Talk:Carmen Rasmusen

comment
Not sure why all of Traced's edits were eliminated. Nothing wrong with the comment about being the only non-32 contestant to make the top 12, since this is true. Fred Bronson comment also true and verifiable. Removed the comments about lack of vocal training, as this is not true. Sheep comments in general are not neutral POV, and Randy Jackson never said anything of the sort. This was something that got going on message boards and web sites. I only removed the two non-neutral POV comments, and will leave it at that, although I strongly believe that some of the other earlier changes should be restored. Why delete the picture? That makes no sense at all. I can see deleting any and all derogatory comments as being deemed non-neutral POV, but the same is true for deleting positive and very true things, which was done in the mass reversion. I will leave this article alone from now on, but I do think that some edits made by The Custom of Life and others have made the article LESS neutral, not more so.


 * It's been a while since I deleted the edits, but I think I deleted the picture because the copyright status was shaky, and not because I don't like her or anything. In any case, his versions went from showing both sides of her to just showing the good side, which isn't what NPOV is all about. If there are certain things you think should go in, by all means, add them back, but please post them here as well so we can discuss them. Mike H 14:18, May 13, 2005 (UTC)


 * Randy "baa"-ed her when she sang "Call Me" or one of her later songs. I have it on tape. Mike H 14:19, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for responding, Mike, and I'm sorry if I came across as rude. The picture is probably OK. As far as I know, it belongs to carmenrasmusen.com. I'm associated with that site, and I think it is OK to use it. Could you email the webmaster and ask him for sure? I know him, but don't want to give his name and email here. You can find it on the site. If it's OK, it would be nice to have the photo restored. The site is official, and they have contact with Carmen's agent, so if nothing else, he can OK it.


 * If you know him, could you do it? I'm currently at home for the summer on a slow computer, so I don't really have a whole lot of time. Thank you in advance. Mike H 02:06, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

I agree that the edits only showed the good side. That's why I left up the part about her critics being more vocal. I don't believe the sheep comment should stay because this was mainly propagated on TWoP and other attack-dog message boards and websites. This was far more influential than whatever Randy said. I think it would be OK to say that it was a common criticism from her detractors that she sounded like a sheep or a goat, as long as the specific reference to Randy is avoided.


 * Yeah, that is probably best. If you can add it back in but reworded (I don't think I can do it right), that'd be great. Mike H 02:06, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

But in addition to values/morals or whatever, her fans genuinely enjoyed her voice (even the vibrato) and found it unique. I think any sheep comment should be balanced by something like that. She DID have formal vocal training, this I know. Her teacher was named Dean Kaelin.


 * I remembered reading somewhere that he was purely qualified to train people playing instruments and not for voice technique, but I may be wrong. I used to post on TWoP and I do remember them bringing up that point many times (apparently some of the posters lived in Utah and knew his credentials). Mike H 02:06, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

I would add the part about her being the only non-32 contestant to make the top 12. This is notable and very true. Simon's comments in the book are probably unnecessary. Would more discussion about the single be OK, its title or something?


 * The non-32 part is indeed notable, and I am probably very guilty of reverting all of his edits on sight as I saw him pushing a POV. Add that back in. Mike H 02:06, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

I think my major gripe came when comparing the current version to Kimberly Caldwell's article, which, IMO, is probably closer to the "postitive" version Traced posted.


 * I haven't read the Kimberly Caldwell article. I'll take a look. Mike H 02:06, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

The "other film" referred to at the bottom ended up not featuring her, and she does not appear in it. I'm going to delete it, but wait for a response from you on the other stuff.


 * Thanks. Mike H 02:06, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

I think the page as I have edited it at this point is quite balanced. The "critically acclaimed" comment about the single "Photograph" is largely true. Fred Bronson is no slouch of a pop music afficionado. I didn't see the need to specifically mention his name. I did decide to mention that Randy was one of her harshest critics, which was certainly the case, and restored the "sheep" and "goat" references in a more general sense, since these had been made in the online community long before Randy said anything (if his reference was made after "Call Me," that is certainly the case). I also think the comments I made separating the first four performances from the last three are generally accepted, at least among her fans and more neutral observers, and also the judges for the most part. Carmen only attended BYU for one year, as it turns out, and most recently, she has been VERY visible as an interview subject in the wake of the Corey Clark scandal, so I thought it not a bad idea to mention that. Edit anything that you think is questionable. I'm going to see about a photo. If we can't use that one, I'm sure there is one that we can.

Discography (cleanup tag)
Well, someone clumsily merged the discography into this article as I requested, but it now looks a real mess. It was badly formatted to begin with, information is repeated, and there is information that is not suited to this page, and is more appropriate on the album's page. Someone who cares about this article needs to sort it out, and that is why I am adding the cleanup tag. J Milburn 22:09, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Carmen rasmusen photograph.jpg
Image:Carmen rasmusen photograph.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:Carmen photograph.jpg
Image:Carmen photograph.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 06:04, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Carmen rasmusen photograph.jpg
Image:Carmen rasmusen photograph.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 11:11, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

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