Talk:Carl Karcher

Life
I noticed that Eternal Father, Strong to Save was played at Carl's funeral service. Had he been in the Navy at some time? knoodelhed (talk) 09:01, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think Fast Food Nation is the best source on his life. There's almost nothing here on the war between Karcher and the board of directors of CKE from the early 90's; but a whole section that paints him as right-winger who hates gays. There's not very much on his life in general, or on his business ethics, business models or how he achieved his success. I don't see anything about the fast food wars of the 50's, 60's and 70's and how he managed to compete with McDonalds and other big names. It doesnt mention his 12 children or his deep Catholic devoition. The point is that this man had an eventful life, and this article doesn't do him justice. Bobert432 (talk) 01:52, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

It is not "painting" him as a "right-winger who hates gays" by simply stating the facts. And those facts are more than clear: as evidenced by his public statements and stances; corporate philosophy; and longtime history of political contributions. The bottom line is that the man was an ultra-conservative, a racist, a bigot, a homophobe, and a misogynist; who's company had to be regularly and repeatedly sued (successfully), because he single-handedly fostered a corporate climate that systematically excluded anyone who was not white, male, conservative, Christian (preferably Catholic), and ostensibly heterosexual. African-Americans, Hispanics, Asians, gays, women, etc., need not apply.

So yes, the man is dead. But that is no justification for now attempting to fabricate some kind of glorified, yet utterly transparent, revisionist history of the man, using Wikipedia as the tool. In death he stands for exactly what he stood for in life. Zero difference. Was he charitable to the causes he supported and believed in? Unquestionably. But an "encyclopedia" should tell the whole story. This is not the forum for his supporters, associates, or political affiliates to try to transform him, post-mortem, into some kind of new Mother Teresa. That would not only be factually inaccurate, it would be disengenuous and self-serving as well.

That is funny you would say such things about a man who employs all races and the deaf and the handicap. If you ever met Carl Karcher you would never think he is a bigot, or a racist. The only thing the media can say badly about him is his support for a proposition thirty years ago. What other facts are there.... none. Ask all of his employee's and even the public which includes people of all different races and background what they think of him. Look at the OCregister.com and his legacy guest book. It is signed by African-Americans, Hispanics, Asians, gays, women, etc. He has done more for people than you can even imagine. It is typical of uninformed and unintelligent people to say things like this. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and degrading others. The Carl Karcher story is the best example of "The American Dream". Maybe if you put as much time into bettering yourself you could be a part of the corporate climate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.83.117.28 (talk) 04:19, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Your ad hominem attacks on me are rather ironic given that they frankly display the very ignorance that you accuse me of. My comments reflect the public record and the facts, neither of which you make any real or legitimate effort to address or deny. Nothing more. You conveniently ignore the numerous lawsuits against the company for federal EEOC and SEC violations; and the history of supporting ultra-conservative politicians and causes. Many of the lawsuits against the company were for it's corporate climate - that systematically and steadfastly refused to promote in more than token numbers: African-Americans, Latinos, gays or women to the upper levels of it's corporate culture. I'm not talking about the people who manage in the stores, I'm talking about the people who manage the company. To this day, how many women are on the Board of Directors? Do you even know? I seriously doubt it, so let me tell you. One. How many women and minorities are on the executive management team and what percentage of that team do they represent? Again, do you even know? I won't spoon feed you the answer to that one, but you would be well-advised to check your facts and do your homework, before you start making ridiculous assertions, or have the temerity to attempt to sling insults. You only embarrass yourself.

As to your laughable remark about "bettering" myself, again you have zero personal knowledge of me, so you really do appear to be just another ignorant and clueless jackass using the anonymity of the internet to spout nothing of value. I am reminded of the line from Shakespeare's Macbeth: “It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.” Judging from your own churlish and marginally coherent responses, it would appear that it is you who could desperately use some "bettering." As to your "American Dream" assertion, I'm quite certain that "Dream" had nothing to do with using your money to advance your own narrowly focused and unpopular ideologies on the backs of those who happen to be different from yourself. That's no American dream. Frankly it's more illustrative of a nightmare. You want a dream? It might be both wise and timely given the recent holiday, for you to actually try reading Martin Luther King's "I Have A Dream". Then get back to me.

Finally, contrary to what you seem to believe, I am not interesting in vilifying the man. However it is clear that your only agenda is in attempting to deify him. I am an editor of Wikipedia. My only interest is in an article that is intelligently written, factually balanced and accurate. Anything else is irrelevant. Save your eulogies for the funeral, the guestbook, and other more appropriate tributes as they may present themselves. Wikipedia is simply not the place for them. Nor is it the place for your personal suppositions, which are as baseless as the rest of your ill-conceived, and ill-mannered conclusions. 208.127.96.32 (talk) 10:44, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I first met Carl when I was 15 years old and after 35 years and more than a dozen personal visits with the man in his home and 100's of visits in the office, I can assure you that there was not one racist or bigotist bone in his body. I was there. The facts will show that many of his beliefs were founded on his strong devotion to his faith and his faith told him that some of the things that society accepts were considered sins to most christians for many years. Homosexulity was condemed by nearly all public officials in our country due to religious beliefs up until just a decade ago. Many religions as well as many people have changed their views since 1964 when Carl suported the initiative banning gays from teaching in public schools. Many, many leaders in our government supported this innitiaive as well. 1964 was a different world. Many of these people came to understand what true equality was. Carl never hated gays. I asked him this question personally. He was visually sadened by my question. He responded with "I can't think of a single person that I hate, I strive to treat everyone with the same respect that I would want in return, EVERYONE!" Carl went on to say that this was something he taught all his children and required his management team to do the same or he would not keep them around. He infact opened up his heart to blacks, hispanics, gays, handicaped people and everyone of all colors and sexual orientation. He invited into his home and into his business anyone who would accept his smile and kind conversation. His first employee was hispanic and his very best friend, other than his wife, for the last 12 years of his life was hispanic. Carl loved the hispanic culture and a mariachi band sang and performed at his burial. I was there. Carl was a board member for the Boys and Girls Club and showed extreme concern in helping the poor African American and hispanic families whose children were members of the club. Carl was a huge contributor to the United Way and again showed his concern for the African American families living in poverty. I could go on for days telling you stories about how Carl helped many, many, many people of all races, creeds and colors. His company was one of the first to hire handicap workers. Carl Karcher, in later years, became a major contributor to the Aids Foundation and told me how is heart was broken to learn that one of his gay employees at the flagship restaurant which was located just outside his office had died from aids. He told me this while I was visiting his home with my boyfriend. Yes, I am a gay man, Carl never treated me or my boyfriend with anything other than respect. We laughed and shared many good stories. Yes, I was an employee also of Carl's Jr. Corporate offices, Carl knew I was gay and gave the important reference to his HR supervisor so that I was hired in the position I held for many years. Guess what, I worked with blacks, hispanics, other gays, asians and everything under the sun at his headquarters. We all loved Carl and he went out of his way to treat all of us with the same respect. I was there. What annoys me is that some people will take the time to write negative things about someone that they really didn't know. This gossip is hurtful, uncaring and defamitory. It's ironic that the person who dishes out these untrue statements is infact as bad a person that they acuse Carl Karcher of being. I knew Carl Karcher very well and he was a kind, considerate, loving and caring man. He was a devout christian. I was there. We miss you, Carl. This world would be much better if more people were as caring as you were!

By the way, yes Carl was in the Navy for about a year and a half at the end world war 2.

To the previous editor, thank you for your contribution. Naturally you have every right to defend someone whom you knew personally and clearly had genuine affection for. Everyone can appreciate that. However, please understand that this article is not a tribute page to your friend. Nor should it be. As I wrote above, this article should only concern itself with the facts. And sometimes facts can be troubling things. They can seem cold and even heartless, but they are what they are. My previous statements characterizing the man were not based upon your private knowledge of him, but on his public record, his public statements and his proudly held public beliefs. You can say they were rooted in his Christian belief and that's fine. Frankly, we've seen all too frequently these days, people who use their "Christian belief" as a mask to hide their very unChrist-like agendas. It doesn't take "Christian beliefs" to sell burgers. Nor does it take "Christian beliefs" to abide by federal and state laws and regulations. But that is a tangent. Again, the bottom line here is that my comments were based on the public record. The comments regarding the culture at his corporation are based on facts. The EEOC violations, the SEC lawsuit and fines, and scores of other lawsuits are also all facts.

The fact that you were a lone gay man that was employed in mid-management in a huge corporation, with all due respect, does not speak to the issue that you were among the rare exceptions. Nor does it address the fact that you were probably not, if I understood you, at the executive management level. Further, it does not address the simple fact that there were precious few Latinos, African-Americans, women, or gays at that level. Certainly not compared with the numbers found in most other corporations of that size. And absolutely in no way in percentages reflective of the demographic of the company's consumer base.

It is also a fact, as you indicated that the man gave generously to many charities and causes that he supported. I said as much. It is also a fact that prominent among those were the John Birch Society, and John Schmitz. Of Wisconsin Sen. Joseph McCarthy, castigated for his virulent anti-Communist crusades in the 1950s, Karcher said, "I think some of his points were valid." And Karcher said he thought Nixon got a "bum rap" in the Watergate scandal.

The list goes on and on. I'm fine with not including all of it in this article, because then the article could be fairly accused of NPOV. But once again, let's not try to ignore, or run from those facts either. At least not in this forum.208.127.96.32 (talk) 10:44, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:FOOD Tagging
This article talk page was automatically added with WikiProject Food and drink banner as it falls under Category:Restaurants or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. You can find the related request for tagging here -- TinucherianBot (talk) 08:10, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Carl Karcher Busted For Insider Stock Trading in 1988
Please don't attack, I'm not here to debate how much he liked queers, but a real news item from real life has been omitted from this article, he was busted by the SEC for insider stock trading in 1988, it was a big news story at the time, he made the usual talk about being innocent and fighting it to the death...then pled guitly. His family dumped a lot of stock before it tanked due to their insider knowledge of the pending and unreleased financial news. Why has this been omitted or removed from the article? It bothers to mention that he was honored on the Anaheim/Orange County Walk of Stars, but seriously, has anyone ever heard of the Anaheim/Orange County Walk of Stars? I remember sitting in one of his restaurants in CA back in late 1988 and reading the tray liner that had the life history of CK and his restaurant, somehow failing to mention the one time that he did anything that the news wires picked up. In 2009, Wiki is a puff piece just like that disposable tray liner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.100.147 (talk) 08:28, 24 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree, and as of Oct 2010 it remains a POV puff-piece. --166.137.142.8 (talk) 00:52, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Unusual unsourced content
How is this not sourced: "Karcher served for a time as Chairman and CEO of the company until his own company removed him from the position for his bias views of race and sexual orientation."? Not to mention the grammatical error that suggests a drive-by edit, this claim is contradicted by the Bloomberg obit deadlinked elsewhere in the article. "Karcher ran afoul of his hand-picked board in 1992 when he attempted to arrange a dual-branding relationship and exchange of equity with GB Foods Corp., parent of the Green Burrito restaurant chain. . . . After the boardroom fight became public, Karcher was pushed out as chairman" (Carl Karcher, Founder of Carl's Jr. Chain, Dies at 90, Bloomberg, Jan. 12, 2008 ) Also, I'm removing ". . . succeeded by a great-great niece . . ." for reasons I needn't explain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.109.248.222 (talk) 02:24, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

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