Talk:Carly Simon/Archive 1

Discography
I removed Carly's bulky discography from this page and created a new page at Carly Simon discography. I believe it was taking up a bit more space than necesary, and I feel that the setup on the main page looks better. --Chris 23:29, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * And there's some sort of inconsistence in the discography (everywhere: her own page, discography page and the template) versus the actual articles: all discographies list the christmas albums as compilations, yet still the album pages says that they are 'Studio albums'. 82.141.72.71 (talk) 01:35, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Massive
This is a huge article with more information than anyone would ever even want to know about Carly Simon. Some of the citations are slightly iffy, some aren't there at all and some of the writing is just not very good. The whole thing could be chopped down to improve the quality. Considering that this is, I think, a bigger article than Debussy gets, it also would make things more right with the world (in a little way). Gingermint (talk) 04:54, 28 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree, and I think the superfluous information is tedious and inconsequential: "...then she sang back-up on such-and-such a song on this person's record, then..." and so on, ad infinitum. TheScotch (talk) 07:55, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Jewish American Singers / African American Singers Category
Should Carly be listed as a Jewish American and African American singer because of her ancestry?

--Chris 03:50, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

It sounds like she defines herself as multiracial
I don't have an opinion one way or another and I don't know that we should get into the business of defining someone's race. I think the person themselves should define their race if they are so inclined. Just as a data point, I found the following quote from Simon from an interview she did in July, 2004: It sounds to me that she considers herself multiracial. Following the argument to its logical conclusion we would need to put her in all four categories.
 * It's pretty interesting. It didn't matter as much because I'm a singer, not an actress, but my face is more acceptable in a way now than when I first came on the scene, because I'm part black. My mother's mother was black. I'm Jewish, black, Cuban, and French.

Reservoirhill 21:28, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The term African American is problematic because it implies that the subject was born somewhere in Africa. As for Jewish American: In the first place the American here is superfluous. In the second place, Jewish status is generally considered to be conferred through matrilineality. TheScotch (talk) 00:41, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Essentially wrong on both counts. African American does not at all imply born in Africa - read the article.  And although yes, from a religious standpoint (and even then only Orthodox) one's mother has to be Jewish for you to be considered so by certain Orthodox authorities, in practice (in America at least) one is considered Jewish if one self-identifies that way, or was raised that way, etc. Tvoz / talk 16:52, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Brill Building songwriter?
It is my understanding that Carly Simon got her start in the music business as a songwriter in the well known Brill Building in New York City, NY. I don't have any references for this understanding, but have heard it numerious times. Can anyone verify this and provide references for inclusion in the article?--TGC55 15:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure you're not thinking of Carole King? &mdash; Chowbok  ☠  15:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, through the almost three years since I asked the question, I never found any reference to Carly Simon having involvement with the Brill Building. --TGC55 (talk) 10:23, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Citations Taken out of Context
On August 12, 2007, 72.68.165.124 made the following addition to the "Family" Section in "Biography" referring to Carly's mother, Andrea Louise Simon and cites Marie Brenner, "I Never Sang for My Mother", Vanity Fair, August 1995:


 * [She] claimed that her mother, Maria Heinemann (a secretary of the novelist Thomas Mann) was Moorish and the illegitimate child of a king of Spain.

I have found a transcription of the cited article and the complete paragraph is:


 * Andrea Heinemann was slim and short. With long curly hair and unusual style. She wore velvet dresses with saddle shoes. She was a self-dramatizer. Grandiose, exuberant, and imperious. She later reminded friends of Lena Horne. Andrea was given to vivid statements that may or may not have been true. She claimed that her mother was Moorish, the illegitimate daughter of King Alfonso of Spain--although the Moors were expelled from Spain in the 17th century. According to Max Schuster's daughter Pearl London, the young Andrea Heinemann was overtly sensual, discomfiting the women in her mother's set by giving off sexual vibrations. 

It seems to me that that the intent of complete paragraph is that Andrea Louise Simon may have said that her mother was Moorish and that she was the illegitimate child of a king of Spain but that this was a delusion or a "tall tale" that was not true. Therefor 72.68.165.124 should not take the 4th sentence in the paragraph out of context and present it as a true statement about Carly Simon's grandmother. Reservoirhill 20:51, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Citations & References
See Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the  tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 09:26, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Afro-American or Afro-Cuban?
Does anyone know which one for sure? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rex1932 (talk • contribs) 23:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

they've debunked the "Carly is a black woman" theory & have pix of Carly's mother - who is not black, Latina, nor biracial triracial octaroon, etc. They found out that Carly's mother was a complete fabricator & scammer, Carly is just like her and lies about being mixed race or part black and/or Latina. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.36.212.238 (talk) 04:22, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Copyright concerns
On October 27, 2008, similarity was noted here between this article and this one. Investigation suggests that they infringed on Wikipedia. According to internet archives, their profile of Simon was first published on July 11, 2007. Their prior version of that site, here, featured Jack Welch. Meanwhile, material in that profile has evolved within Wikipedia since the first edit to the article. See and note, as an example, the sentence, "Simon married Taylor in 1972 (see 1972 in music) and released another well-received album, Top Ten Hotcakes in 1974 (see 1974 in music)" (In the article as of June 29 2007, here, the text here read as it would at that external source: Simon married fellow singer-songwriter James Taylor on November 3, 1972. Simon and Taylor had two children, Sarah Maria ("Sally") born January 7, 1974 and Benjamin Simon ("Ben") Taylor born January 22, 1977, both of whom are musicians and political activists. Simon and Taylor divorced in 1983. First mention of the children was made May 2003, "Simon and Taylor had two children, Sarah Maria (b. January 7, 1974) and Benjamin Simon Taylor (b. January 22, 1977)." The divorce is first mentioned, as a clause, soon thereafter. April 2004 sees the first identification of Taylor as a "fellow singer-songwriter". Here, in September of 2005, the material on marriage and family was separated out from her musical career. In this particular case, the material seems clear. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 18:38, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Children in opening paragraph
Her children are described as 'budding musicians'. They are in their thirties, what's 'budding' about their musician status? Either they are or they are not. Jalwikip (talk) 10:29, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, removed the "budding", as well as the "themselves" (the original sentence even implied Carly herself was budding). It now just says they are musicians, period. Jalwikip (talk) 12:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Voice
She`s a soprano - I`ve found sources for it: http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/212087/review/5941590/hellobigman http://www.carlysimon.com/music/soundtracks/Piglet.shtml —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.218.188.49 (talk) 18:55, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Rolling Stone is a hardly an authoritative source for this. Rock critics often have training in journalism; very few of them have training in music--training in music is often considered a disqualification in fact. TheScotch (talk)


 * Oh Yes I agree, TheScotch, the same situation here in Italy, even about the jazz scene. Ciao.--Simoneschiaffino (talk) 14:40, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Personal life section
Is very poorly cited, a couple of comments tagged for 8 or 9 months uncited and dead links, I searched for the masectomy issue but didn'yt find a reliable source, I have tagged it and perhaps someone knows a bit more about citing her private life. Off2riorob (talk) 13:18, 15 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The fact that she underwent her surgery at the same time when one of her best friends died from the same disease is shocking, isn't it? I'm reminded of Ecclesiastes 9-11 here.


 * Regardless, I added some sources to the section. Grandma Got Divorced (talk) 03:29, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, very sad indeed, thank you for adding those. Off2riorob (talk) 10:29, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Ponzi scheme victim
Is this for real?

98.118.62.140 (talk) 14:49, 11 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Could be - he apparently swindled a lot of celebrities. And no, it is not the Kenneth Starr who went after the Clintons.  I don't think this is something to include in Simon's biography at this point, until and unless the story becomes more notable in her life.  At this point all we have is a news story, which in and of itself, doesn't confer notability.  We should watch it though.  Tvoz / talk 16:46, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

The Chrissie Hynde incident
(Moved here from the text of a reference)

Did you fight with Chrissie Hynde? One of the downsides of the Internet is that misinformation stays up there forever. Whenever I do a search on "Carly Simon", I inevitably get a link to a story about you and Chrissie Hynde getting into a fight at a concert. So I wonder what really happened between you & Chrissie Hynde at the Fez, several years ago, when Joni Mitchell played there?

Markly — Shoreline, Washington

Well, Chrissie was a bit intoxicated and yelled out during Joni's performance, which - needless to say - everybody wanted to hear. Chrissie sat right next to me and I asked for her to be a little quieter. No one else would have dared say that to her, although I (stupid me) didn't know it was Chrissie.

She started choking me in a loving way and said: "you're great, too, Carly; get up there, you need to do this, too". Very nice. The only problem was that it was right in the middle of Joni's song and people looked at US. So, I moved seats. That's all that it was about. I must say that her choking me in 'fun intoxication' looked to a lot of the audience like a fight. It was not. I just couldn't believe that no one interceded and said anything to her. I love her music and respect her as an artist. It was just one of those things. Go figure.

Love Carly Carly Simon — 4/10/02 —Preceding unsigned comment added by SciCorrector (talk • contribs) 03:13, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Carly Simon
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Carly Simon's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "allmusic.com": From Carole King: [ King Bio at Allmusic.com] From Livingston Taylor:  From Cat Stevens:  From 1970s in music: http://www.allmusic.com/explore/essay/disco-t2151 From List of artists who have covered Bob Dylan songs: [ Allmusic entry for “Bob Dylan, All Blues’d Up” album] 

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 06:00, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140822170857/http://rateyourmusic.com/list/fedderedder/rolling_stones_100_greatest_album_covers/ to http://rateyourmusic.com/list/fedderedder/rolling_stones_100_greatest_album_covers/

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Lack of frequent touring
Is there any reason why Carly didn't tour as much as James Taylor? I read somewhere that she only gave 60 concerts in her entire career, but what was the most pressing reason why she never toured frequently, if at all, let alone abroad? Carole King had stage fright, but she overcame it, and perhaps if Carly should've taken the same advice, she and James could've toured more frequently together. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.69.217.3 (talk) 08:26, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * If you read her autobiography, you would find that she had some serious problems with performing live. RGCorris (talk) 10:34, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Pix
It seems a little bit odd that all but one of the six photos of this celebrity are B&W. – Sca (talk) 22:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC)