Talk:Carey Baptist Grammar School

Peer Review Suggestions
Have made a small addition to the Alumni list, and will endeavor to clean the section tomorrow. Then I think we should go about implementing some of the suggestions made in the peer review.--Veloxsilentium (talk) 15:52, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Pics
Is it OK for Wikipedia to show images of children without their consent? I know parents probably signed a release for these images to be placed on the school's website, but that release probably doesn't cover Wikipedia. New laws were recently introduced by the Victorian Bracks government to ban this sort of stuff involving Victorian kids, but Wikipedia is subject to different laws I think. Harro5 09:32, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

I do some of the productions and i normally take pictures i would be happy for any of my pictures to be used on wikipedia MGH Pics Hughesie89 11:05, May 15, 2007 (UTC)

The Victorian Government especially does not have control over Wikipedia nor the internet, nor the images Carey decides to use for promotional material and/or imagery on their website. I also do do not understand how showing pictures of students in the performing arts and sport could be seen as 'gimmicky' or to be seen as being not a NPOV - even the shot of the interior of the Millikan Building is hard to beleive as not being a NPOV. And also your well done Caulfield Grammar article shows face pics of students. I personally think this article should at least receive the benefit of the doubt of which it deserves. I apologise for not doing the picture labelling stuff correctly. I appreciate the contribution and your advice as well. However with the pics being labbelled as gimmicky and not being a NPOV by you, I am not entirely too sure it is correct. I hope this isn't silly APS envy because as we both know our schools directly compete as they have similar attributes and I know you are proud of Caulfield. However I truely hope that rediculousness doesn't come into the scene. Noiretblanc29 10:57, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * This has been extensively discussed at the administrator's noticeboard. The consensus was that the images were unencyclopedic and weeren't needed. I would be happy to see articles of the school stay (especially ones not from the school website), but promo pics aren't needed. Harro5 21:32, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

Air-Photo
I think that the Air-Photo is fairly old - the Millikan building isn't included. Is there anything better we can use? Lochok 09:37, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

House System
You really think the House System shouldn't be mentioned Harro5? As a current student, I know that it is greatly more important then many schools (at least from whom I know in Victoria) have. It is for this reason particularly notable - and it still is NPOV. It is also a major part of the history of the school, with reference to the older days of bording and uni-sexism. Just my 2 centrs...

Lochok 02:16, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The section you added was basically a list of house names and colours - adds nothing to the article - and what they do, compete. Every school I know in Melbourne has this. The other stuff you mention here that makes it notable was not included at all in the article. House systems at schools are inherently not notable, and unless something at Carey is especially different, this section - as I noted - is not interesting or relevant to an otherwise good piece. Harro5 06:35, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah - understood. My apologies Lochok 07:34, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

The House information is a great thing to have on a wiki page it gives more information into the school

It is part of the history and culture of the school Quintus Petronius Augustus 23:20, 6 March 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Quintus Petronius Augustus (talk • contribs)

I must say, I was looking for exactly this information... to not find it. Harro5 is quite correct that "every school in Melbourne [indeed Victoria] has this". However, different schools put different emphases on its use. For some, it is merely a way to manage intra-school sports. For others, there are administrative, educational and even student management roles that houses fulfil. I have worked at schools where Year Level Coordinators have been abolished in favour of House Managers. Not discussing them - possibly in the context of a schools' student management strategies - seems an oversight. Even the mere listing of house names and colours can give hints to the social and cultural paradigms the school focuses on. Example: Covenant College in Geelong uses Wilberforce, Livingstone, Mueller and ten Boom as houses, and staff are encouraged to use those four personages as role models in discussions with students. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2402:B801:2857:7E00:A059:5E59:E261:3A82 (talk) 02:56, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

History
I removed the out of date statistic "In 2005 the student population of girls will reach 44%." - if anyone can replace it, coolio. • Le  on  04:13, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Notable Alumni
The list of Notable Alumni seems to be getting fairly long. It is arguable how a lawyer could be notable alumini. Do we need to start culling of just let it grow or put a limit on it? Lochok 22:29, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Hear the voice
i have altered this article because its popularity doesnt impact upon the need to now about it —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Warrandyte4eva (talk • contribs) 05:47, 9 May 2007 (UTC).

Removed Sections
I have removed certain parts that I felt didn’t add to the overall article. Namely the caddie program & hear the voice sections. They were very poorly written and contained advertising (hear the voice email/website address). If anyone feels these should be re-added, feel free to rewrite them in a way that is comprehendible and post it here for review. 124.190.91.136 12:22, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

202.134.33.92 04:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)Agreed, It adds nothing to the overall article, it also has little impact on school itself, so therefore I consider it irrelevant, 20/08/07

I also second that. Bad grammar, lots of 'we' and definatately not neutral. Genericguy 11:48, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Best of all would be to leave editing of the entry to the person authorised to do so. It is damaging for an educational organisation to have published in its name material that is grammatically incorrect and full of typos. Christina Mowle 04:10, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Alumni Section
I have slightly changed the alumni section, removing one of the 'titles' attached to Steve Vizard's name. The title in question (inside trader) is inappropriate as all the other titles that everyother alumni has - are jobs/careers, correct me if I'm wrong, but inside trader isn't typically a career. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.160.112.200 (talk) 07:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposal
The result was merge into Carey Baptist Grammar School. -- Loopla (talk) 12:42, 29 April 2008 (UTC) I have proposed a merger of Carey Sports Complex into this article. The Carey Sports Complex, in my opinion, is not notable enough to warrant its own article, and as the Carey Baptist Grammar School article has only limited coverage of the school's campuses/facilities, it would best included here. Loopla (talk) 20:53, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Support Merge This sports complex is completely non-notable, and does not deserve an article in its own right. A similar AfD exists here, which related to a school oval, which had hosted first-class cricket games, the sports complex in question only hosted training for Rugby. Five Years 08:07, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Complete support. I would just copy this material into its own heading for this article and delete the other. No one will search for an article about the sports complex. Harr o 5 08:09, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Edit request from 128.250.241.227, 3 February 2011
edit semi-protected  So please change James Tonkin('83) Steve Vizard ('73) to James Tonkin ('83) Prof Andrew Vizard ('75) Steve Vizard ('73)

128.250.241.227 (talk) 05:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Assuming good faith and ✅. –Moondyne 06:32, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:22, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Carey Baptist Grammar School logo.png

VCE Scores of Carey restored
Formerly, there used to be a VCE score table of all the recorded years. This is the same on most other Victoria school’s Wikipedia pages. Therefore, this table should be restored under the Curriculum section. Carey3146 (talk) 05:19, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Support Carey3146 (talk) 05:20, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Firstly, this is not a proposal that requires voting, but a discussion to reach consensus. Secondly, while discussion is under way, it is not great etiquette to simply restore the content to your preferred version. I personally do not believe the content should be included, but if other editors agree it should be, I'm happy to be persuaded (or agree to disagree). Melcous (talk) 05:44, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Just more unnecessary content. And it's NOT true to say it's the same on most other Victoria school’s Wikipedia pages. School's need to do their marketing through other channels. HiLo48 (talk) 06:34, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It is not marketing it is simple information that many people are interested in seeing. Many of these private schools in this area of Melbourne have these tables included because it is important to those schools and to the people who look at these Wikipedia pages. Carey3146 (talk) 07:02, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh dear. First you claimed they were "on most other Victoria school’s Wikipedia pages". Now it's "Many of these private schools in this area of Melbourne". If you think about why, it's marketing!! HiLo48 (talk) 09:16, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * So why do we include was schools offer their students and their sporting output with medals and awards but don’t seem to be okay with having information on their academic output on the Carey Wikipedia page. Seems like double standards are here. It is good to have here and interesting for people. It if fact and informative, not another opportunity to show off. They rarely do that on their own website regarding VCE results. Carey3146 (talk) 09:19, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It is excessive to list these results for every year. Meters (talk) 07:28, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It is important to find a comparison between each year with these results over the years for a ten-year period. Carey3146 (talk) 20:06, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Removed again until we reach consensus. Meters (talk) 07:31, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It is worth noting WP:WPSCH/AG which lists specific things not to include in school articles. On the list is Comparisons of sports results, exam results, etc. between schools ... unless third-party reliable sources themselves make such comparisons. Melcous (talk) 11:04, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The tables and stats there, are made by third party groups on Carey, not by Carey. Carey3146 (talk) 20:04, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, the raw data is made by others, but I would interpret this to mean an independent source is specifically talking about Carey and noting something about its academic results and why they are significant. Melcous (talk) 22:41, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * That is exactly what that table shows. It shows the highest year of the school finish their studies and the stats are shown in that ordered manner every year. Carey3146 (talk) 05:05, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Order of Australia Medal for Phil de Young
Is it possible for someone to include next the name of Phil de Young under the Principal section of this article 'OAM' which stands for Order of Australia Medal. (This is one of the national orders of Australia that was given to him this year. The link to prove this is found next to his name. Carey3146 (talk) 05:22, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * there is no point making a request here if you are just going to make the edit yourself less than 20 minutes later. As you have acknowledged you have a conflict of interest, you need to be prepared that edit requests can take some time to be responded to, and you will need to be patient. Melcous (talk) 06:13, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Excessive Removal of Information about Carey
Tambor de Tocino has excessively removed factual and cited information with very poor reasoning to determine that information being removed. The article has shrunk dramatically that now shares very little information about the school. The editor claims that there are too many primary sources and that there is too much exceptional promotional information is false and a gross exaggeration of the facts at hand. After all, most schools have information about its history, former principals, co-curricular and alumni. Carey should not be the exception. I understand that some pieces of information can be excessive, and should be removed or at the least, discussed further on how that can be resolved, but the vast majority of information is informative to more than alumni and should be reinstated as soon as possible. Carey3146 (talk) 11:28, 23 April 2023 (UTC)


 * No WP:RELIABLE sources for most of it, and a lot of it was not WP:DUE and or WP:PROMO. Happy to discuss, but I have to ask, Carey3146 - do you have a WP:CONFLICT? I get the impression you may be connected to the school. Tambor de Tocino (talk) 23:19, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * If you give me specific examples of due and cited claims that were removed that you don't think should have been I'm happy to have a reasonable and civil discussion about restoring due and verifiable content. Tambor de Tocino (talk) 23:25, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, you do have a conflict of interest and have been demonstrably obfuscating about the conflict as evidenced here. I'm still happy to look at removals you think are unreasonable, as long as the discussion remains honest and WP:CIVIL Tambor de Tocino (talk) 23:26, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand that I have a conflict of interest, but that conflict does not preclude me from talking about the article instead of editing it.
 * To begin, I believe you can restore all of the history sections that were originally sourced in the first place - if most of those sources were primary, it doesn’t mean that it is unimportant or not deserving of being in the article, it just means there is room for improvement, rather than removal. - it is not rigidly black or white.
 * Secondly, I think you can restore the principles table as 3 out of 4 of the sources were not from Carey and were independent.
 * Thirdly, I think you can restore the information about the buildings at Carey, in particular, the ones that are cited. For instance, one building as an independent source from the architect, rather than the school itself.
 * In summary, I believe that all of the history section (that is cited) should be restored. The Principles of Carey section should also be restored in full and the buildings at Carey that are cited should also be restored.
 * Thanks. Carey3146 (talk) 00:25, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Ive restored the principals as that section does actually fit with WP:WPSCHOOLS/AG. Buildings are staying off as per aforementioned guidelines: "Do not include detail of each building, its classrooms, or equipment" and besides it just reads like Carey Grammar promotional material, they can promote their facilities themselves as per WP:PROMO. Only unverified claims have been removed from the history section, many had no citations at all, and many had been marked as failing verification for years and no one had fixed the problem, I've been generous in leaving a handful of claims backed by primary sources and one that failed verifiability so as not to completely gut the article, but even those don't really pass muster, so it's being generous to leave them in. That's all your specific issues covered. Cheers Tambor de Tocino (talk) 01:10, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that.
 * Also, why is Katie Lynch listed under alumni when there is another page with the full list of notable alumni? Carey3146 (talk) 01:54, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries. I don't know, another editor added her and I checked the citation and it verifies that she is indeed Alumni, and that's fine for inclusion. All Alumni included must have a reliable citation to verify this is the case, if the list gets long then we are supposed to create a new page entitled "List of..." All Alumni to be included must meet WP:NOTE. Can you link me to the Alumni list? I can't find it, only a category and I haven't got the time to go through that and find sources/verify they are actually Alumni. Tambor de Tocino (talk) 02:55, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Here it is: Category:People educated at Carey Baptist Grammar School Carey3146 (talk) 03:18, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's not a list article unfortunately, it's just a category, They'd all need to be checked for verifiability. I'll look at some of the more notable alumni in the category, but I don't have time to go through the whole lot. Tambor de Tocino (talk) 05:27, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Do you think you should put down the year in which they graduated from Carey (such as the Costello brothers in 1972)? I think that info was on previous revisions. Carey3146 (talk) 06:54, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Guidelines say we should list years attended if available. The cites I found and used don't mention any dates. Like every claims on Wikipedia it needs to be verifiable Tambor de Tocino (talk) 07:40, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Do you know why the first offical photograph in 1923 that was in the history section has been removed? Carey3146 (talk) 23:21, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * My mistake, it's restored now Tambor de Tocino (talk) 01:40, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Should the other pictures that were there be restored? Carey3146 (talk) 03:28, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think so, but others might. Tambor de Tocino (talk) 06:09, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I also think the description underneath the photo is missing. Carey3146 (talk) 03:29, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries, added one now. Tambor de Tocino (talk) 06:08, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Carey3146 (talk) 07:16, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I’ve found some info regarding alumni, Noah Anderson, Matthew Rowell and Darcy Moore on two videos showing them to attend at Carey.
 * Attached here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SfV0xXayNg&t=103s
 * and for Darcy Moore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wYASv8kc2I Carey3146 (talk) 08:32, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * YouTube is not a WP:RELIABLE source. Also, it is not hard to figure out that IP 101.181.73.28 is you. Please, you were clearly obfuscating about your conflict of interest and now this. If I took this to the admins you get an indefinite ban, for sure. I'm not sure why, but I'm giving you a chance to learn and do better, perhaps because the edits were innocuous. please don't do it again, I'd prefer not to do all that admin stuff. I'd suggest you leave this article alone and go find a subject you are interested in and don't have a conflict of interest, and edit that. Tambor de Tocino (talk) 11:46, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I’m sorry, I understand. Carey3146 (talk) 22:46, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Tambor de Tocino please see (until it is archived) Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard § Alan Jackson (businessman) where this editor has finally revealed in full in public forum the COI that they have, or have admitted to.
 * They have expressed shock (my italics) at their behaviour in the past. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 12:01, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

COI tag (October 2023)
Carey3146 has finally declared COI at WP:COIN 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 11:54, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

New chaplain
Hi, I want to reaffirm my recognised COI of this article and that I have no intention whatsoever to edit or damage the integrity of this article again.

However, it has come to my attention that there is a new school chaplain that replaced Rev. Gerry Rivière in January 2024. The new chaplain is Rev. Timothy Edwards.

Thank you for considering this possible update. Carey3146 (talk) 06:13, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
 * when making an edit suggestion or request, please always provide a WP:RS. Thanks Melcous (talk) 21:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, the reference provided is here:
 * Thanks Carey3146 (talk) 22:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC)