Talk:Carlos Salzedo

Oops!
If he died in 1961, how could he "Return to America" in 1969? Maybe he was playing an angel's harp!  --Mpwrmnt 07:07, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Menthon, Switzerland?
I was just trying to take care of some "red links," so I looked up Menthon, Switzerland in Google Maps. The closest I could come was Menthon-Saint-Bernard, just south of Geneva on the Lac d'Annecy, but that's in FRANCE. There's a mention of a "small village of Menthon" at Château de Menthon. Now, the political boundaries of Europe have obviously changed in the intervening century, and this place is very close to the current border, so it seems plausible that at that time it WAS in Switzerland. But my European history is even sketchier than my European geography, so I'm not going to make any bold statements here! If anyone with a keener knowledge of that area could shed some light on this quandary, I would be grateful. Or perhaps someone could figure out exactly WHERE Carlos & Mimine moved to at the beginning of WWI. Thanks! --Mpwrmnt 09:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it might well be in France; I only knew approximate location. Also, I seem to have a talent for not knowing if places are in Switzerland.

Girlfriend of Merv 10:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 02:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

cheesy Language
"As a teacher, he was a Moses leading his people into a new world. " Seriously? Does not sound as objective as an encyclopedia should sound... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.204.135.162 (talk) 19:49, 21 January 2013 (UTC) Accepted criticism.98.140.79.240 (talk) 04:08, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

List of transcriptions
I completed his list of transcriptions and made the layout consistent and removed a few slight errors. The authoritative source is the Dewey Owens biography as well as a list of contents of the collection in the archives of the Curtis Institute of Music. Salzedo had a penchant for editing on published editions which are not listed here, mostly, and there is a collection in the library of the Mannes College of Music as well as that in Curtis. Unfortunately, Dewey's biography is not free of typographical errors, misspelled names and minor errors of that sort. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baron D. Z. (talk • contribs) 23:49, 19 April 2009 (UTC) Those are not the only sources, and the errors in Owens are completely irrelevant. The Curtis collection is NOT complete, and is not the only archive of his music!Baron D. Z. (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 04:52, 25 February 2019 (UTC) List of Compositions Do NOT move this list to another page! It was ruined by the "person" who did that. Toccata Quarta, keep your hands off my entry. I appreciate help with the styling, and am trying a different format, but it takes hours. Do not ruin it. You do not understand the content. I am getting unintended boxes around some text, don't know why. There are many collections here, and the titles within the collections have to be clearly differentiated from the collection titles, as do the individual titles. Each title should be italic, and collection contents should be inset. I do not like the square bullets. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baron D. Z. (talk • contribs) 04:54, 3 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi Baron D. Z., I'm starting to add sources to Salzedo's biography. I will probably be moving Salzedo's list of compositions and transcriptions to another page. It's standard practice for people with lots of works. I would be open to having a list of his more famous compositions on the main page if you have suggestions for that. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 21:18, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Stop it! I do not want you making further changes. You spoiled the page I have carefully crafted. His works belong on the same page. It looks as if he hasn't got any. Your quotes made it evident that Archambo's thesis was junk. I know she had no input from Lucile Lawrence. The only sources are in print publications, Owens, Bitter (which I edited), or direct knowledge, which I have. You don't know what you are doing, so leave it alone! I don't want you editing this at all. Your suggestion is ridiculous. Stop making changes!Baron D. Z. (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:02, 7 January 2019 (UTC) Also, I truly resent your having inserted negative quotes from Nancy Toff's book. It was totally inappropriate, and they are highly questionable, as Barrere was partners with Salzedo for a number of years. Personal remarks are certainly inappropriate. I also don't want too much information here lest people stop buying the biographies. If you really want to do research, you could look up the articles Salzedo published in Musical America, his coverage in newspapers all over, and his Eolus and Aeolian Review publications. This entry is just a summary. In the future, please contact me directly regarding any changes you want to make. And since I deleted a number of your contributions, you should delete the corresponding footnotes. Wikipedia has a problem with all entries about celebrities and performing artists. That is their problem and shortcoming. There rarely is documentation or "sources" for much information. There is nothing wrong with a bio that could be used in a program, or praise. Baron D. Z. (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:11, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Baron D. Z., the edits you made were not sourced, so I reverted them. Additions like "most prominent harp teacher of the 20th Century" and "His influence was far and wide, through touring in concert, performing on radio and making a number of recordings" are extraordinary claims that need in-line citations (see WP:Cite). Information in the lead that is cited in the body of the page does not need to be cited (see WP:Lead). The Toff book is published by Oxford University Press, which is a reliable publisher. For a page to be neutral (per WP:NPOV), it includes negative and positive aspects of a person's life. The "page you carefully crafted" had no in-line citations--my edits added them. You asked me to contact you directly regarding changes. I don't know your personal contact information, but I will leave a message on your talk page. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 17:41, 9 January 2019 (UTC) The fact that Toff published a book is completely irrelevant. Book publishers do not do fact-checking. Her quote is derogatory and out of context, and totally inappropriate. It does not belong here at all!Baron D. Z. (talk) 04:54, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Czar: Indeed, there is no value in including a negative comment that is not a portrait of the subject's personality, but rather a selfish comment reflecting an attitude. You will never find remarks like that in a responsible encyclopedia, I am very sure. The publishing of it in a book has no bearing on this. I will not stop "gatekeeping" because I have reason to care, unlike any of you, about the contents and accuracy of this entry. If it is to have any value at all, to useful as a reference, it has to be well written, accurate, and to the point. Digressions are not appropriate. Baron D. Z. (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:42, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Baron, on Wikipedia, no one editor "has the right to act as though they are the owner of a particular page", so please desist from making such demands. If you want to discuss any edit in particular, the best way to handle it is to quietly revert the controversial edit and to then bring its contents to this talk page for discussion (we call this the BOLD, revert, discuss cycle). Additionally I see no reason why the single, qualified criticism from Toff shouldn't be allowed to stand. We are foremost writing an encyclopedia article for a general audience, not a "bio that could be used in a program". czar  11:36, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * , you have been asked to discuss your objections to these edits here rather than continuing to revert wholesale. Our community expectations are that you seek consensus on content disagreements. If you continue to revert to your preferred version without discussion, you risk being blocked for edit warring. Rachel has made substantive points above as to why parts of the prior version of the article are unacceptable for Wikipedia. czar  18:05, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 * To the original point above, I think it'd make sense to include selected compositions in the main article and split out to a fuller list as needed, but not sure how the project normally handles such splits. czar  00:55, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
 * , as per User:Czar, and Ownership of content no one "owns" this page, so stop gatekeeping. Battleofalma (talk) 12:32, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

What makes sense is to have all of his works listed on the same page with the article so they are clearly linked, as they are on other biographical entries, so they are most easily found. This is not IMSLP.org, where they sometimes do that, but it is always in addition to having the list on the main page. It is barely noticeable that there is a link to another page. It was an irresponsible change. As for assertions of Salzedo's influence and greatness, they are too numerous to mention. I cannot cite the exact number of students he had in any one particular year, but it was far more than any other teacher. The only other teacher of his stature in the USA was Grandjany, whose fame developed more slowly and much later, like in the 1950s. It should be obvious that if someone is touring the country, teaching at a top conservatory, etc., that they have influence, it should not require a specific citation. However, if you check Dictionaries of musicians, such as Baker's and those by David Ewen's, you will find ample descriptions of his position. I could have gone into much more detail, such as listing all the famous musicians who wrote testimonial letters to Salzedo, but that belongs in his biographies, not here. At this point, I would prefer to take down all the content I laboriously provided and merely direct people to the published biographies, than have this entry ravaged by people who know nothing about the subject. Particularly those paid to do so. Are you aware that Ms. Helps is paid by Brigham Young University to write and alter Wikipedia entries to benefit the University? I think she should be the one who is banned.Baron D. Z. (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:51, 25 February 2019 (UTC) There are so many redundancies now. It was NOT Willem Wagenaar who composed the Triple Concerto. You are wrong. I have recomposed some of the graceless sentences, and revived the opening paragraph. It is not acceptable to have sentences that contain unrelated topics. His notations for harp were not introduced through the International Composers Guild. So many things are getting mixed up. I tried to include some references in my revisions. I will try to find some more later. Thank you. Please help, don't unhelp.Baron D. Z. (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:15, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

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Menthon, Switzerland?
I was just trying to take care of some "red links," so I looked up Menthon, Switzerland in Google Maps. The closest I could come was Menthon-Saint-Bernard, just south of Geneva on the Lac d'Annecy, but that's in FRANCE. There's a mention of a "small village of Menthon" at Château de Menthon. Now, the political boundaries of Europe have obviously changed in the intervening century, and this place is very close to the current border, so it seems plausible that at that time it WAS in Switzerland. But my European history is even sketchier than my European geography, so I'm not going to make any bold statements here! If anyone with a keener knowledge of that area could shed some light on this quandary, I would be grateful. Or perhaps someone could figure out exactly WHERE Carlos & Mimine moved to at the beginning of WWI. Thanks! --Mpwrmnt 09:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it might well be in France; I only knew approximate location. Also, I seem to have a talent for not knowing if places are in Switzerland.

Girlfriend of Merv 10:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 02:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)