Talk:Carnelian

Infamous
Infamous: ill-famed: having an exceedingly bad reputation; "a notorious gangster"; "the tenderloin district was notorious for vice" Source: wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn It really makes no sense to refer to Japanese artist CARNELIAN as being "infamous". I believe this was a mistake and corrected it.

illustration
Isn't this illustration really wrong, this is a mineral and the picture is not of the mineral, just a seal impression of a seal made of that mineral.Moheroy 02:53, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Carnelian is an uncommon gemstone. remember that there is the gemology world out there as well, and this article just as well applies to gems as to minerals. You are looking at the article from ONE POV. SauliH 16:31, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

RGB for Carnelian Red
Is an RGB value (#B31B1B) for carnelian red appropriate here? Aintaer 06:51, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Images
Please can someone give an idea of size, such as a scale bar. This is very basic stuff. Not including these is bad practice and makes the images of very little value. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.64.39 (talk • contribs)


 * I have answered here. Best regards Rhanyeia  12:35, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Hokey etymology
Hey guys - this bit seems hokey:

"Carnelian, sometimes spelled cornelian, is a red or reddish-brown variant of chalcedony. The word is derived from the Latin word meaning horn, in reference to the flesh color sometimes exhibited."

Two different etymologies have been spliced together here, resulting in a non sequitur. The first spelling, carnelian, suggests "flesh" (as in *carn*ivore). The second, cornelian, suggests "horn" (as in uni*corn*). Both are perfectly plausible theories, but I don't see how the word can be derived from both simultaneously (i.e., "from the Latin word meaning horn, in reference to the flesh color"). Or am I being dumb? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.195.144 (talk) 16:55, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Carnelian is readily understood by speakers of latinate languages to imply that the stone resembles raw meat, or flesh. The OED supports this assertion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:6AE5:2510:0:0:0:24 (talk) 02:15, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

First use of carnelian
I believe it was mined and/or used by steppe peoples before 1800 BCE, the date given here. See David Anthony's ~The Horse, The Wheel, and Language~, but I can't find the precise reference.

Hackley
What does Hackley mean? I looked at the images and I am guessing that it refers to the black veins that seem more pronounced. Yet, I searched via google and could not find a definition for the word "Hackley" except that some university uses it as their name. Thank you very much for your time, and energy.
 * --Spike (talk) 21:14, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Part of the problem is you are using the worng spelling, the correct term is "hackly" without the "e".  the definition is: A type of fracture resembling broken metal, exhibiting sharp, jagged surfaces.--Kevmin (talk) 21:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Hackly fracture - jagged fracture with sharp edges, from Klein & Hurlbut, Manual of Mineralogy 20th ed, p.202. I assume the old 11th ed Britanica used the "ey" spelling. Vsmith (talk) 22:02, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you sure this isn't a WP:ENGVAR difference, or just an alternate spelling. Google/Books/Scholar show recent technical uses of both spellings. Johnbod (talk) 22:54, 4 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Because in modern terminology it is "hackle fracture". When a furbearing animal is frightened it "raises it's hackles", producing a characteristic appearance. Hackle fracture resembles this hackled fur. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:6AE5:2510:0:0:0:24 (talk) 02:09, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Persian Etymology used in article
Although the ancient historical records are compelling and encyclopedia Britannica does say that, the Persian dictionaries I looked at say sered means -" cold	sered - سرد   " Does anyone have an additional source that confirms sered also means yellowish red - at least in old Persian? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.42.179.151 (talk) 17:23, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

digging a lot more, I found these similar words for sard that mean red in other languages on wikipedia -

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sarkans Derived from a dialectal adjective sarks (“red, pink”), from Proto-Baltic *sark- (whence also sarkt (“to blush”), from Proto-Indo-European *ser-, *sar- (“red, pink”), with an extra -k. In the dialects that have the simple adjective sarks, sarkans has the meaning “reddish.” Cognates include Lithuanian dialectal sárkanas (“bright, clear, light; pink”), Scythian suxra (“red”), Persian سرخ‎ (sorx, “red”).[1] and sarts https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/s%C4%81rts#Latvian sorx https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%AE in farsi - sorx https://www.italki.com/question/263903

So while it seems the general tenor of the article is right about it's origin - in hebrew the same stone seems to be called odem and also means red, the reference in the article seems wrong - and gives the word in persian for "cold". "sered" means "cold" in modern farsi/persian, not red. could someone check for a better source, add sources, or otherwise update this if in error? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.42.179.151 (talk) 18:09, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

I noted that the "Dictionary of the Bible; dealing with its language, literature, and contents, including the Biblical theology; by Hastings, James, 1852-1922; Selbie, John A. (John Alexander), 1856-1931 Publication date 1898" also said here doesn't seem to be any Persian word "sered" meaning red,adding that it was in the Encyclopedia Britannica, which seems to be the commonly used cite for this by everyone. It also adds "zerd" in persian is yellow. And this book is contemporary with the encyclopedia article cited. "sered" in modern Persian is cold.

I do not think the encyclopedia article from back then was right, as no one can find the word sered means red in persian apart from that particular source. I'd advice caution using this derivation, because everyone using it is apparently getting the same enclopedia article as it's source - which is now over a hundred years old, well known, and spread everywhere, *unless* a persian dictionary, linguistic source, or otherwise can be found that says "sered" means red instead of or in addition to it meaning "cold". ie http://mylanguages.org/multimedia/persian_audio_weather.php (see sered word and pronunciation)

I do not think the original 1900 article is entirely wrong - per above. I suspect it is a "indo-european" root for red, not a persian word for red, and somehow that information was transcribed into the encyclopedia britannica article wrong - now very old. Nevertheless, the current word sered is definitely cold.