Talk:Carlos Alberto Torres (Puerto Rican nationalist)

Untitled
RE: This article claims no one was killed or injured by FALN activities. According to today's article in San Francisco Chronicle site sfgate.com, Torres was found directly responsible for the deaths of victims in the bombings perpetrated by FALN. Testimony of Frank Connor's son, a man killed in the 1975 bombing: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/07/27/international/i152256D94.DTL Reference to death of Charles Steinberg, and injury of NYPD officers. http://blog.insidetheapple.net/2010/01/bombing-of-fraunces-tavern-january-24.html 192.36.1.252 (talk) 23:23, 27 July 2010 (UTC)A_Salsa_Fan 192.36.1.252 (talk) 23:34, 27 July 2010 (UTC)A_Salsa_Fan


 * Since this is an article about Torres, and not about the FALN, what the article should had said was that he himself was not involved in any FALN activities that killed or injured anyone. This has now been corrected to read correctly. Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 05:06, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect references
I went through and changed all incorrect references to "political prisoner" to the factually correct and accurate "terrorist". There may be a better choice than terrorist, but this man was tried and convicted of aiding a terrorist organization, calling him a "political prisoner" is inaccurate and unexcyclopedic, while also very POV. He isn't in prison because of his views, he's in prison because of his crimes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.239.105.4 (talk) 18:48, 6 May 2014 (UTC)


 * That's what the sources state. Mercy11 (talk) 19:42, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

This article, like most of the articles of FALN members, is riddled with errors and biases
Please go to the talk sections of either FALN (Puerto Rico) or Oscar Lopez Rivera to see the myriad controversies with these articles, which share the same authors, Mercy11, protecting them.
 * 1) 1)First of all, from the article, I am not sure what his political affiliation really is. He was captured and convicted for seditious conspiracy, and the actions alleged in the conspiracy were those of the FALN, which included bombings and robberies. While they could not pin him down to participation in specific bombings, he was the owner of the apartment found to be a bomb factory in Jersey City used in numerous bombings in the New York. His wife at the time, Marie Haydee Torres Beltran was convicted using fingerprints of placing the FALN bomb and killing Charles Steinberg in the Mobil Oil Building in New York. The 1975 Fraunces Tavern bombing that killed was claimed by the FALN, and the FBI suspected that Torres was the leader of the FALN at the time. Torres, his wife (who were fugitives at the time) and ten other FALN members were arrested in Evanston, Illinois, while in a van waiting to rob an armored truck.

So if Torres was a member of the Marxist FALN, then how come he is now linked to the semi-defunct Nationalist Party, which was a fascist-influenced from the 1950s. Did he become a member after his release in 2010? The box also claims he is a member of the non-violent democratic socialist PIP party? Maybe he wants to join every party.


 * 1) 2) He was not convicted of conspiring to use force against the lawful authority of the United States over Puerto Rico . He was convicted of using force against the government of the United States. Most of the FALN bombings and robberies during the time when Torres was a leader occured in the United States, not Puerto Rico. You don't get to rewrite the reasons why you were convicted to fit your own biased narrative.


 * 1) 3) Mercy11 has an aversion to using the tag USA on biographical boxes that contain an address in Puerto Rico. In the case of Torres, this is convenient, since Torres when arrested, despite being born an American Citizen, and living in the US as a citizen for decades, once arrested as a fugitive in the United States, claimed he was a prisoner of war from another country. Obviously, this assertion was not accepted by the courts.


 * 1) 4) Torres was not convicted of treason. While some would argue that his crimes constitute treason. The reason why seditious conspiracy charges were used (and likely why they exist) is that treason is difficult to prove in court. Article 3 section 3 of the constitution requires Section 3 also requires the testimony of two different witnesses on the same overt act, or a confession by the accused in open court, to convict for treason.


 * 1) 5) He was convicted of seditious conspiracy and other charges. Also the lead sentence should mention that he has a wikipedia article because he was a member of the FALN, a violent organization involved in bombings and robberies. He does not have a wikipedia article merely for being a member of independence movement. That pales in importance with the effects of his bombings.


 * 1) 6) It is not true that he was accused of participating in the bombings, or himself causing any deaths. I can find many citations in a Roberta Belli monograph and Sage encyclopedia on Terrorism, and in a House and Senate resolution passed by overwhelming majorities that strongly disagrees with that statement. They would argue that the seditious conspiracy included bombings, deaths, and violent crimes, whether or not these were specifically enumerated as separate charges or convictions. Maybe the article should say that he was not convicted specifically of killing anybody, but his fellow fugitive, conspirator, and wife was was convicted of killing somebody when they were married and he was a leader of the FALN.


 * 1) 7) Torres was not a political prisoner, that is an opinion. He was a convicted criminal, that is a fact.


 * 1) 8) Oscar Lopez Rivera was not accused of treason. This is nonsense.


 * 1) 9) While this article states the United Nations wanted him free, it conveniently neglects a congressional resolution in 1999 passed with the agreement of ~90% of all the senators and representatives in the US Congress, including large majorities from both parties. Even the representative of the people of Puerto Rico in congress objected to unconditional clemency for FALN convicts. Clemency had been considered for Torres, but never offered because he rejected conditions from the start.

Oh and the FALN was the main if not one of the main targets of the FBI and NY Police Joint terrorism task force, the first such unit set up in the US. Numerous citations name the FALN as a terrorist group.

This article will change, as will all the other FALN articles that rewrite history from a biased viewpoint. Rococo1700 (talk) 04:07, 25 June 2014 (UTC)