edits, will make suggestions here though in future for consensus. Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 14:29, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

United States Senate Testimony
In the introduction perhaps a clarification as to Cardano's (broader) purpose:

During a meeting at the United States Senate, under the committee on banking, housing and urban affairs, notable blockchains, including Cardano, were deemed to have a broader scope than purely digital currencies. The Cardano platform, and others, seek to build apps with financial assets on top. These platforms aim to form a new infrastructure layer, providing a method of storing and exchanging data, facilitating transactions and executing contracts in a decentralized, tamper-proof and private manner.

Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 23:14, 25 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Was it covered in a third-party RS? That is, is there outside evidence this is noteworthy for Wikipedia purposes? - David Gerard (talk) 00:49, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Is the United States Senate not considered a noteworthy third-party RS? It is in and of itself a public hearing that is reliable, independent and publishes sources with a reputation for fact checking and accuracy. The members speaking are not linked to Cardano project. They have an oath based on the constitution when speaking. The source material, as with most hearings, is available to (and meant for) consumption by the public. My apologies for any mistakes made - a little new to wiki as you may have gathered ;) Other related sources:


 * ❌. A Senate hearing transcript is a primary source. Also, Cardano is only listed as one of many cryptocurrency platforms, so it's not exactly noteworthy enough to be included here. Perhaps the more general information could go on the cryptocurrency article. ◢  Ganbaruby!   (Say hi!) 13:09, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi Ganbaruby :) Thank you for posting the information to learning more about how to properly edit on my page, I will definitely take a look into it to try to improve. Indeed it is listed as one of many and not exclusively - if it is considered a primary source would it also mean it is unable to be used for the more general cryptocurrency article? Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 14:45, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia's definition of primary: 'original materials that are close to an event, and are often accounts written by people who are directly involved'. How is Cardano close to the transcript of a statement by an blockchain industry representative to a Senate committee hearing? There are thousands of cryptos, Wikipedia lists 30, but he picks out seven to describe as 'notable' and mentions Libra. Also, how can all 13 sources in an article about an academic – including the Financial Times and academic proceedings – be dismissed as 'entirely PRIMARY'.IOHKwriter (talk) 11:49, 29 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Indeed - it is what I was wondering myself and the reason the source seemed relevant in the first place. However, apparently hearings are classified as "unreliable"/ primary sources despite being, by necessity, derivative of a primary source... there would be no hearing and nothing to talk about otherwise xD. Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 14:33, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Cardano sources & extended confirmed
Posted these links on Flippy's page as well but: Since I can no longer make any edits I have one or two sources that are perhaps useful: (I do realize there may only be a couple here of real interest/high quality sources - was not planning on using them all but reviewing them to see which are relevant/applicable) Sorry I can no longer help as much as I would like - I am a new user - have quite a way till 500 edits... will post occasionally if I find new source material / think edits are necessary.

Links:
 * https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/05/how-icos-setting-the-vc-world-ablaze-work.html
 * https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/blockchain-takes-the-stage-at-flagship-cryptography-conference-in-israel-2018-05-02
 * https://web.archive.org/web/20181226035238/https://iohk.io/docs/press/The%20Times%20UK%20coverage.pdf
 * https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Cryptocurrencies/Startups-push-blockchain-beyond-cryptocurrency
 * https://web.archive.org/web/20181208200838/http://www.most.gov.et/training
 * https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/cardanos-ouroboros-proving-proof-stake-can-work-wild-1663150
 * https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/it/Documents/financial-services/Deloitte_Blockchain_galaxy.pdf
 * https://www.nau.ch/news/digital/die-cardano-foundation-und-coti-lancieren-adapay-65620864
 * https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-magnet_crypto-foundations-continue-to-thrive-in-switzerland/45100304
 * https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cardano-announces-working-partnership-pwc-200049096.html
 * https://everipedia.org/wiki/lang_en/cardano-cryptocurrency
 * https://everipedia-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/NewlinkFiles/17038642/3c284___cardano-cryptocurrency/rival-digital-currencies-nip-at-bitcoin-cardano-me.png
 * https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/baby-altcoins-leading-crypto-rally-as-bitcoin-goes-mainstream
 * https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.iohk.vitvoting
 * https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/financial-services/pdf/pwc-elwood-annual-crypto-hedge-fund-report-may-2020.pdf
 * https://artificialintelligence-news.com/2020/10/01/full-stack-ai-solution-singularitynet-ethereum-cardano/
 * https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO2008/S00192/moonstake-web-wallet-provides-staking-support-for-cardano-ada.htm
 * Other Sources IOHK: https://iohk.io/en/press/

To include in side banner potentially? Also License as open source?
 * Github: https://github.com/input-output-hk  (inclusion of repositories on side banner)

Another point: Under history can we include Jeremy Wood and Charles... as founder in the first line? Source 11 has a direct reference to him as founder. (https://iohk.io/en/team/)

Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 15:15, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Where are these sources going and for what? Most of these are press releases or unreliable, like Everipedia. Praxidicae (talk) 16:11, 29 October 2020 (UTC)


 * As I stated above - there may only be a couple of use / deemed noteworthy. Instead of deciding that myself it seemed appropriate to do that through means of consensus here as to which ones are useable. I agree Everipedia is indeed not a great source for wiki however in the sources (*of everipedia) there are one or two links that may be of use rather than the article itself. Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 16:21, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Charles H. image use
Would it be possible to place an image under the history section flush left of Charles H.? Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 16:56, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * If there are no copyright problems with this image, it might be appropriate for the article about Hoskinson. I doubt it makes sense here. Retimuko (talk) 17:09, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Concur, Retimuko (talk), the article is about Cardano not one of the founders. -- Devoke water  (talk)  17:14, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Was looking at how the Ethereum page was structured. Although Ethereum is... about Ethereum they have an image of Vitalik. Thanks for the input :) Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 18:30, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Source 25 (help)
"Ethiopian government-Cardano Technology team up on blockchain". East African Business Week. June 11, 2018. Retrieved March 27, 2020. ---> |first=Ruari |last=PhillipsBlockchainus Maximus (talk) 18:57, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , ✅ CaptainEek  Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 19:34, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much CaptainEek  Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓! :)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blockchainus Maximus (talk • contribs) 19:47, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Removing 'exaggeration'
The elements of 'exaggeration' need to be identified and tackled: - Cardano is developed and designed using a scientific philosophy by a leading team of academics and engineers. The involvement of so many academics in Cardano, several of whom are identified as notable by Wikipedia, is a fact that distinguishes it from other blockchains. This has been identified as a 'distinguishing' factor for Cardano by an EU report, as cited in the text. Cardano research has also been backed by EU grants. Google Scholar lists 26 IOHK people, with 63,000 citations between them. Suggested rewording with references: - Cardano is being developed and designed based on a scientific philosophy by "a team of leading academics and engineers".[13][14] These include Philip Wadler, Elias Koutsoupias and Emilios Avgouleas. Academic research into the Ouroboros proof-of-stake protocol that drives Cardano has been funded by the European Union. Elements of this research have been adopted by other blockchains[Cong T. Nguyen, Dinh Thai Hoang And Diep N. Nguyen (2019) “Proof-of-Stake Consensus Mechanisms for Future Blockchain Networks”, https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=8746079] [“Coda protocol”, https://codaprotocol.com/docs/architecture/proof-of-stake] [Concordium White Paper, https://concordium.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Concordium-White-Paper-Vol.-1.0-April-2020-1.pdf] [Eleftherios Kokoris-Kogias, Philipp Jovanovic, Linus Gasser, Nicolas Gailly, Ewa Syta, Bryan Ford (2018) “OmniLedger: A Secure, Scale-Out, Decentralized Ledger via Sharding”, IEEE Symposium on Security and Privacy. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8418625] Duncan Coutts, developer of Haskell Cabal and a Haskell specialist, is the head of engineering on the Cardano project.  IOHKwriter (talk) 12:13, 16 November 2020 (UTC)


 * not on your query, but: Are you from IOHK? If so, you should probably get a more personalised user name - WP:USERNAME bars company names and role accounts. If you're not from IOHK, it may be taken as impersonation. (And if you are from IOHK, a COI declaration would be in order.) - David Gerard (talk) 13:23, 16 November 2020 (UTC)


 * yes. As made obvious on my user page. And you have known this for almost two years when you suggested I work on this page: 'I'd advise you as an IOHK person not to edit directly on the draft - but you should totally be on the talk page'. You have also directly responded to my comments several times before. IOHKwriter (talk) 09:34, 17 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Right, so please work on your username and COI declaration for this article's talk page - David Gerard (talk) 10:10, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I do not understand what you mean by this. Your comment here seems devious in its approach, given the level of our interaction. As I have said before, the name 'IOHKwriter' was chosen to make my affiliation clear to anyone seeing my comments. I have given extra clarification to anyone who has asked.
 * Also, it appears you have tried to discredit my comments by trying to associate me with a sockpuppetry investigation: 'Check also the most substantial contributors to Draft:Cardano (cryptocurrency platform), who also write similarly and - this is the big tell - have a similar WP:IDHT going on'.
 * I think it is you who should be working on a COI declaration IOHKwriter (talk) 12:15, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Posted to Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard for additional administrator opinions - David Gerard (talk) 14:59, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
 * In all fairness, surely you yourself (David) could also be perceived as having a conflict of interest though. I couldn't help but notice you have written a book against cryptocurrencies/blockchains? Surely this is a conflict of interest when editing cryptocurrency pages? As long as IOHK is factual with good referencing, honest and doesn't push false information it doesn't seem to be an issue... Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 16:32, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * If you can find that in WP:COI, feel free to make an edits-based case and take it to WP:COIN - David Gerard (talk) 18:01, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * No, not at all - I think your edits are reasonable and useful so I sincerely thank you for that. Was merely pointing out that you seem to be in a similar situation to IOHK from a purely objective perspective that is all. IOHK should be judged upon their edits and merit - so far I can only see a well balanced attempt to remain objective and impartial having read some of IOHKs suggestions as sources are always provided. Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 16:37, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Minor edits

 * In the first line under history would it be appropriate to write: " 2015 and was launched in 2017 by Jeremy Wood and Charles Hoskinson, " (currently source 11 has direct reference to this as Jeremy is also a founder -   https://iohk.io/en/team/ )
 * Could we change "boardroom brawl" to "dispute" - makes the page less sensationalist.
 * Github repository in side banner - https://github.com/input-output-hk : Consistent with every other "crypto" page.
 * White paper side banner - https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/889.pdf (consistency with other similar pages + foundation of Cardano protocol)
 * additional block explorer link side banner - https://adaex.org/
 * side banner -> Source model = Open source
 * side banner -> original author = Charles H. & Jeremy Wood
 * change one line of puffery (despite being a direct quote from the EU?) -> Cardano is developed and designed using a scientific philosophy by a team of academics and engineers.[13][14] (removing "leading" removes the embellishment of those working on the project. Apart from this I cannot see how this is anything but factual, accurate and relevant since it is not a completed project yet and will be continuously improved/"work in progress" for the coming years. Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 11:52, 31 October 2020 (UTC)


 * I am sorry to bother you but perhaps you could help with one or two of these small edits CaptainEek  Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓?  I was also wondering what could potentially be considered puffery in your opinion so that we can work on removing the banner warning from the page. Thank you for your help :) Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 19:02, 4 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The last paragraph is largely primary-sourced puffery and press release reprints - David Gerard (talk) 14:25, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: per WP:NOTPROMO [[User:Eggishorn|Eggishorn ]] (talk) (contrib) 06:20, 18 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry but why are all the minor edits above not relevant? The first is most definitely relevant - you have to at least (at bare minimum) get the names of the founders correct... The white paper, github links and banner information is also consistent with other "crypto projects" such as bitcoin and ethereum... Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 16:26, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. [[User:Eggishorn|Eggishorn ]] (talk) (contrib) 18:03, 6 December 2020 (UTC)


 * I did. Sources are noted in two of the bullets above (that are already included in the page). Then there was a bit of semantics which was addressed by a user (thank you) and the additional links speak for themselves (was simply trying to be consistent with other pages produced by wikipedia with those additions : namely the Bitcoin and Ethereum pages.B_Maximus (talk) 09:14, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Not reliable sources. Please read, understand, and follow the Core Content Policies and WP:NOTPROMO.  The incessant promotional requests here highlight the reason that WP:GS/Crypto is necessary. We do not make any attempt to get one crypto article to follow another.  We reflect what independent sources say.  In other words, the attempt to get Cardano to be similarly-covered here as Bitcoin and Ethereum are is backwards. If Cardano achieves public notice like those two have done and that is reflected in outside sources, then the article will eventually match the others.  Not before. [[User:Eggishorn|Eggishorn ]] (talk) (contrib) 17:59, 7 December 2020 (UTC)


 * So you don't consider source [11] above (Forbes Magazine) reliable? The inclusion of the IOHK link was as supplement to prove the point that this article doesn't even get the basics right (namely the two founders...). How is it incessant? I am attempting to try to get the founders both included in the article - how difficult is that xD I didn't realize it would be such a struggle hahah Founders not correct? Ok, lets sort it. Done. The inclusion of the other links was and is in-line with other pages what can I say... If you don't think they apply here for some arbitrary reason ok then. The inclusion of the basic characteristics (open source/authors correct) is really not asking for much... The last puffery bullet was regarding semantics and attempting to make it LESS promotional. I must add that since these "minor edits" are already over a month old David G has informed me an entire para may* need to be re-written and is being worked on in the talk comments below I believe. Lastly, in no way am I attempting to get ADA the same "coverage" as bitcoin as you are correct there is simply not the prerequisite source material and for the foreseeable future won't be. My request above was highly highly specific and pertained only to the github, block explorer & white paper inclusion (as in BTC,ETH pages...) nothing more. Bob (talk) 19:33, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Additional sentence under "Technical aspects"
I was wondering if it were possible to include a sentence on Cardano's energy consumption? This is very notable considering Bitcoins energy use (it is also listed as a criticism (section 6.2) on the Bitcoin wiki) and is also directly related to the proof of stake technical aspect already mentioned.

Placement could be in the first para of technical aspects:
 * Due to Cardano's protocol being based on proof of stake the subsequent energy requirements to run the blockchain are significantly less than those associated with proof of work chains such as Bitcoin. Cardano's energy consumption is estimated to be 6 GWh of power whilst Bitcoin consumes as much power as Chile (77,78 TWh).

Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/05/bitcoin-btc-surge-renews-worries-about-its-massive-carbon-footprint.html#:~:text=Hoskinson%20says%20the%20cardano%20cryptocurrency,fraction%20of%20bitcoin's%20energy%20consumption

Another source mentioning the same (environmental impact + mention of Cardano): https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/bitcoin-environment-mining-energy-cryptocurrency-b1800938.html?utm

Thank you for considering the additional information.Bob (talk) 11:25, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for the ping CaptainEek  Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓  - what are your thoughts? :) Bob (talk) 20:33, 12 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Seems reasonable to me. CaptainEek  Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 23:37, 12 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Hello, thank you very much for your quick response! Since the article is extended protected I do not have the requisite edits to make changes as of yet - if you are in agreement with the wording would you be able to copy / paste the sentence (below includes sourcing)? Bob (talk) 10:18, 13 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Due to Cardano's protocol being based on proof of stake the subsequent energy requirements to run the blockchain are significantly less than those associated with proof of work chains such as Bitcoin. Cardano's energy consumption is estimated to be 6 GWh of power whilst Bitcoin consumes as much power as Chile (77,78 TWh). Bob (talk) 10:18, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done CaptainEek  Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 16:38, 13 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much CaptainEek  Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓!  Bob (talk) 16:56, 13 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I have removed the specific numbers, as they lack enough context to be informative and could be misleading. The specific energy consumption is not as simple as A:B. The comparison between Cardano and Bitcoin only makes sense if we accept that they share similar scope, scale, purpose, transaction rates, etc. This is an unstated assumption that is not supported by sources, so this comparison is more confusing than helpful. Any claims about efficiency require subjective presumptions about the intended purpose of both of these cryptocurrencies, as well as their scalability, and this definition should come from a source other than Hoskinson himself. Grayfell (talk) 23:37, 14 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Pinged wrong user, apologies. Why remove the number coming from Cambridge University about Bitcoin? Does this not qualify as an objective number for BTC? PoS is less energy consuming... that is one of the main reasons it was developed. Evan hal finney (one of the closest to satoshi nakamoto if he wasn't SN himself) raised the issue of CO2 production of BTC after wide scale implementation... Ouroboros info which you have also removed details how it is 100s if not 1000s of times more energy efficient than BTC. A simple calculation of current network transactions vs active nodes supports Hoskinson's claim - free for anyone to check. It is nothing to do with subjectivity but what the current energy requirements of the systems are... this "similar scope, scale, purpose, transaction rates, etc" doesn't make sense - else you are saying because they aren't equal systems we can never compare their energy consumption... What?! Of course you can compare them BTC uses as much as Norway (according to Cambridge) whilst Cardano does not. It's like comparing the engine of a fiat panda and a ferrari - BTC was not BUILT for high tx and its POW system made high energy consumption inevitable. Cardano's POS system was BUILT for high tx and low energy consumption. Ignoring and removing these details does not make sense. Further... David already changed the sentence to "hoskinson claims" which is more than fair and makes it explicitly clear.


 * Just read your snarky comment saying that the sentence was a "promotional filler". This is seriously subjective on your part - who thinks this is promotional, this is about energy use with data from Cambridge University!?? I am using genuine articles as per wiki guidelines and you STILL remove the info just because "meh" you don't agree? What are your thoughts on this - am I the only one here who thinks this makes no sense?


 * (In no way do I want to include this but for your own understanding skip to last sentence if you want to skip the working) For your own personal context on what you regard as "promotional filler" let's assumer you are running Cardano node on your PC (very common & what the node software was made for). This costs ~100wh for your PC, lets say you have a really beefy PC - 150wh (although it has been demonstrated a node can be run on 4 wh). You run this 24/7 and as per https://pooltool.io/ it can be seen there are ~1600 nodes currently. Since the https://cbeci.org/ Cambridge value is ~120Twh annually we must multiply by 365. Thus 120 Twh/ (150*24*1600*365) = 57077 roughly ~60,000 times less power. Let's also normalize for current transactions on the network as this determines hash power for BTC, this also doesn't include future "Hydra" implementations/ batch processing on Cardano but hey. Roughly ~30K tx on Cardano currently (https://blockchair.com/cardano) and 330k tx on BTC. 11* more. Let's divide the ~60,000 by 11 to normalize for tx. We get around ~5500 thousand times more efficient. Bob (talk) 09:12, 15 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Literally one hundred percent of your article space edits to Wikipedia to date have been in promotion of Cardano; you should consider that you may not be the best judge of what does and doesn't constitute "promotional filler" when it comes to Cardano - David Gerard (talk) 20:10, 15 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Fancy that, someone editing a page of a topic they are actually interested in. Still doesn't address my above statement though - sources were used as per wiki rules and was removed because of the opinion it was "promotional filler" when those are legitimate numbers from a Cambridge study & representative as per the simple calculation above. edit* Anyway, thank you for the feedback. Will see if I can branch out /add to other pages for a while.Bob (talk) 20:03, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:48, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Cardano Logo.jpg

Use of eprints
Hello :, You removed an e-print saying it was "not showing signs of peer review". A web search should have brought up the peer-reviewed version: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3243734.3243848

This paper was accepted at the ACM CCS conference. There are some conferences where papers are not reviewed - but the ACM CCS is definitely not one of them. As you know, IOHK has a large academic team and submits its papers to bona fide conferences. The ACM reviewing process is based on anonymized submission. If you are unfamiliar with cryptography conferences or cannot find an IOHK paper, I am happy to point you to valid sources.

As you know, the page is under sanction, so I would be grateful if you could reinstate the section linked to the published paper. Thanks for your help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by IOHKwriter (talk • contribs) 14:03, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello :, any chance you have managed to make the above improvement to the page by adding the peer-reviewed paper for the deleted section? IOHKwriter (talk) 17:08, 7 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Indeed, never fully understood why they don't pass as valid sources - I mean it is bizarre wiki seems to prefer some BBC/CNN article than actual scientific references/papers/publications. By the way another way that may be used to include this is through use of secondary sources from what I understand. Quickly searching the article on google scholar shows it is referenced 112 times including springer - 25th European Symposium on Research in Computer Security, ESORICS 2020. Google Scholar → Springer →    Note: I also believe the Deloitte publication (reference 18) also mentions/describes Ouroboros - could also be used as a reference (of course not the same depth as the original article but it mentions core principles I believe: Ctrl f "ouroboros").  Blockchainus Maximus (talk) 15:25, 30 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Even if these were published in more reliable outlets, they would still be WP:PRIMARY sources of limited use. To briefly summarize what I previously said about this same walled-garden of sources at Talk:Proof of stake, all of them would have to be evaluated in context. As has already been explained, none of these curated statistics inherently make a source reliable or unreliable. As for "BBC/CNN", Wikipedia strongly favors independent sources. Grayfell (talk) 20:53, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Just seen this. The source has to be primary because it links to the original academic paper, which is what anyone would expect Wikipedia to do. Not sure what you mean by 'published in more reliable outlets'; what do you suggest is more reliable for computer science than the Association for Computing Machinery? Please add a third-party paper that refers to the primary source; there are dozens listed by Google Scholar. The page is sanctioned so you are one of the few people who can improve this page. Thanks. IOHKwriter (talk) 17:29, 18 January 2021 (UTC)


 * No, it absolutely does not have to be primary. I don't know how I could make this clearer, so please try harder to understand the distinction between primary, secondary, and independent sources. Being cited by another source (in the same walled garden) is not the same as being about that source. To combine unrelated sources to support this point would be WP:SYNTH, which is a form of original research. Our goal is not to publish original research, it is to summarize reliable, independent sources without adding our own novel conclusions. Grayfell (talk) 20:59, 18 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Hello Grayfell, I think we’ve got some crossed wires here (and I do like your Batten illustration). Let’s go back to trying to address the problems with the page. I’d suggest replacing this unclear sentence and the incomplete reference:

It is considered[by whom?] one of the most secure[clarification needed] of existing cryptocurrencies. Rosenbaum, Andrew. "How to invest in cryptocurrencies – part 2 | Cyprus Mail". https://cyprus-mail.com/. Retrieved November 25, 2020. External link in |website= (help)

With this:

The security of Ouroboros has been discussed and compared with other blockchains by academics and media sources.

Deirmentzoglou, E., Papakyriakopoulos, G., and Patsakis, C. (2019) "A Survey on Long-Range Attacks for Proof of Stake Protocols", IEEE Access, vol. 7, pp. 28712-28725. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/8653269.

Duong T., Fan L., Katz J., Thai P., Zhou HS. (2020) “2-hop Blockchain: Combining Proof-of-Work and Proof-of-Stake Securely”, in: Chen L., Li N., Liang K., Schneider S. (eds) Computer Security – ESORICS 2020. Lecture Notes in Computer Science, vol 12309. Springer, Cham. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-030-59013-0_34. Rosenbaum, Andrew (2020) "How to invest in cryptocurrencies – part 2". Cyprus Mail, July 19. https://cyprus-mail.com/2020/07/19/cryptocurrencies-add-value-drive-price/. Retrieved January 19, 2021.

I’m afraid the referencing style is all over the place on the page, so I’ve made these three consistent within themselves. The first reference is freely available online and is a fairly approachable piece. The second has a much stronger academic team, but is not freely available online. The third is just a cleaned up version of the existing newspaper citation. What do you think? IOHKwriter (talk) 19:24, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Reviewing the Cyprus Mail source, I have removed the sentence. It is too vague and too flimsy. I do not consider the proposed replacement to be enough of an improvement to be worth it. Having "been discussed and compared with other blockchains by academics and media sources" is even more vague. It tell readers nothing of value.
 * The two additional sources you have proposed are very poor for this, as well. The first doesn't mention Cardano, and only barely mentions Ouroboros. Using an article about Ouroboros to pad-out the article on Cardano is inappropriate and overly promotional. The second source doesn't even mention Cardano nor does it directly mention Ouroboros! It merely cites other work which uses the name in the title. Most or all of those citations appear to be more niche conference proceedings. Even if these niche publications are usable for specific points (which is not a settled issue) they would be very poor for demonstrating encyclopedic notability. This suggests that you either do not understand WP:SYNTH, or you have not yourself read the source you are proposing. Please remember that this article is not about Ouroboros, and it's not about proof-of-stake, it is about Cardano (cryptocurrency). It is very unlikely that any sources which is not about Cardano would be usable for this article. Exceptions are rare, and they must be uncontroversial or vitally necessary based on a specific policy.
 * To prevent future issues, let me be very clear about this: even if Ouroboros (protocol) is merged to this article, these sources still would not be inherently useful. This is for various reasons. As I've already said, Wikipedia strongly favors independent sources. The purpose of Wikipedia's articles is to neutrally summarize sources, and that means we summarize what the sources are actually saying. We do not add them as decoration to imply to readers that something has significance. Further, a paper cannot be used to demonstrate its own importance. If a paper is worth mentioning, it will be worth mentioning for a reason, and that reason should be based on reliable sources and should be clear to readers. Grayfell (talk) 07:36, 20 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Hello, The article is not well written and is limited in its coverage. Although Wikipedia statistics show the page is well read, the sanctions appear to have prevented people from improving it. I made minimum suggestions to try to improve one aspect. I will try to address the many points you have raised. One of the areas of coverage that is poor is security – which is something people reading an encyclopaedia article about a blockchain would expect to find. I agree the sentence is vague and flimsy, but your deleting it has removed even the weak discussion of security, which at least gave readers somewhere to go to discover more. The Wikipedia proof of stake page says nothing about Cardano and the Ouroboros page itself has been reduced to a stump. The Rosenbaum article states: ‘Cardano’s proof of stake protocol is called Ouroboros and … has also been proven secure’. The additional sources build out on this basic statement to describe the security strategy. IOHKwriter (talk) 15:55, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Ouroboros is fundamental to Cardano; it is the consensus algorithm for the blockchain. The sentence in question is at the end of a paragraph about Ouroboros. The two peer-reviewed papers (not just articles) discuss the security aspects of blockchains. Deirmentzoglou assesses various techniques and section E is devoted to explaining the innovation introduced by Ouroboros. This is far from ‘barely mentioning’ Ouroboros; it is a whole section about it. The paper goes on to compare these techniques. In the conclusion, 3 of the 7 protocols summarized in Table 1 are versions of Ouroboros. Again, this is far from a ‘bare mention’ of Ouroboros. I no longer have access to the Duong paper, so can no longer quote in detail but it broadens the security issue out by bringing in proof of work. A substantial part of the paper is built on Ouroboros theory; which is acknowledged by 3 of the 35 papers cited being specifically about Ouroboros; and 3 others being by Aggelos Kiayias, the leading academic behind Ouroboros and head of research at IOHK (and 2 of these were written with Panagiotakos, a fellow IOHK researcher working on Ouroboros). IOHKwriter (talk) 15:55, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) ‘niche conference proceedings’ – the Deirmentzoglou paper was published in IEEE Access. This is not a conference; it is a notable online academic journal published by the IEEE with broad coverage of science and technology. It has a Wikipedia page, which notes that it won a PROSE best new journal award, and has been cited 103 times on 93 Wikipedia pages on a wide range of subjects. The Duong paper is from conference proceedings in a specialised area, computer security. But on what evidence do you base your negative attitude towards this? The proceedings for the European Symposium on Research in Computer Security (ESORICS) have been published since 1992 by Springer, which appears to be the most widely cited academic publisher: 89,693 times on 53,858 Wikipedia pages. ESORICS describes itself as the ‘premiere European research event in computer security’; it has been ranked at 9th of 47 on the topic by one academic, at 12 of 100+ by another. The 2020 general chair was Steve Schneider, who has a Wikipedia page. 2) encyclopaedic notability: this sentence is not about demonstrating notability; that has already been established. It is about pointing the reader to academic sources where they can learn about its security, which should be covered in the page but is not. There is nothing controversial about the link between Ouroboros and Cardano; it is analogous to that between an engine and a car. So, leading cryptocurrency Wikipedia pages talk about their algorithms, even though the algorithms have substantial pages, whereas the Ouroboros page has limited coverage since being substantially cut back. IOHKwriter (talk) 15:55, 26 January 2021 (UTC)


 * 1) merging Ouroboros: I agree, this would not be suitable. Cardano is in the process of being decentralised and will soon be controlled by stakeholders of the ada cryptocurrency through a network of about 1,000 stake pools; Ouroboros is an academic project led by the University of Edinburgh at its Blockchain Technology Lab (which is funded by IOHK, the UK government’s engineering research council, the EU, Huawei and Intel). Ouroboros is being implemented as code by several blockchain companies and for purposes other than cryptocurrencies. 2) independent sources: both these academic sources are independent of Cardano. 3) summarize the sources: I thought you would not entertain my doing so. 4) ‘a paper cannot be used to demonstrate its own importance’: I’m unsure what paper you’re referring to here, or how you think I am attempting to do this. IOHKwriter (talk) 15:55, 26 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I hope this addresses your concerns. I would ask you to put the sentence back, though please improve the wording (I suggested the minimum I thought feasible). I would suggest new wording: Cardano has been described as “one of the most secure of existing cryptos” [Rosenbaum] with a “sophisticated countermeasure” against long-range attacks built into its Ouroboros consensus protocol, including protection from stake-bleeding and posterior corruption attacks [Deirmentzoglou]. IOHKwriter (talk) 15:55, 26 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Do not refactor comments. Do not inject your own comments into someone else's. This is basically interrupting, and it makes things far too confusing to other readers. Talk pages are intended to be a record of the discussion, so they must be understandable to other readers. As a WP:SPA with a conflict of interest, you are still expected to follow Wikipedia's guidelines. Further, your comment was 5,718 bytes, which is much longer than it needed to be. This is a volunteer project, so please be more succinct out of courtesy. You are requesting that we spend our free time on this, and nobody is obligated to respond to you.
 * Skimming your reply with the time I am willing to spend, your proposal violates WP:NOTADVERTISING and is inappropriate. I will also repeat that sources must be about Cardano to be useful. Predictions about the future of Cardano must also be supported by reliable, independent sources. Your assumptions about the future of Cardano cannot be used to imply that some bit of information has significance, as this is WP:SYNTH. I have already tried to explain this to you twice, and I don't know how to make it any clearer. No source is encyclopedically significant by itself. It is a source for information about a topic. Mentioning the existence of obscure papers would be promoting those sources and would be misleadingly implying they are encyclopedically significant, but it would not improve readers' understanding of the topic. Grayfell (talk) 21:37, 26 January 2021 (UTC)


 * In my view, you are avoiding giving any direct answers to justify your actions. Please give a straight answer: are you claiming Deirmentzoglou is an 'obscure paper'? IOHKwriter (talk) 17:36, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Implying that I have some obligation to "justify" my actions to you is grandiose and silly. Your question is loaded and largely irrelevant, and you do not get to set the terms of this request as though it were a debate. As I said before, all sources must be judged in context. As I've already said, the Deirmentzoglou paper doesn't mention Cardano and Ouroboros already has its own article. Therefore your proposal would add trivia to the article based on your subjective opinion, but it would not add encyclopedic benefit. If you want to adjust your proposal, start with reliable, independent sources which mention Cardano, and neutrally summarize what they say about Cardano. Do not fill in the gaps with your own first-hand knowledge of the topic. Grayfell (talk) 20:22, 28 January 2021 (UTC)


 * How about this: Cardano has been described as “one of the most secure of existing cryptos” [Rosenbaum] and its consensus protocol as having “formal definitions and strong theoretical background to support its security”. [Nguyen] C. T. Nguyen, D. T. Hoang, D. N. Nguyen, D. Niyato, H. T. Nguyen and E. Dutkiewicz, "Proof-of-Stake Consensus Mechanisms for Future Blockchain Networks: Fundamentals, Applications and Opportunities," in IEEE Access, vol. 7, pp. 85727-85745, 2019. https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/8746079 (accessed 1 February 2021). IOHKwriter (talk) 09:49, 3 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Cyprus Mail (source of the first quote) is very unlikely to be an RS on cryptographic security - David Gerard (talk) 18:28, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Cyprus Mail (a notable paper) is talking about cryptocurrencies. Journalist will have done research to establish validity of his comments in a substantial 2-part piece. Rosenbaum has reported widely on business/tech/finance with 500+ stories in past year. Nguyen talks about the cryptography. IOHKwriter (talk) 11:39, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
 * yeah, no - David Gerard (talk) 12:34, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
 * yeah, no - what does that mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by IOHKwriter (talk • contribs) 12:47, 5 February 2021 (UTC)


 * One small comment on this statement that adding any information related to Ouroboros is "trivia". It may seem like "trivia" to you but it IS Cardano. It is the beating heart of what allows Cardano to function and is the core protocol used, without it Cardano wouldn't exist. As IOHKwriter stated it is like the engine to the car. It is a shame there are not more reliable sources to use though. Bob (talk) 14:46, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
 * That completely misses the point. Yet again, it is up to sources to show that this is important, not editors. We have articles for separate topics because this is an encyclopedia, and using flimsy sources to cram-in info which is indirectly related to a topic is inappropriate. Automotive engines are the "beating hearts" of automobiles, but there are sources discussing this. The Mazda Wankel engine is the "beating heart" of the Mazda RX-8, but we have articles discussing both of them as separate entities. Find a source which explains why this matters for Cardano and summarize neutrally. Your first-hand knowledge is not helpful, and editorializing about beating hearts cannot be used to improve the article. Grayfell (talk)


 * David Gerard, Grayfell – any chance of getting the Cyprus Mail and Nguyen references added? |Litecoin|Tether_(cryptocurrency)|Ripple_(payment_protocol)|Polkadot_(cryptocurrency)|Ethereum|Bitcoin_Cash|Stellar_(payment_network) Wikipedia stats show the Cardano page is popular and security is a popular query which the deleted security statement would go some way to addressing IOHKwriter (talk) 12:41, 17 February 2021 (UTC)


 * No, we both already explained why we do not think they are appropriate. Do not pester other users. Grayfell (talk) 20:38, 17 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Grayfell No you haven't. The only reply to the Cyprus Mail/Nguyen combination has been David Gerard's 'yeah, no'. Does that mean yes to Cyprus Mail, no to Nguyen? As for 'Do not pester other users – who do you think you are? IOHKwriter (talk) 12:35, 18 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I said what the problem with Cyprus Mail was, please don't pretend I didn't when you directly answered it.
 * The fundamental problem is that you're still treating Wikipedia as a promotional platform for Cardano, and frustrated when you can't promote it the way you want to - David Gerard (talk) 17:53, 18 February 2021 (UTC)


 * You said: 'very unlikely to be an RS on cryptographic security', which is not what it is claiming to be; it is journalism from a notable source according to Wikipedia. It is a survey on what it regards as reliable cryptocurrencies. As for Nguyen, you have said nothing but 'yeah, no'. I did not write in the Cyprus Mail reference; I suggested adding Nguyen because any entry about a cryptocurrency should have a mention of security. I have suggested a sentence: 'Cardano has been described as “one of the most secure of existing cryptos” [Rosenbaum] and its consensus protocol as having “formal definitions and strong theoretical background to support its security”. [Nguyen]
 * On your broader point, I have been trying to discover why the original Cardano page was deleted. This was a bad decision. Since being reinstated, the page has established itself as one of the |Litecoin|Tether_(cryptocurrency)|Ripple_(payment_protocol)|Polkadot_(cryptocurrency)|Ethereum|Mini_(marque)|Aston_Martin top cryptocurrency pages viewed on Wikipedia – it it were a car, it would be more popular than a Mini or an Aston Martin DB5. The fundamental problem, in fact, is your anti-blockchain agenda and having a book to promote. This has even led you to adopt an anti-academic stance with statements such as 'proceedings are dodgy in cryptocurrency/blockchain land'; though this may be because you confuse cryptocurrency with cryptography. You seem to have extra venom towards Cardano and its founder, as on Twitter: "@IOHK_Charles [is] a pump'n'dump scammer". Yet you can prevent anyone else editing this page and spend your time deleting as much as you possibly can. At least I declare what am I am doing and why. IOHKwriter (talk) 11:10, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Is Charles Hoskinson notable?
Twitter figures and policy suggest he is. With 115k followers, Hoskinson meets a threshold criteria that any controversial tweets he makes are allowed to stay up because they are in the public interest. The threshold is 100k or that the person represents a government or is an elected official. Jimmy Wales 152k; Vitalik Buterin 885k; Larry Ellison 105k. The average number of followers on Twitter is estimated to be 707. Hoskinson is mentioned on three Wikipedia pages — Preceding unsigned comment added by IOHKwriter (talk • contribs) 15:20, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Cited as founder of the Bitcoin Education Project in Bitcoin's successors: from Litecoin to Freicoin and onwards, Guardian, 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by IOHKwriter (talk • contribs) 11:28, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Forbes magazine estimated Hoskinson's wealth at $500m-$600m in a feb 28 2018 issue profile as part of its first crypto wealth table. Hoskinson was ranked 14 of the 19 men covered. Vitalik Buterin, 24, was the youngest, and Hoskinson, 30, the second-youngest. https://www.forbes.com/sites/angelauyeung/2018/02/07/charles-hoskinson-ethereum-iohk-blockchain-crypto-cryptocurrency/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by IOHKwriter (talk • contribs) 10:47, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Will there be someone going to mention the YouTube channel hacking incident, which involved YouTube animator Zeruel82Mk2 losing all his hard work as well as nearly 120k subscribers to Cardano ADA?
Cardano ADA did a live stream on his channel showing live updates and price predictions. They also deleted his content, but did not delete his community posts, which led me to realize that he was hacked.

This has absolutely nothing to do with ADA / Cardano. Take this up with Youtube's security policy. It is the youtuber's fault for leaking their password/ info to a "hacker" through following a malicious link / phishing scam.Bob (talk) 15:51, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

New Cardano references
- 3,000+ word article in Investors Chronicle, a leading weekly for investors. James Norrington (2021) “Deciphering crypto”, Investors Chronicle, 25 March 2021. https://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/news/2021/03/25/deciphering-crypto/ (subscription needed). Summary: In early 2021, the Investors Chronicle, a subscription-based financial weekly owned by the Financial Times, summarised the cryptocurrency sector, identifying Bitcoin as an institutional asset; suggesting that decentralised finance (DeFi) could revolutionise the internet, based on smart contract currencies such as Ethereum, Polkadot and Cardano; and saw blockchain as a threat to both Amazon and Microsoft. Also discusses NFTs.

Quotes from section entitled 'Disrupting the disruptors: are Polkadot and Cardano Ethereum killers?': "Cardano (ADA) is a blockchain that uses a more flexible protocol [than Ethereum] and has potential to integrate blockchains through the efficient and low transaction cost proof of stake algorithms."

"Both Cardano and Polkadot boast better transaction speeds and potential for scalability than ether, which makes them better solutions [than Ethereum] for real-world payments. The real power of Ethereum is its network, however, and the roll-out of the 2.0 version is expected to iron out some shortcomings. Its place at the heart of what its backers see as the coming DeFi explosion could be very significant, even if there are better coins and protocols for some payment and e-commerce functions."

- 1,000-word piece in Financial News, a Subscription weekly owned by News UK (owners of The Times and Sunday Times) Bérengère Sim (2021) "It's not just bitcoin — here are the top 10 biggest cryptocurrencies", Financial News, 9 March 2021. https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/its-not-just-bitcoin-here-are-the-top-10-biggest-cryptocurrencies-20210309 Summarises recent events and identifies Cardano as one of the top 10.

- Anthony Cuthbertson (2021) "How bad is bitcoin for the environment really?", The Indepoendent, 19 March 2021. Quotes Hoskinson claim that Cardano is 4 million times more energy efficient than bitcoin. Quote: "Cardano is being built to scale to meet the needs of global businesses and consumers, at higher volumes and faster speeds than existing global financial infrastructure – despite the entire global network using no more energy than a large family home." https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/bitcoin-environment-mining-energy-cryptocurrency-b1819545.htmlIOHKwriter (talk) 11:58, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Do you know how to use template:refideas? -- Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 23:44, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Another potentially interesting source to use for those that can edit: https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenehrlich/2021/04/26/cardano-and-ethereum-founder-analyzes-the-newest-evolutions-in-crypto-and--blockchain-technology/?sh=156271b3e52e Bob (talk) 15:57, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 21 April 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved     Kadzi    (talk) 09:23, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

– WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Looking at the disambiguation page, there is no other subject purely called "Cardano". The closest topic would be Gerolamo Cardano (this platform's namesake), however that page is naturally disambiguated using his full name, and doesn't come close on page views (300 vs 3000). We can put a hatnote here that says ''This article is about the blockchain platform. For the mathematician, see Gerolamo Cardano. For other uses, see Cardano (disambiguation).'' TarkusAB talk / contrib 09:01, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Cardano (cryptocurrency platform) → Cardano
 * Cardano → Cardano (disambiguation)
 * Oppose. It can be argued that there is a primary topic with respect to usage at this moment: the clickstream data for March shows that the cryptocurrency got 83% of the traffic from the dab page at Cardano. That's not as big a ratio as suggested by the pageviews, but it's certainly big enough to pass most people's criteria. However, primary topics also require established long-term significance and that's simply not present. Gerolamo Cardano, who is commonly known just as Cardano, is a very important figure in the mathematics of the Renaissance, and Cardano was a redirect to his article for all of its 15-year history until it got turned into a dab page two months ago. The cryptocurrency article on other hand, has existed only for six months, and even though its popularity is growing, popularity by itself does not indicate greater enduring notability. Maybe if the reader attention is sustained for a few years, then a reconsideration may be possible, but definitely not now. – Uanfala (talk) 14:48, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Uanfala. The test at WP:PTOPIC has two limbs, and the cryptocurrency fails the second one. The historical and lasting importance of the mathematician means that there is no PTOPIC. Narky Blert (talk) 12:47, 26 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose Considering there are multiple Cardano related pages on wiki it seems sensible and reasonable to explicitly state its relation to cryptocurrency (at least for now). Bob (talk) 15:52, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

'World’s biggest blockchain deployment', involving five million students

 * ✅ though "world's biggest blockchain deployment" smells of MOS:PEACOCK so we should avoid until we get something more concrete. TarkusAB talk / contrib 23:11, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Ethiopia blockchain scheme for 5m students
More coverage after NYTimes:

- https://www.bbc.com/amharic/56932564

- https://www.focus.de/finanzen/boerse/kryptowaehrungen/cardano-ueber-5-000-000-aethiopische-schueler-erhalten-blockchain-id_id_13246678.html

- https://futurezone.at/netzpolitik/cardano-gewinnt-57-millionen-neue-krypto-user-in-afrika/401364614

- https://www.laprovence.com/article/sorties-loisirs/6339376/le-gouvernement-ethiopien-s[%E2%80%A6]une-entreprise-de-blockchain-pour-moderniser-son-systeme-ed

IOHKwriter (talk) 09:38, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

https://www.cnbcafrica.com/2021/how-blockchain-technology-can-help-improve-quality-of-life-in-africa/ IOHKwriter (talk) 14:38, 14 May 2021 (UTC)


 * As a reminder, machine translation should not be relied on. Non-English sources can be used, but they must be verified by a human who can read and evaluate these sources in context.
 * Therefore, the Amharic BBC source would need someone who speaks Amharic to be usable, per WP:V.
 * I do not accept that Futurezone (or Telekurier) are presumed reliable, even with a German-speaker confirmation.
 * Similarly, the La Provence article is attributed to someone named "RelaxNews", which strongly suggests churnalism or similar hijinks.
 * The CNBC Africa source is usable, but is a puff-piece interview, and should be treated accordingly. Any non-routine detail from this interview should almost certainly be supported by a better source. Grayfell (talk) 00:49, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * After looking into it closer to see if this applies to other articles, RelaxNews is the former name of ETX Studios, which no longer even pretends to be a newswire. I have adjusted the the ETX Studio article accordingly. Cardano's use of poorly-attributed advertorial content suggests that borderline coverage of this company should be carefully scrutinized. Wikipedia is not a platform for public relations. Grayfell (talk) 03:45, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

IOHKwriter (talk) 12:15, 21 May 2021 (UTC)