Talk:Carol Queen/Archive 1

Female ejaculation
This article is missing a very significant part of Queen's sexological output, namely her instructional video on female ejaculation. It does exist (I've seen it myself, as a matter of fact). I do not have exact details on it, but I know that GoodVibrations.com, if it does not presently stock it, does know about it (I rented it from their San Francisco storefront); if you call and ask them, they can probably provide the details. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 09:02, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Queen of Heaven
The article is also missing info, even mention, of something Queen is also famous for: her "Queen of Heaven" sex parties. These too also exist; I and a ladyfriend of mine were invited to one, by her and her partner, after meeting at an event in San Francisco. (We did not attend; I know others who have, though.) I don't think they are any form of secret, so they should probably be researched and added to the article. Frankly, they are pretty legendary, and have inspired many others to hold similar private and semi-private events. &mdash; SMcCandlish &#91;talk&#93; &#91;contrib&#93; ツ 09:05, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Weasel words
This article includes weasel words, such as the phrase "...is perhaps best known for..." These should really be re-written with specific sources quoted as saying this is what she is best known for. Johntex\talk 04:51, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Missing information
The article fails to mention that Queen is a man-hating lesbian who's idea of "sex-positive feminist" activities includes denigrating and humiliating men, such as anally raping them with a plastic dildo.
 * The article does, in some sense, make mention of these aspects of her work and career, albeit not so perjoratively. i might suggest, if you are genuinely interested in making malekind look better in general, you may want to sign your comments when you decide to use a talk page as a soapbox, instead of just making your vindictive contribution from an anonymous IP like a gutless wiener. --PopeFauveXXIII 00:27, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * P.S. Queen is not a lesbian but a bisexual and the man she is supposedly humiliating in the Bend Over Boyfriend is, in fact, her partner of many years (I think 30+). Benjiboi 14:41, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Removed
The following resume-like material might be useful but needs to conform to the Manual of Style or otherwise be converted into prose as appropriate. -- Banj e b oi   06:58, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Contributor

 * Readers in Cultural Criticism: Queer Theory, by Iain Morland (Palgrave Macmillan, 2004) ISBN 1-4039-1694-2
 * The Burning Pen: Sex Writers on Sex Writing, M. Christian, ed. (Alyson Books, 2001) ISBN 1-55583-615-1
 * More Totally Herotica (Herotica 4, 4), Marcy Sheiner, ed. (Down There Press, 1996) ISBN 978-0965015622
 * Wetting the Appetite: The Collected Erotic Fiction of Blake C. Aarens, Foreword by Carol Queen (Suspect Thoughts Press, 2006) ISBN 0-9771582-4-1
 * Everything You Know About Sex Is Wrong: The Disinformation Guide to the Extremes of Human Sexuality (and everything in between), Ed. Russ Kick (The Disinformation Company, 2005) Orgies: A Brief Paean and a Few Practical Thoughts
 * Best American Sex Writing 2005, ed. Violet Blue (Cleis, 2005)
 * I Do/I Don’t: Queers on Marriage, ed. Greg Wharton and Ian Philips (Suspect Thoughts, 2004) Always a Cultural Deconstructionist, Never a Bride
 * That’s Revolting! Queer Strategies for Resisting Assimilation, ed. Matt Bernstein Sycamore (Soft Skull, 2004) Never a Bridesmaid, Never a Bride [same as the I Do/I don’t essay with small edits and a new title]
 * Paying For It: A guide by sex workers for their clients, ed. Greta Christina (Greenery Press, 2004) Memo to My Clients: How to Keep Your Job
 * Master, ed. N.T. Morley (Venus Book Club, 2004) and Grifter slave, ed. N.T. Morley (Venus Book Club, 2004) Inexorable [these two books were published in one volume]
 * Juicy Erotica, ed. Alison Tyler (Pretty Things Press, 2004) The Bounty of Summer
 * 5 Minute Erotica, ed. (Running Press, 2003) The Bounty of Summer
 * Best SM Erotica: Extreme Tales of Extreme Sex, ed. M. Christian (Black Books, 2003) Knife
 * Hot and Bothered 4, ed. Karen X. Tulchinsky (Arsenal Pulp Press, 2003) She’s Not a Lesbian
 * Electric 2: Best Lesbian Erotic Fiction, ed. Nicole Foster (Alyson, 2003) A Show for a Showgirl
 * Guilty Pleasures: True Tales of Erotic Indulgence, ed. M. Christian (Black Books, 2002) The Babysitter’s Tale (or, the Fine Edge of Disaster)''
 * ''Journal of Bisexuality Volume 2, Number 2/3 -- Bisexual Women in the Twenty-first Century, ed. Fritz Klein and Dawn Atkins (Harrington Park Press, 2002)
 * Lesbian Love in the Swingin’ ‘70s: A Bisexual Memoir [published separately in book form under the title Bisexual Women in the Twenty-first Century]
 * Opposing Viewpoints: Pornography, ed. Helen Cothran (Greenhaven Press, 2002) Anti-Pornography Feminists Harm the Women’s Movement
 * The Burning Pen: Sex writers on Sex Writing, ed. M. Christian (Alyson, 2001) What Do Women Want? We Want to Be Big Slutty Fags, Among Other Things and After the Light Changed
 * Of the Flesh: Dangerous New Fiction, ed. Greg Wharton (Suspect Thoughts Press, 2001) Blowjob City
 * Best Bisexual Women’s Erotica, ed. Cara Bruce (Cleis, 2001) Hair Club for Bisexuals
 * Journal of Bisexuality Volume 1, Number 1, ed. Fritz Klein (Harrington Park Press, 2001) Bisexuals Help Create the Standards for Safer Sex: San Francisco 1981-1987 (with Robert Morgan Lawrence)
 * The Mammoth Book of Best New Erotica, ed. Maxim Jakubowski (Carroll & Graf, 2001) The Heart in My Garden
 * Starf*krs, ed. Shar Rednour (Alyson, 2001) A Show for a Showgirl
 * Best Bisexual Erotica Volume 2, ed. with Bill Brent (Circlet/Black Books, 2001) Lucky Pierre
 * Best Women's Erotica 2001, ed. Marcy Sheiner (Cleis, 2001) The Heart in My Garden''
 * Readings in Contemporary Sexuality, ed. John P. Elia and Albert J. Angelo (Kendall/Hunt, 2000) Bisexual, Sexual Diversity, and the Sex-Positive Perspective Sex Work: A Contemporary Introduction to the World’s Oldest Trade
 * Best American Erotica 2000, ed. Susie Bright (Touchstone/Simon and Schuster, 2000) From The Leather Daddy and the Femme
 * Best of the Best Gay Erotica (Cleis, 2000) Ganged
 * Best of the Best Lesbian Erotica, ed. Tristan Taormino (Cleis, 2000) Ariel Male Lust: Pleasure, Power, and Transformation, ed. Kerwin Kay, Jill Nagle, and Baruch Gold (The Haworth Press, 2000) Elegy for My Father's Dick
 * Best Bisexual Erotica, ed. with Bill Brent (Circlet/Black Books, 2000) Like a Virgin
 * Aqua Erotica, ed. Mary Anne Mohanraj (Three Rivers Press, 2000) Hot Springs
 * Unlimited Desires: An International Anthology of Bisexual Erotica, ed. Laurence Brewer, Kevin Lano, and Trish Oak (BiPress, London, 2000) After the Light Changed
 * Viscera: An Anthology of Bizarre Erotica, ed. Cara Bruce (Venus or Vixen, 2000) Knife
 * Strategic Sex: Why They Won't Keep It in the Bedroom, ed. D. Travers Scott (The Haworth Press, 1999) Porno/Formance: Some Notes on Sex as Art
 * Tricks and Treats: Sex Workers Write About Their Clients, ed. Matt Bernstein Sycamore (The Haworth Press, 1999) Toward a Taxonomy of Tricks: A Whore Considers the Age-Old Question, “What Do Clients Want?”
 * Hot and Bothered 2, ed. Karen X. Tulchinsky (Arsenal Pulp Press, 1999) Social Skills
 * This Is What Lesbian Looks Like, ed. Kris Kleindienst (Firebrand, 1999) Lesbian/Sex: About What We Do and Desire, and Its Relation to Community and Identity (Or, How I Learned to Love the Sex Wars)
 * The Oy of Sex, ed. Marcy Sheiner (Cleis, 1999) L'Chaim: A Shiksa's Story
 * Herotica 6, ed. Marcy Sheiner (Down There Press, 1999) Being Met
 * Best Lesbian Erotica 1999, ed. Tristan Taormino (Cleis, 1999) The Letter
 * Eros Ex Machina: Eroticizing the Mechanical, ed. M. Christian (Masquerade, 1998) The Inheritance ''[reprinted under the title Sex Machines: Eroticizing the Mechanical, Venus Book Club, 2002]
 * Brief Encounters: Stories of Love, Sex, and Travel, ed. Michelle de Kretser (Lonely Planet, 1998) Sweating Profusely in Merida [translated into Dutch in 2002, published under the title Korte ontmoetingen]
 * Sex Spoken Here: Stories from the Good Vibrations Erotic Reading Circle, ed. with Jack R. Davis (Down There Press, 1998) Artemis
 * Herotica 5, ed. Marcy Sheiner (Plume/NAL, 1998) Marilyn
 * Girljock: The Book, ed. Roxxie (St. Martin's, 1998) The Sauna
 * Same Sex: Debating the Ethics, Science, and Culture of Homosexuality, ed. John Corvino (Rowman and Littlefield, 1997) Strangers at Home: Bisexual in the Queer Movement
 * Portraits of Love: Lesbians Writing About Love, ed. Susan Fox Rogers and Linda Smukler (St. Martin's, 1997) Portrait of Carol and Janelle (with Janelle Davis)
 * Noirotica 2: Pulp Friction, ed. Thomas Roche (Masquerade, 1997) Heaven Sent
 * The Ecstatic Moment: The Best of Libido, ed. Marianna Beck and Jack Hafferkamp (Delta/Dell, 1997) Warm Silk [also published in Australia by Bantam]
 * Bitch Goddess: The Spiritual Path of the Dominant Woman, ed. Pat Califia and Drew Campbell (Greenery Press, 1997) Cleo DuBois Interview
 * I Am My Lover, ed. Joani Blank (Down There Press, 1997) ''Intro to my photo set
 * Best Lesbian Erotica 1997, ed. Tristan Taormino (Cleis, 1997) Ariel
 * Whores and Other Feminists, ed. Jill Nagle (Routledge, 1997) Sex Radical Politics, Sex-Positive Feminist thought, and Whore Stigma
 * Tales from the Clit, ed. Cherie Matrix (AK Press, 1997) The Four-Foot Phallus
 * Queer View Mirror 2, ed. James C. Johnstone and Karen X. Tulchinsky (Arsenal Pulp Press, 1997) Hot 'n' Hunky
 * PoMoSexuals: Challenging Assumptions About Gender and Sexuality, ed. with Lawrence Schimel (Cleis, 1997) - winner of a 1998 Lambda Literary Award Beyond the Valley of the Fag Hags
 * The International Encyclopedia of Sexuality, ed. Robert Francoeur (Continuum, 1997) Bisexuality in the US (with Robert Morgan Lawrence)
 * Mammoth Book of International Erotica, ed. Maxim Jakubowski (Robinson, 1996) Sweating Profusely in Merida: A Memoir
 * Sexualities, ed. Marny Hall (The Haworth Press, 1996) Women, SM, and Therapy
 * First Person Sexual, ed. Joani Blank (Down There Press, 1996) Warm Silk
 * Sons of Darkness, ed. Michael Rowe and Thomas S. Roche (Cleis, 1996) Feeding
 * Best Gay Erotica 1996, ed. Michael Thomas Ford (Cleis, 1996) Ganged
 * Coming Up: The World's Best Erotica, ed. Michael Perkins (Richard Kasak, 1996) Hot Springs
 * Herotica 4, ed. Marcy Sheiner (Plume/NAL, 1996) The Best Whore in Hillsboro
 * Noirotica, ed. Thomas S. Roche (Masquerade, 1996) Silencer
 * Once Upon a Time: Erotic Fairy Tales for Women, ed. Michael Thomas Ford (Richard Kasak, 1996) Puss in Boots: Or, Clever Mistress Cat
 * Switch Hitters: Lesbians Write Gay Male Erotica and Gay Men Write Lesbian Erotica, ed. with Lawrence Schimel, (Cleis, 1996) Poster Boy
 * The Second Coming, ed. Pat Califia and Robin Sweeney (Alyson, 1996) Bisexual Perverts Among the Leather Lesbians: Some Thoughts on Border-Crossing
 * Bisexuality: The Psychology and Politics of an Invisible Minority, ed. Beth Firestein (Sage, 1996) Bisexuality, Sexual Diversity, and the Sex-Positive Perspective
 * Bisexual Politics: Theories, Queries, and Visions, ed. Naomi Tucker (The Haworth Press, 1995) Sexual Diversity and Bisexual Identity
 * More Out Thank In: Notes on Sex, Art, and Community, ed. Keith Hennessy and Rachel Kaplan (848 Community Space, 1995) Fear No Art (with Robert Lawrence) [expanded version in Strategic Sex: Why They Won't Keep It in the Bedroom, 1999]
 * Virgin Territory, ed. Shar Rednour (A Richard Kasak Book, 1995) The Happy Baby
 * Looking For Mr. Preston: A Tribute to John Preston, ed. Laura Antoniou (A Richard Kasak Book, 1995) Ganged
 * Totally Herotica, ed. Susie Bright and Joani Blank (Quality Paperback Book Club, 1995) At Dr. D'Amour's Party and Sweating Profusely in Merida
 * Women of the Light, ed. Kenneth Ray Stubbs (Secret Garden, 1994) The Call Girl
 * Herotica 3, ed. Susie Bright (Plume/NAL, 1994) Sweating Profusely in Merida
 * Dagger: On Butch Women, ed. Lily Burana, Roxxie, and Linnea Due (Cleis, 1994) Why I Love Butch Women
 * Doing It For Daddy, ed. Pat Califia (Alyson, 1994) The Leather Daddy and the Femme, Part 1: After the Light Changed and The Leather Daddy and the Femme, Part 2: The Next Morning
 * The Best American Erotica 1994, ed. Susie Bright (Touchstone/Simon and Schuster, 1994) Sweating Profusely in Merida
 * The Best American Erotica 1993, ed. Susie Bright (Collier/Macmillan, 1993) Golden Boy
 * Madonnarama, ed. Lisa Frank and Paul Smith (Cleis, 1993) Talking About Sex
 * Leatherwomen, ed Laura Antoniou (Masquerade, 1993) Knife
 * Herotica 2, ed. Susie Bright and Joani Blank (Plume/NAL, 1992) At Dr. D'Amour's Party
 * The Erotic Impulse, ed. David Steinberg (Jeremy Tarcher, 1992) Erotic Power and Trust
 * Bi Any Other Name: Bisexual People Speak Out, ed. Loraine Hutchins and Lani Kaahumanu (Alyson, 1991) The Queer in Me

Editorial Boards

 * The Journal of Bisexuality
 * Libido Magazine (now defunct)

Interviews in Books

 * Modern Pagans, ed. V. Vale and John Sulak (RE/Search, 2001)
 * Sex Tips & Tales From Women Who Dare by Jo-Anne Baker (Hunter House, 2001)
 * The Red Thread of Passion by David Guy (1999)
 * Pictured in I Am My Lover, ed. Joani Blank (Down There Press, 1997)
 * Pictured in Femalia, ed. Joani Blank (Down There Press, 1993)
 * Good Sex by Julia Hutton (Cleis, 1992)
 * Some Of My Best Friends Are Naked by Tim Keefe (Barbary Coast, 1992)
 * Lesbian Crossroads by Ruth Baetz (Wm. Morrow, 1980)

Television Interviews

 * Channel 4 - London
 * Chum City TV - Canada
 * Montel Williams Show – unaired
 * Phil Donahue Show
 * HBO - Real Sex
 * Discovery Canada - Masturbation
 * The History Channel – Modern Marvels
 * ShowTime - Penn and Teller
 * People are Talking – San Francisco local show
 * QTV San Francisco – local color

Interviews in Documentary Films

 * IA films Inc. - Dildo Diaries (2002)
 * BellyGirl Flims - Our Bodies Our Minds 2001
 * Rosa von Praunheim - Einstein of Sex (1999)

Interviews & articles online

 * "Long Live the Kink and Queen" by Sasha for Eye Weekly
 * Interview at Sexuality.org
 * Interview at SuicideGirls
 * Erotic Writing—an audio interview with Carol Queen - discusses her writing process, why it’s meaningful to her, and what turns her on

Adult Movie appearances

 * Bend Over Boyfriend – 1998

Magazines and periodicals

 * Cosmopolitan
 * East Bay Express
 * Elle
 * Journal of Woman and Sex Therapy
 * Mademoiselle
 * Marie Claire
 * On Our Backs
 * Playboy.com
 * San Francisco Bay Guardian
 * San Francisco Chronicle
 * The Spectator
 * Toronto Eye
 * Vogue
 * Esquire
 * Toronto Free Press

Education

 * Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality, San Francisco - Doctorate of Philosophy (Ph.D.), Human Sexuality (1998)
 * University of Oregon, graduate work in Department of Sociology (1985-86)
 * University of Oregon, Eugene, Oregon - BS Sociology (Cum Laude & Phi Beta Kappa) (1985)
 * University of Oregon, Honors College (1974-75)

Employment

 * Good Vibrations (1990-present)
 * Co-founder and director, The Center for Sex and Culture, San Francisco (1994-present)
 * Faculty, Skolos, San Francisco (1999)
 * Director, Carol Queen Workshops (1992-present)
 * Training Staff, San Francisco Sex Information Volunteer Switchboard (1990-1993)
 * Training Coordinator, San Francisco Sex Information (1992-93)
 * Director of Education, Willamette AIDS Council, Eugene, Oregon (1988)
 * Board of Directors, Willamette AIDS Council (1985-86)
 * Graduate Teaching Fellow, Department of Sociology, University of Oregon (1985-86)
 * Director, Gay and Lesbian Student Alliance, University of Oregon (1977-79)
 * Steering Committee, Eugene Citizens for Human Rights (1978-79)
 * Co-founder and Director, GAYouth (one of the first groups for underage Gays and Lesbians in the nation), Eugene, Oregon (1975-78)

Memberships & Affiliations

 * Woodhull Freedom Foundation & Federation (Board member, 2004-present)
 * Free Speech Coalition (Board member, 1999-2000)
 * The Sexologists' Sexual Health Project - IASHS
 * The Society for the Scientific Study of Sexuality
 * The American Academy of Clinical Sexologists (Associate Fellow)
 * Center for Sex and Culture – Director
 * Coalition for Healthy Sex
 * American Association of Sex Educators, Counselors and Therapists (AASECT)

Absexual
I have recently created an article for this word because Carol Queen was referenced as volunteering it for the DSM-V in the midst of commenting on changes that should occur to various sexual references in the upcoming edition. A link to this is in the article. I am wondering if she coined this originally, or if she heard it from the Betty Dodson interview, or if possible they both got it from a common source or a common slang term in general. It's not something I've encountered but it might exist as popular slang circulated in certain regions so I want to find out. Tyciol (talk) 03:59, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Abusive blanket-deletion by Hullaballoo Wolfowitz
One Hullaballoo Wolfowitz, a person with a reputation for conduction blanket-deletions of contributions without prior discussion, has now been blanket-deleting my contributions to this entry. He did not issue a discussion on this talk-page explaining the reason behind his blanket-deletions of my contributions, but lazily and carelessly tagged them "vandalism". Deleting the "Criticism" contribution and tagging it as supposed "vandalism", thus denying the fact that Queen has some very vocal critics, makes this entry less neutral, not more. Queen is a very sharp and blunt critic herself and her writing, in which she openly attacks anyone who doesn't agree with her, has earned her several critics of her own, whether you and her like it or not. I am re-adding the deleted contributions, and will consider requesting an intervention from the admins if HW attempts to redelete my contributions. I will also consider blanket-deleting all my contributions so far myself, so as to leave this entry in the exact same mess I found it when I first started working on it. Let Hullaballoo Wolfowitz clean the whole thing up all by himself then. 145.18.242.63 (talk) 14:08, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Stop lying. Your edits were flagged by an automated review system for "possible BLP issue or vandalism." I reviewed the edits, found the automated tagging reliable in this case, and removed them with an edit summary referring to WP:COATRACK and WP:BLP. Rather than paying attention to the content problems, which were originally identified by the "abuse filter" process, you chose to reinstate them while posting various personal attacks on me. You're responsible for your own edits, your IP addresses indicate no editing outside of this article, and no edits before yesterday -- but you show an experienced knowledge of Wikipedia processes, indicating that you're a sockpuppet. If you're not going to edit responsibly and in accordance with Wikipedia policies and guidelines, it should be no surprise that your edits are removed. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk)
 * Hullaballoo Wolfowitz, I have noticed you are continuing your abusive disruptive editing for this entry. You are continuing to blanket-delete contributions without prior or after-the-fact discussion about your motivations. You refuse to explain how deleting the entire contribution titled "Criticism" aids the neutrality of the entry. I am now going to restore the contributions you have again abusively deleted, and am requesting an immediate intervention against you from the admins. Your reputation as an abusive disruptive editor is a matter of public record that anyone who has read your personal talk-page can ascertain for themselves. If you think those editors "hounded" you before, you ain't seen nothing yet.145.18.242.63 (talk) 16:07, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * To 145, first and foremost: because someone removed your edits does not mean that they are against you or that they are engaging in "disruptive behavior." I can attest to the fact that your edits did trigger an automatic edit filter tag, that may violate BLP. And in layman's terms, this means that what you have contributed will most likely need to be re-written as per WP:BLP policy. We welcome any and all positive contributions but baseless attacks here are unacceptable. A8  UDI  17:18, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Responding to A8, "all positive contributions but baseless attacks here are unacceptable", denying the fact that a person has critics and sabotaging the entire criticism section is not "positive", it is negative because it makes entries less neutral by suggesting that the subject has received nothing but praise. I am willing to discuss specific critics, but HW went ahead and blanket-deleted the entire criticism section. Would you or he care to explain how a respected feminist doctor at the University of Melbourne criticizing Queen in an article published in an academic resource is "baseless"? Cleary HW is engaged in edit-warring because he wants to maintain the impression that the subject has no critics. Your kneejerk allegation of "baseless resources" in my contributions is hereby rejected. 145.18.242.63 (talk) 16:13, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * (EC) IP145, probably the best thing here would be for you to bring your proposed additions to the talk page. HW has explained above why he deleted your contributions, rather than both sides edit war over them and make this a BLP discussion, why not bring it to the talk page so that other editors can comment and gain consensus to add them? Dayewalker (talk) 17:21, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Daywalker, I would love to "bring [my] proposed additions to the talk page", but it is evident that HW does not want to have a discussion about his blanket-deletion of new contributions. Whatever happened to "assume goodwill on the part of new editors"? All I am seeing is kneejerk deletion, and some vague reference to WP:COATRACK and WP:BLP is certainly not going to help me understand what your automated PoS thinks is wrong with my contributions to tag them as vandalism. If HW was assuming goodwill on the part of a new editor, which he clearly doesn't (read his talk-page for examples of HW repeatedly assuming ill-will), he would have started a discussion himself here on the talk-page, indicating which entries he deleted and why. He has also not explained why he mainted some of the other edits I made. Why were those apparently more to his liking? If he insists that what I am doing is pure vandalism, then why didn't he just go ahead and delete all of my new contributions, instead of just some of them? It's is evident that HW is acting as a sycophant for the subject, not on the basis of wanting a neutral and unbiased entry. Why else would HW sabotage the entire "Criticism" section? He wants to create the illusion that the subject has no critics whatsoever, which is deceptive and makes the entry more biased, not more neutral. Furthermore, he has deceptively deleted a comment I left on his user talk-page warning him that I would not put up with his edit-warring and would report him. He has deceptively deleted this warning so as to create the impression that I did not warn him before reporting him. Care to explain how I am to have a civil discussion with some so evidently unwilling to engage other editors in discussion, to the point that he would delete prior warnings from his talk-page? 145.18.242.63 (talk) 16:13, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Please don't use a good faith question as an opportunity to attack another editor, especially since HW is not the only editor who has disagreed with your edits. As I said, you are welcome to bring your proposed changes here to this talk page for discussion. HW has nothing to do with that. Dayewalker (talk) 18:04, 29 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I very much disagree with Hullaballoo Wolfowitz's style and deletions in many cases. But they got this one right. That material was a coatrack that aimed at doing nothing but smearing a BLP, and the subject seems to be incredibly well-known and respected as an authority. Most troubling IMHO, was an attack cite equivocating as advocating for the sexual abuse of children. That's patently false, and of course, libelous. Repeating such claims here with non-reliable source is completely unacceptable. If you want a neutral hearing on any source ask at WP:RSN to see which if any of the sources you wish to include are acceptable, and what could they be used to state. In this way you have a foundation to build on to propose new additions in a contentious area. -- Banj e  b oi   22:11, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In response to Benjiboi, first "equivocating as advocating for the sexual abuse of children. That's patently false, and of course, libelous", care to specify? You can't, because none of the critics I resourced ever said such a thing; Queen was criticized for her use of the term "consent", which Alfred Kinsey (her academic role-model) defined differently in the context of his sexology than the pedestrian use of the term. Care to explain how criticism on the academic definition and use of terms is "libelous"? As for you suggesting that my new contribtions are "doing nothing but smearing a BLP", if that were the case, why have you and HW maintained the new contribution on "SHARP" by my hand? And the entry on "pompsexual", also by my hand? And me trying to clean up this messy article? Why didn't you just go ahead and delete those as well, and return the entry to the mess I found it in before I stated working on it? If vandalism were the case, you would have deleted those entries as well. So your claims of vandalism are hereby rejected. It is clear that I am not trying to vandalize anything, I am trying to write an article that is neutral and unbiased, not promotional and sycophantic like the entry I encountered when I first came upon it. As for your other statement, "the subject seems to be incredibly well-known and respected as an authority", so is Dr. Sheila Jeffreys of the University of Melbourne, but since she is a Queen critic instead of a Queen sycophant, informing people of her criticism of Queen published in a respectable academic resource must be censored by the likes of you and HW, because you two just can't bare the though of making this entry more neutral and unbiased by having a "Criticism" section that informs readers to the fact that Queen has critics, and very scholarly and respected ones at that. 145.18.242.63 (talk) 16:13, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Amongst other gems we have - Queen's use of the term "consent" [...] places the victim of sex-crimes at the mercy of the perpetrator who alone decides what counts as consent: "'Consent' means the offender perceives the victim as consenting (...) A child then can be seen to 'consent' if it screams, cries, and such but if the molester determines these. This is what is accomplished by WP:Coatracking and it's completely unacceptable especially on a WP:BLP. The other content was also obviously slanted and POV thus violating WP:NPOV, WP:Undue, WP:Harm and let's add WP:RS just to be sure you know references supporting negative content need to be reliable. -- Banj e  b oi   04:02, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Restoring state of entry before edit-warring
Returned article to the state I found it as per the 27 October 2009 diff. Have fun cleaning up the mess I orginally found it in and researching everything yourselves. I've had it with you sycophants. I am not even going to say "you can't recognize a real honest contribution when you see one" because you sycophants don't want proper contributions and unbiased articles. 145.18.242.63 (talk) 16:30, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I've reverted your wholesale reversion. If you don't want to work on this article any further, that's certainly your right. However, please don't make massive changes on your way out. Dayewalker (talk) 18:06, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 10:58, 29 April 2016 (UTC)