Talk:Castile and León

Untitled
Castile-Leon the largest sub-national political division in Europe? Surely there are larger ones in Russia?
 * As of 2009-09-08 the claim read "largest in European Union" which would exclude Russia. Nevertheless, there are statoids in Sweden and Finland which are larger; therefore I have removed the claim. Illexsquid (talk) 21:42, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I am surprised that no one noticed that the table showing the autnomous communities is entering the table of Castile-Leon, pretty much destroying it. Since the first table doesn't have much connection to the topic, I have proceeded to remove it. Portcult 18:45, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Move article
Unless there is tradition in english for calling this region Castile-Leon, the article should be named Castile and Leon resembling the original Spanish official name. 80.58.9.237 22:29, 3 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * I've always heard it as Castile-Leon. - Montr&eacute;alais 08:16, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * Almost all the incoming links are to Castile-Leon, and only a handful to Castile and Leon, which seems to suggest the hyphenated form is common enough in the English language. On the other hand, a Google search is inconclusive. I think some more examples of English usage would be useful. sjorford &rarr;&bull;&larr; 17:35, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 18:32, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well the actual laws talk about Castilla y León (Castile and León in English). The official name is Castille and León

Galician and Lionese are not official in this Autonomy. This languages are almost dissapeared although several people spoke it in rural places of Leon province.

About gentilice "castellano y leonés" it's not an official gentilice. In fact, the "Estatuto" of Castille and León talks always about "the citiziens of Castilla y León" never about "castillians and leoneses"

And about the capitality of Valladolid, Castilla and León have not an official capital city although is Valladolid de facto.

Official languages
"Astur-leon&eacute;s, Castiella y Llión, and in Galician language Castela e León" -- Do these languages have official standing in the autonomous community? If not, we could go on for some time listing the name in all languages spoken by a sizeable minority in the autonomous community. - Montr&eacute;alais 08:16, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)

About Treviño
In Treviño, on Burgos province, Basque language is not spoken anyplace. falafel — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.2.247.116 (talk) 22:26, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Capital
An anonymous party wrote that Castile-Leon has no official capital. Is this true? Explanation please? - Montr&eacute;alais

It´s absolutely false, the official capital of Castile and Leon, since the creation of this autonomous community is Valladolid. I´ve not heard anything about another capital.

Absoluty false?? Have you read the statut of autonomy???? Please, read the statut of autonomy of Castile and Leon. Doesn't exist an official capital, only it's recognize a distribution of institutions. Valladolid: Government and Parliament; Burgos: Superior Court of Justice; León/Llión: Ombudsman

Hi!

I'm a citizens of Castile and León, also I'm studing Castile and León law. This region haven't got any capital. The Statut of Autonomy says that "a regional law will choose a capital for Castile and León", but for different issues this law was not write. Valladolid is the city where it is the building of Gobermenet and Parliament, Burgos the Superior Court of Justice, León the Ombudsman and in Zamora the Court of Auditors and Accounting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.243.236.10 (talk) 19:40, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

I forgot sign the last commentary --Lokifuris (talk) 19:42, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Llión en Llionés
I think the issue of displaying the alternate names of Castiella-Llión is in order, such is the leonese name of their own country whether or not has "official" recognition. Entries for spanish cities of Ceuta and Melilla has it, in both arabic and berber, "unoffical" languages but widely spoken. I think is encyclopedic refers to a local language name and is insulting and discriminative not to.

castilla y Leon has not an official capital, please change the information or at least say that pucela is only the unofficial captal in the practise —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.1.40.75 (talk) 12:50, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Demonym
Has anyone ever heard of a demonym in English? I don't think one really exists, beyond "Castilian" or "Leonese" (both inaccurate). Google gets just over 100 results for "Castilian-Leonese", which is the best for any possibility I could think of. The currently listed direct translation from Spanish is not correct. Ak13 20:27, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

It's impossible to be castilian-leonese. Castile is a territory and León another one. Persons are castilians or are leoneses but not castilian-leonese. In the last reform of the Statut of Autonomy, the gentilician castilian-leonese was eliminated. It doesn't recognize today.

Castile-Leon vs. Castile and Leon
I'm from Castile, and in Spanish official name is Castilla y León.

You can look Google: Castile-Leon: 64.200 entries Castile and Leon: 155.000 entries

I believe that he is suggesting that this page be moved to "Castile and Leon," in which case I second that motion. The direct translation of Castilla y Leon is Castile and Leon. Plus, if google returns more hits on the latter that is probably the better location. -Diabolic 23:27, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I think the title is not correct. The Spanish name is Castilla y León, and the translation is Castile and Lion; but it has no sense to write half of the title in Spanish and the other one in English. From my point of view, the right title should be Castilla y León —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.226.30.60 (talk) 16:48, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed, the half English, half Spanish name is nonsense. Jezhotwells (talk) 03:16, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

communication
"The main airports of the neighbouring regions of Asturias and Madrid (Barajas) are close as well, if not yet with a direct communication through public transportation."

What, exacly, qualifies as direct communication through public transport? I Took a taxi from Barajas to the Chamartín train station, and from there rode directly into Valladolid, the Capital of Castilla y León. Does there have to be a train station IN the airport? -Diabolic 23:25, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Large revert
I would just like to mention here that I reverted about 8 edits by 136.244.51.218 as copyright violations from here and various pages such as this one from [www.turismocastillayleon.com], so there is no confusion about whether my revert may have been accidental. &mdash;M e ts501 talk 02:02, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

You picky people
Hi just to say, that it seems you are really bloody picky bunch of people. Why you don't respect the local spelling and just call it Castilla y León, and their peoples Castellanos and Leoneses? i can't see the need to translate proper nouns to any language, apart from that of wanting to be above - Please, Respect. Cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.241.4.121 (talk • contribs)
 * So what do you call Chinese people in Spanish? yes, they certainly should not be called "chino" anymore....don't you agree??? Every language has a way to call things, countries and people from places. I think this issue has been dealt with so many times here in Wiki... so it has nothing to do with respect. **anon**
 * Because this is the English Wiki, and we require English names, etc., as primary (with native names following in brackets, when appropriate.)50.111.5.54 (talk) 23:08, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Incorrect link
The link named "regional High Court" directs to the Cortes Generales with which it has got nothing to do whatsoever. I don't know if the correct page exists; if not, I suggest the link be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.49.252.104 (talk) 20:10, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Statistics, citation, etc.
I've been bringing over masses of material from es-wiki, which I'm sure is a net improvement to the article, but the material is, in some cases, problematic. I've been doing my best to organize the material better than in the es-wiki (where, for example, one paragraph about demographics might be smack in the middle of the history section), to eliminate special pleading, to provide some context where I expect English-speaking readers will need it, etc.

However, there are at least two (related) problems I cannot readily solve:
 * 1) The material is woefully undercited throughout.
 * 2) The statistics are a hodgepodge (or, if you prefer, una olla podrida), with a maze of numbers from different dates, few of them clearly sourced, no way to know which numbers for parallel matters are comparable, etc.

In particular, the article effectively argues with itself as to whether the region's population is increasing or decreasing in the last decade or two. It is clear that the natural rate of increase is slightly negative due to an excess of deaths over births, but it is not clear whether immigration to the capitals and other major cities is outweighing emigration from the countryside and smaller towns, nor (if it is) whether it is outweighing it by enough to offset the negative natural rate of increase.

There is a lot of work someone could do here, but I hope that at least I am putting in the bones of a much better article than was here before.

I'm not done yet: as of this time there is still a lot more material to bring over. - Jmabel | Talk 20:11, 29 November 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, I'm now pretty much finished. I probably won't be watching the article closely; if someone wants to ask me anything about the material I added, please hit my user talk page. - 03:27, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Link to Peta Jhensen
Es una gran puta de cojones con grandes tetas

Gonzaka (talk) 20:31, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I think it's absurd to make such a comment. People could want to know about the football (soccer) player, no? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.251.103.18 (talk) 21:47, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Silver Way - Castile and Leon
The road called in English "Silver Way" is called "Ruta de la Plata" in Spanish not "Via de la Plata". I live about 1KM away.∼∼∼∼ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard.jamieson (talk • contribs) 19:47, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

A discussion with an unofficial coat of arms again
A user (a IP code) tried to change again the arms shown at article for an unofficial coat of arms designed by the Spanish Wikipedia group of heraldry. There was a disscusion about this months ago, this design is unofficial and not accepted in Engish Wikipedia as preferred or more acurate design like the Spanish Wikipedia, there users accepted the group designs as preferred and more correct. I told IP user war editions are banned and put this Dispute resolution in the message.

He told that it is an heraldic design. But there is a problem at the Castile and Leon goverment website only the logo has an official design, there are heralid version but no standarized, so only the logo design is officially correct:



The user asked for an heraldic design I put a version (obviously unofficial too) more used in English Wikipedia heraldic galleries and articles, the question was discussed as I told. If this user or other people won't agree again the objective solution would be the logotipe (the only emblem with a official design proved). --Heralder (talk) 23:22, 31 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I've done a careful reading of  and the Regional self-goverment Act L.O. 14/2007, Art. 6.  in both cases have a description of tinctures but no colors especifications (at the first link an official design is shown, a drawing and a photograph of a tapestry, the design is the same but colors change) so, according these sources only these files are totally correct (both descriptions and design)

--Heralder (talk) 01:12, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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article needs clean-up
I've corrected a few grammar errors, and tagged the history section as being largely unreferenced. I appreciate the editors of (probable) Hispanic origin that have contributed to the article, but there are several instances of unintelligible English here and there. I'm going to do a little more work here, but the SME's need to step in and give this one a thorough going-over. Thanks.50.111.5.54 (talk) 23:06, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of "Template:Largest cities of Castile and León"
Template:Largest cities of Castile and León has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 09:38, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Duero/Douro river
Hi all. Is there a reason why the river Duero is constantly called Douro throughout the article? If we're talking about a Spanish region surely we should employ the river's Spanish name as well, rather than the Portuguese version.

I took the liberty of editing the references that were not parts of links, for fear of messing those up.

Thanks for your attention. 2.155.23.138 (talk) 17:38, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Douro seems to be the usual name in English. --Jotamar (talk) 23:17, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * In addition of being the Portuguese-language name, Douro seems to be also the traditional English-language name for the river. However, use of the name Duero in a Spanish context (presumably when dealing with circumstances pertaining locations on the Spanish part of the river course) is not unheard of in recent English-language sources. If in order to apply certain flexibility, a new consensus needs to be reached (does it?), I suggest to start getting some feedback in the talk page of the article Duero. The first step is to bold the name Duero in the opening statement of the article Duero (I think I am going to do that myself).--Asqueladd (talk) 12:37, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:47, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Castile and León Product Exports (2020).svg

Basque in Treviño
So it may be that some Basque speakers have moved to Treviño from elsewhere but it doesn't actually say in the source that that is the source of all the Basque speakers in Teviño, reading that into it is OR/interpretation. In addition, while access to education locally seems limited in Treviño, bilingual Spanish/Basque education models are on offer (see and the local government has a Basque service  so the situation is clearly not the same as Basque speakers moving to Madrid. Akerbeltz (talk) 12:26, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It indeed does look like original research. But anyways, what's the point on all this? We are talking about your regular Spanish rural place of tiny (<2,000) and aging autochthonous population. Bluntly speaking, if it were not for exogenous reasons, there would be little to no kids to speak of (or be educated). Here there is a mention about the presence of a Basque-language school in the enclave owing its existence to couples from Vitoria moving (and commuting from) there . Here the very same Basque vice-minister of Language Policy (Mrs. Lourdes Auzmendi) acknowledges that the increasing number of Basque-speakers in Treviño is due "in large part" to migration. p.6 so the situation is clearly not the same as Basque speakers moving to Madrid Perhaps not, but what's exactly the point you are trying to make here.--Asqueladd (talk) 14:12, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It's not OR since the same document in the ref I provided (which I think is the same in the previous ref, only in Spanish instead of Basque) clearly says that there is a connection between Basques settling in the enclave and the rate of Basque speakers increasing (not just the number but also the rate), plus my wording doesn't say or imply that all the speakers were born in the Basque Country. --Jotamar (talk) 15:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The point is that given the complicated history of Treviño (historically part of the Basque province of Álava), it's not unreasonable to mention Basque speakers in the Languages section. But I got reverted and accused of falling prey to nationalist propaganda. I'm very well aware that in the south of Álava (including Treviño) there were no more native local Basque speakers left and that any speakers will either have moved there OR are locals who acquired Basque as adults or via the education system. But if they live there, there is no good reason not to mention them, especially if Bulgarian speakers warrant a mention... Akerbeltz (talk) 16:13, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Yet this is an article about Castile and León and not about the enclave of Treviño. And what's about Bulgarian? There are presumably more Bulgarian speakers in Castile and León than Basque speakers, with a national community in Castile and León over tenfold the population of Treviño . The source mentions those three (Bulgarian, Romanian, and Arabic) as examples of important immigrant languages . I get that that does not matter to you, as the case you seem to be making is that Basque is not an immigrant language in that tiny 2,000 inhabitants minuscule fraction of the region.--Asqueladd (talk) 16:50, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You're not explaining why my last edition is OR. --Jotamar (talk) 16:53, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Last time I looked, Treviño is formally part of Castile and León, so the population (and thus the languages) of Treviño are those of Castile and León. It's like an article about the UK mentioning Scottish Gaelic... It's OR because you cannot derive from the source that ALL the speakers of Basque in Treviño have recently moved there. Akerbeltz (talk) 17:22, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The idea that I am getting from Akerbeltz (and correct me if I am wrong but I consider that the user conveys a sizeable part of their rationale here through ellisions ("especially if Bulgarian speakers warrant a mention...") and unexplained statements ("the situation is clearly not the same as Basque speakers moving to Madrid") is that Basque should warrant a mention over the likes of Bulgarian in the language section not because of what sources state vis-à-vis the size of language communities in Castile and León, but because the history of that small fraction of the territory (Treviño) is complicated and because Basque is not necessarily an immigrant language there but an autochtonous one. The former is at best a special pleading and the latter is moot, with some sources suggesting that the increasing number of Basque speakers is connected to immigration. I don't have much of an settled opinion other than Treviño is not that important from a demographic standpoint in the context of the whole region covered by the article, so caution about any intrinsic notability of data pertaining that territory might apply. Basque has also been taught in the considerably bigger Miranda de Ebro, by the way.--Asqueladd (talk) 17:25, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

I was expecting further input in this discussion, and then I forgot about it. The text as it stands now is unacceptable, it gives the general reader a completely wrong idea. In addition, not even a proposal for an alternative wording has been offered. Even though the question about Basque language in Treviño is of a very low relevance for anyone who is not a Basque nationalist, I don't think deleting the text is the best option, since it will be reinstated sooner or later, the conquest of Treviño seems to be among the top priorities of Basque nationalism right now. Since the text for such minute information can't be very long, I'll write a note instead. --Jotamar (talk) 19:38, 14 June 2024 (UTC)