Talk:Carol Channing/Archive 1

What's my Line?
Carol made an appearance on the old black-and-white game show "What's My Line?" I think it would be nice to mention this somewhere in the article, though I have no idea where to put it. If someone thinks of a good place to add it, go right ahead. Brian Night 07:54, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Gay Icon Project
In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 20:17, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Just Lucky I Guess
This book and her African American ancestry is mentioned twice in the article. Perhaps that should be cleaned up? swirsky

Is Susan Estrich her illegitimate child? --68.35.71.113 04:07, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Irrelevant, but...
Both Ryan Stiles and Susan Estrich have been known to impersonate Carol. -- Zanimum 17:27, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Is Susan Estrich her illegitimate child? 68.35.71.113 04:07, 27 October 2005 (UTC) Huh? Michael 06:55, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Out of date external link.
CarolChanning.net leads to a holding site. No official website now, it seems. - Caleb Osment 09:10, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

She moved. It's now CarolChanning.org. - Mark Dixon 22:20, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Harry Kullijian reference
The statement that while in junior high Carol met a "man named Harry Kullijian with whom she fell in love" might give the false impression that Harry was an adult. In fact (according to Carol in a 21 August 2007 interview on KPFK radio), Harry was 13 and Carol was 12, he was in 8th grade and she in 7th. Might it be more accurate to say she met a "boy" named Harry Kullijian? Also, is Harry's Armenian ancestry really relevant to the article? - Mark Dixon 22:11, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

In the text of the article it states she married Kullijian in 2003. The right side life summary lists 2000. Which is correct? Zinza 16:34, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Naturally Truth Comes In Second
To political correctness, I mean. What a wonderful discovery that Carol Channing is of mixed race, coincidentally when she tries to sell her book. Listen, I bought "Just Lucky I Guess" at retail, which puts ME in a minority group. It needed all the help it could get, and it is not new for an author to use some controversial angle to sell a book. In this case, it is the absurd notion that Carol is of mixed race. How do we know this is nonsense? 1) The book shows her mother, but not her father. 2) She says her mother warned her she might have a black baby. But there is no photo of her son, Channing Lowe. 3) Her father's birth certificate was destroyed in a fire. 4) Carol herself- look at her. What is really annoying about do-gooders who keep reverting the truth- and of course, it will happen again- is that they think the person who recognizes this baloney for what it is- a lie to sell a book- is a racist. It is Carol herself who is the racist when she told Larry King that no white person could sing and dance as she does, which is a backhanded compliment/stereotype so old it's got hair on it. Yes, Carol, blacks are genetically programmed to sing and dance. Well, go on, Ward... revert away. Professor Von Pie 09:01,  11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Reverted, not because of your bad faith and POV assumption that I think anyone is a racist, but because the edit is not verified by the source.  Ward3001 (talk) 16:41, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Of course you assumed that. This is what you wrote to

me regarding Carol's answer to Larry King's unambiguous question as to if her father was black: "No, he was not black. I wish I had his picture. He was -- he was a -- his skin was the color of mine. I don't know maybe" You wrote: "Ambiguity about skin tone -- yes.  Ambiguity about race -- NO." Look, when Carol said, "I don't know maybe," there is no question she was specifically addressing Larry's question about her father's race. Think of your own father. Would you say, "I don't know maybe" meaning you don't know what he LOOKED like? My parents died many years ago, and yes, I can tell you the color of their skin, hair and eyes. At age 81, Carol simply forgot her fib for a moment.

But it gets better. Then you wrote: "If a famous black actress was making this statement, you would not be adding such an edit to that person's article." There is zero possibility you were not saying I'm a racist. A racist views and treats one race differently than another.

Newsflash: If Colin Powell, whose autobiography I also bought, had gone around saying, "I'm really white," to sell his book, I would have made a similar edit. Some people (okay, me) don't appreciate being lied to and/or treated like idiots. And I would be even more insulted if I were black, and told that singing and dancing- lucky me!- were in my DNA, as Carol said to Larry, among others. Professor Von Pie 01:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * 20-20 hindsight. It's easy to say what you would have written if an African-American made a comment about his parents' skin tone. If I believed you, I would believe that if someone asked Louis Armstrong, "Are your parents black?" and he responded, "My mother is darker than I am but my father is lighter", that would not refer to skin tone but to race. But I don't believe that, and I don't believe you would have made the edit you made to Carol Channing if Armstrong had said the same words she did. And that has nothing to do with whether I consider you a racist. You're the one blowing the racism issue out of proportion. I've never said explicitly or implicity that you are racist. I have simply said you have not interpreted Channing's comments correctly. I'm not arguing this point back and forth. You may be editing in good faith, but either you do not understand Channing's comments, or you don't want to understand them. I have no idea which is the case. End of discussion for me. Ward3001 (talk) 21:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Carol's assertion that she is of mixed race, oh, by the way my father's birth certificate was destroyed, and gosh, although I have a picture of my white mother for my book, I have none of my mixed race father and mixed race son, but trust me, I must be part African-American because I can sing and dance... it is utter nonsense, insulting, cynical, and it backfired-- the book bombed despite Carol's "I'm Part Black" tour. BTW, I love Carol as a unique performer; it's her lie I have a problem with, and wiki's buying into it I have a problem with.  And if you couldn't guess, I'm black, and I

didn't get the memo about it when I was 16 years old. Well, gotta go... Ah wuz jess born to dance! Did you learn anything from this exchange? I doubt it. End of discussion for me. Professor Von Pie 03:49, 11 June 2008  (UTC)


 * Well, okay, one Post-Script, since you wrote to me again... it is not a matter of hostility on my part, and not about you, Ward, it's just a respect for the truth. Now, you can grow from this experience, or just lash out.

When something just on the face of it seems outrageous, ie the world's whitest woman (see Carol's photo in the article) all of a sudden says she's mixed race, right away, a little alarm bell should go off, and one needs to look at the fuller picture: no corroborating witness is offered, no photos are provided, documentation was destroyed in a fire, and the controversial story coincides with the selling of a book. The lesson is: there are some situations that invite, actually COMPEL skepticism among diligent, rational adults; it doesn't make one a bad person. I'm not a bad person, nor are you, Ward, and I don't even blame Channing because this scam was likely her publisher's idea, which is why she stumbles and lacks clarity in the King interview. I do blame her for invoking the black singing-and-dancing genetics compliment, which, if anything, is more proof she is white. Professor Von Pie 20:35, 11 June 2008  (UTC)


 * "Did you learn anything from this exchange? I doubt it": That's about me, not the issue. And together with your earlier unfounded accusations that I implied you are a racist, constituties a personal attack, which is why you got the warning. Ward3001 (talk) 12:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

From a transcript of the Larry King interview:

KING: Lets start early in that truth. Your father was black.

CHANNING: No, he was not black. I wish I had his picture. He was -- he was a -- his skin was the color of mine. I don't know maybe. Yes, it's all right. Well any, no. My father -- you read the tabloids, don't you?

KING: No, it says in my notes your beloved father, George Channing, a newspaper editor, renowned Christian Science lecturer listed as colored on his birth certificate.

CHANNING: Yes, and the place burned down, but nobody ever knew that. But I know it. Every time I start to sing or dance, I know it, and I'm proud of it.

KING: So he was black?

CHANNING: No, He had in -- there was a picture in our family album and my grandmother said -- I never saw them. My grandfather was Nordic German and my grandmother was in the dark. And they said no that was -- she was -- and I'm so proud of it I can't tell you. When our champion gave me that last third (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on "Hello Dolly!" Again. No white woman can do it like I did. KING: So you're proud of your mixed heritage?

CHANNING: Very, when I found out. I was 16-years-old and my mother told me. And you know, only the reaction on me was, Gee, I got the greatest genes in show business.

KING: Some people years ago discovering that might have been disturbed by it?

CHANNING: Yes, years ago because when I found out about it, you don't want to do that.

KING: You don't say it.

CHANNING: You don't say it. There's a lot of it down South.

KING: People are ashamed of it.

CHANNING: I'd proud of it.

KING: I'm glad to hear it.

CHANNING: I really am. I mean look, what makes you, you? You don't know. None of us knows our heritage. Not in the United States.

KING: We're all immigrants.

CHANNING: Exactly, this is the changing face of America. I'm part of it. Isn't it wonderful?

KING: You damn right.

24.189.90.68 (talk) 00:02, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Quadroon
Carol Channing is not an African-American, nor has anyone, including she, ever claimed otherwise. Based solely on her word her father was allegedly a light-skinned man who was partially black, making her (Carol) at most a quadroon, if that!!. Based on the totality of her life and appearance to label her as African-American would silly, unrealistic and uncorroborated. Underbilled &amp; Overworked (talk) 16:56, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You might want to read the article before jumping to conclusions. She has identified her father as African-American. And it doesn't matter how "light-skinned" her father was. Skin tone does not define ethnicity. Tiger Woods is one-fourth AA and considered African-American. Your statements are based only on your opinions. Ward3001 (talk) 17:01, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * With all due respect, it does seem inaccurate to describe Channing as an African-American. "She has identified her father as African-American." Exactly but her "father's birth certificate was destroyed in a fire", and as pointed out "Skin tone does not define ethnicity". The question then is if she regards herself as African-American. Also Tiger Woods refers "to himself" as CaBlAsian (Caucasian, Black and Asian). Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 13:23, 1 November 2010 (UTC)


 * There are countless people categorized as a certain race or ethnicity on Wikipedia, despite never explicitly stating "I am a member of [ethnic group]". That is because it is an ascribed identity based on heredity, and Wikipedia reflects that social reality. Channing has stated that her father was African-American, thus she is placed in that category. Skotticus (talk) 15:33, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

I notice that there is no mention of Ms. Channing's natural hair coloring anywhere in the article or in this discussion, and it seems that her white-blonde hair has been a life-long feature of her professional image. But what is her natural hair color? Janice Vian, Ph.D. (talk) 17:08, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Never missed a performance
I took my grandmother to see Carol Channing in Hello, Dolly! at Miller Auditorium in Kalamazoo, sometime in the mid-90's. To my grandma's disappointment, Ms. Channing was sick and her understudy took the role for the night. I don't know the exact date of the performance, but it's not true that she never missed a performance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.89.150.96 (talk) 22:01, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

I just heard her say that she missed that Kalamazoo performance on the Wendy Williams show airing 22 July 2010. I think it must be true.24.170.165.15 (talk) 02:04, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

What people "think" or "recall" are irrelevant. Cite sources. That you "heard it on the radio" and that your opinion is "it must be true" have no relevancy.(24.62.100.251 (talk)) —Preceding undated comment added 00:48, 14 December 2011 (UTC).

Carol Channing homes
I was told that Carol Channing owned a home in Steele City Nebraska for many years. Is this true ? Can anyone tell me about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tstarr111 (talk • contribs) 16:17, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems very unlikely. She was raised in California and currently lives in Modesto, California with her husband. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 13:17, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

This is not the IMDB chat forums. Try to keep this sort of discussion off Wikipedia.(24.62.100.251 (talk) 00:41, 14 December 2011 (UTC))

Mother Jewish
The article states "Her mother was born Jewish", citing page 50 of Channing's autobiography. What does the book say? I can't access it myself. Her mother was born Adelaide Glaser in Nebraska, and her own mother's maiden name was "Ottoman". Here she says her heritage is unclear on her mother's side. All Hallow&#39;s Wraith (talk) 00:17, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

TV mixed in the Filmography
The Filmography section includes "Family Guy: 'Patriot Games' (2006)" and "Magnum, P.I.", but these are TV not films. Perhaps there is even more TV work mixed into the section. I am not sure whether to fix this by renaming the section or by creating a new TV section. What do others think? HairyWombat 20:04, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Later. I have created a new TV section, and moved across the obvious ones. I am not American, so will have missed others. HairyWombat 21:27, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Missed performance statement removed - unsourced
I removed the following statement from the article:


 * "She missed only one performance, to attend the funeral of the comedienne Gracie Allen. Her standby Bibi Osterwald played that performance."

I can find no sources for this information, but can find three sources that contradict it. The first is an article in the Lewiston Daily Sun from September 1, 1964, about Gracie Allen's funeral which states that:


 * "Carol Channing used her day off from the Broadway hit 'Hello, Dolly' to fly to Beverly Hills to console George Burns, long-timer husband and partner of Miss Allen.


 * "'I was in New York and I got worried about George. I just wanted to be with him and cheer him a little,' said Miss Channing. She flew back Sunday night." (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1928&dat=19640901&id=qIEpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ymYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=7254,6492033)

Also, an obit for Bibi Osterwald at Playbill.com seems to contradict the statement:


 * "Actress Bibi Osterwald, the original standby for Carol Channing in Jerry Herman's Hello, Dolly!, died Jan. 7, according to her friend Peter Howard. She was 81.


 * "Ms. Osterwald eventually got to play Dolly Levi, filling the role for a week in November 1967, right between the tenures of Betty Grable and Pearl Bailey." (http://www.playbill.com/news/article/67180-Actress-Bibi-Osterwald-Original-Dolly-Standby-Is-Dead-at-81)

&mdash;D'Ranged 1 talk 08:43, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

She is certainly MOST famous for "Hello, Dolly," NOT for "Gentlemen," as stated in the first paragraph. Unclemikejb2 (talk) 02:42, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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