Talk:Carrier language

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 8 September 2020 and 18 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Emeraldschreier.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:52, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Untitled
I have changed "formerly known as Carrier" to "for whom Carrier is the usual English name". It is simply not true that "Carrier" is no longer used. In fact, "Carrier" is the term commonly used both by non-Carrier people and, in English, by Carrier people themselves. (Note, for example, the name of the Carrier Sekani Tribal Council.) The term "Carrier" is not pejorative, either etymologically or in actual use. Some Carrier people prefer to use "Dakelh" in English, but very few insist that people with no knowledge of the language should do so. There is a broad issue concerning the use of indigenous vs. non-indigenous names, which has arisen to a limited extent among Carrier people, but it is not accurate to say that there has been a shift from "Carrier" to "Dakelh". Bill


 * thank you for clarifying this. i think that many Wikipedian editors assume that all peoples are switching to "native" names. peace – ishwar  (speak)  19:22, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

This is a complicated issue. Some peoples do have strong feelings about what name is used for them, often where the common external name is pejorative. My impression is, however, that a lot of the impetus for use of native names by outsiders does not come from the people themselves but is a form of political correctness. Also, there is a difference between use of the native name in the territory and outside of it. For non-native people to use the native name in or near the territory is arguably a courtesy that acknowledges the association of the people with the territory. This motivation disappears away from the territory.

In the case of the languages of British Columbia, the one case that I can think of in which a native term has come to replace the earlier English name is that of Nuuchanulth, which seems to have pretty much replaced Nootka. I'm not quite sure why this is.

I have written a paper that discusses the ethical issues: The Names of the First Nations Languages of British Columbia Bill 07:37, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Status
I removed the characterization of the language teachers in SD91 as "certified", for two reasons. First, they are not always certified - I'm pretty sure that some of them are still teaching on letters of permission. Second, "certified" suggests that the language teachers are fully qualified teachers, which is not the case. No Carrier language teacher possesses a regular teaching certificate. The certificate that those who are certified possess is the "First Nations Interim Language Teacher Certificate". To obtain this certificate requires only that the person be proficient in the language and considered suitable by his or her community. It does not require any particular training, knowledge of language teaching methods, or analytic knowledge of the language. Bill 08:12, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Very thorough, a bit more "lay" content would be useful
Very thorough; like all linguistics-oriented articles a bit more "lay" content would be better than the academic/IPA emphasis that's typical; useful "beginner" stuff like word lists, basic sentences, interesting words etc. Skookum1 (9 May 06)

Plateau/Subarctic?
I'm wonderng why the Carrier are classed as subarctic and not plateau, in terms of regional groupings; this aren't phylal, right, I mean, Athapaskan is in both groups; and to me, as a geographer (if not a linguist) the plateau ends north of Prince George, i.e. including the Nechako/McGregor Plateau. The reason for this query is the idea of Peoples of the Northwest Plateau or Peoples of the North American Plateau, whatever terminology is crrect; see Indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coast. Is the division plateau/subarctic entirely arbitrary? If s, it should be revised, given the joint tribal councils and occasionally joint bands/communities of Tshilqt'in and Carrier...it would seem to me the Carrier are at least in both plateau and subarctic; I would have added Category:Languages of the North American Plateau but I suspect it would be removed.....but is the plateau/coast/subarctic division from ethnography or from linguistics, and what are its justifications? i.e. for why not all of BC's plateau is in the Plateau group.Skookum1 (talk) 15:05, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * June Helm's Introduction to the Subarctic volume of the Handbook of North American Indians discusses this issue briefly. She says that the inclusion of Carrier and Chilcotin in the Subartic volume rather than the Plateau volume is somewhat arbitrary and motivated in part by linguistic considerations. Looking at lists of features of the two culture areas, it does seem that the affiliation of the Carrier is mixed. The use of pit houses, for example, is a plateau feature, but the absence of winter dances and first fruits ceremonies is more typical of subarctic cultures. I wouldn't take the mixture of people in the Ulkatcho band and the inclusion of one Chilcotin band in the Carrier-Chilcotin Tribal Council as evidence of much. Historically it looks like the Carrier and Chilcotin were generally hostile to each other and that these friendly relations are a fairly recent development. Bill (talk) 22:11, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Does "bizarre" have a specific linguistic meaning?
The section Scope phenomena refers to a specific usage as "bizarre."

"Bizarre" doesn't seem to be a useful word here, but I can't edit it because I don't know what the correct word or words would be.

Does the sample phrase not occur? Would it be ungrammatical? Is it something that some speakers say but other speakers claim is bad Carrier? Could "not" applying only to smoking be used in a sentence meaning "I am not smoking tobacco, I am chewing it."?

Thisisnotatest (talk) 02:25, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

References from student wikipedia project
Hello, please see my attached reference list for our class student editing project on Wikipedia.

Culture and Heritage. Yinka Dene Language Institute. (2011). Retrieved from http://www.carriersekani.ca/culture-heritage/yinka-dene-language-institute/

Dakelh (Carrier) Language Metadata. Endangered Languages Canada. Retrieved from http://www.endangeredlanguages.com/lang/1680/bibliography

Dakelh/Southern Carrier. First Voices Canada. Retrieved from https://www.firstvoices.com/explore/FV/sections/Dara/Athabascan/Dakelh/Dakelh_SouthernCarrier

Hudson, D. (2018, Oct. 5). Dakelh(Carrier) (10259378 78316338 M. Fillip. Ed.). Retrieved from https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/carrier

Thomason, Sarah Grey. Endangered Languages: an Introduction. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2015.

Proposed additions from student project: The etymology of the Carrier name

According to the Yinka Dene Language Institute (2006), the name Carrier comes from the Sekani language's translation for the Dakelh people, "Aghele." The English term came from the Sekani people because Alexander Mackenzie's Northwest Company first passed through Sekani land before entering Dakelh land and so Europeans learned about the Dakelh people from the Sekani people, who lived nearby in British Columbia.

Status

The UNESCO status of Carrier/Dakelh is "Severely Endangered", which means the language rates an average of 2/5 on UNESCO's 9 factors of language vitality, with 5 being safe and 0 being extinct. According to Dwyer's article on tools and techniques for endangered language assessment and revitalization, the three most critical factors out of the nine are factors numbered one - intergenerational transmission, three - proportion of speakers within the total population, and four - proportion of speakers within the total population. Carrier scores in the "severely endangered" category for all three of these most important factors, as well as most of the nine.

Cause of endangerment

There are two key causes of Carrier's endangered status today, although both are related to conquest.The first is the heavy influence of English, and given that in British Columbia it is the dominant language in education, business, government and media, this makes it much more attractive than learning and speaking Carrier frequently.

Second, forcible language assimilation attempts taken by the Canadian government, specifically residential schools beginning in 1919, have likely had an effect on attitudes towards speaking and learning Carrier that may have contributed to its current endangerment. Carrier speakers may associate speaking their own language with a negative emotional trigger after traumatic experiences in residential schools. Additionally, they may have wanted to protect their children from experiencing what they did and therefore did not teach them Carrier. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emeraldschreier (talk • contribs) 23:55, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Carrier
Returned to out loved ones 207.194.98.202 (talk) 23:50, 23 April 2024 (UTC)