Talk:Casualties of the September 11 attacks/Archive 1

Organization
Well, it is possible to write a fairly decent article on the Survivors. These group of people are an important aspect to the tragedy - simply because they survived that day. KyuuA4 07:15, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Comment
Imagine if there was the full 55,000 people there i think the death toll would be at least 20,000... Americans were lucky, but when will i die!

Status of elevators?
What was the status of the elevators after the planes hit?

Were they inoperable? Did they have power? Were the shafts damaged?

I heared a report that at least 1 elevator fell to the bottom of the shaft and killed everyone on it after the initial impact. --216.52.163.1 18:21, 19 July 2006 (UTC) Luid

The elevators were inoperable after the attack and had no power. A few people escaped but most (about 100-150) died. As for the elevator that fell, I heard that report as well and I think it's true. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 18:50, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup
Article doesn't follow proper quality standards set by Wikipedia (italics, sources, links).


 * And you didn't follow the Wikipedia rule about signing your post. — Walloon 06:37, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Contradicting information
The article provides a list of the fourteen people who survived after WTC1 collapsed while they were still in the tower. Right below, the article mentions that Pasquale Buzzelli and Genelle Guzman McMillan also survived under those circumstances. None of them, however, are on the list of those 14 within-collapse survivors. Also, is Pasquale a man or a woman? Both this article and Pasquale Buzzelli refer to this person as being either gender.--Hús ö nd 22:36, 6 September 2006 (UTC)


 * There were a total of 20 survivors from the rubble. Survivors 1 and 2 crawled out from the underground shopping mall below the South Tower. Survivors 3 through 16 came from a portion of a North Tower stairwell that held together. Buzzelli and McMillan were not among those fourteen, although they also were in a North Tower stairway at the time of collapse. They were survivors 17 and 20. Survivors 18 and 19 were Port Authority police officers who were in an underground tunnel connecting the two towers.


 * And both this article and the article you link to refer to Buzzelli as "he". — Walloon 06:37, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Merge or Expand
This article does not provide enough detail to be considered an article, right now it is a stub. This needs to be either expanded or merged back into the main article, but there just isnt enough here to stand on its own, esp. not in its current format, which is very disorganized and is clearly incomplete. It dosent list everyone that survived and also contains some (possibly) inaccurate information.

Quote: "Only 14 people escaped from the impact zone (floors 78 to 84) of the South Tower after it was hit (including Stanley Praimnath), and 4 people from floors above it. They escaped down Stairway "A," the only stairwell that had been left intact (though somewhat obstructed with broken drywall, and filled with smoke in one area). No one was able to escape from above the point of impact in the North Tower after it was hit, as all stairways and elevator shafts on those floors were destroyed."

Werent they also plucking people off the roof using helicopters? I thought I heard that. Are these 14 those that got plucked or are the people who got plucked not included? If so, there is more than 14. This needs to be clarified at least or removed, and of course we need cites. --Shortfuse 01:06, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * This article isn't about a list of all the people who escaped the attacks (that would be impossible to provide/verify). Nobody was evacuated from the twin towers by helicopter. The 14 people referred in the article were the only ones at the impact zone of the south tower who managed to survive. -- Hús  ö  nd  01:04, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * People were rescued by helicopter from the roof of the North Tower after the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing. Helicopter rescue was not possible in the 2001 attacks because of the amount of smoke obscuring the rooftops. — Walloon 06:22, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, OK. Thanks for clearing that up. Do we have a source for this info? In the mean time, I am going to just that section. --Shortfuse 01:06, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Survivors 18 and 19 have had their stories recorded and made into the recent film "World Trade Center". It's really good - you should see it if you can! — 80.175.233.17 05:33, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Elevators
The article states this:


 * Perhaps the most amazing escape was that of six people trapped in an express elevator on the 50th floor of the North Tower. There was no elevator bank on that particular floor. After prying open the inner doors, they cut through three layers of drywall with a squeegee handle, then broke through a wall of tiles into a 50th-floor bathroom. All six escaped the tower five minutes before it collapsed. [citation needed]

There is a documented story of a very similair event occurring during the 1993 WTC bombing. It appeared on a History Channel special documentary in the summer of 2000. Using nothing but the weak light from personal beepers, they cut a hole in the drywall, and climbed out to safety. The ordeal took much longer, however, that the time they would have had in '01. Which leaves this story quite suspect. It is very possible this incident has been mistold and misrepresented as having happened in 2001 when it really happened in '93. Doctorindy 21:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It does look like a Hollywood-worth story. But there's plenty of sources confirming the squeegee story, therefore it complies to WP:V, true or not.-- Hús  ö  nd  21:39, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

William Rodriguez
Why is he not included? He startet running during the collapse and survived under a fire engine truck. His report is very famous. 68.210.173.148 17:40, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Up for deletion
Thought I'd say that this is up for deletion, in case someone missed it somehow. Titanium Dragon 00:28, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It survived the AFD and was cleaned up, though at this legnth, what's the point? Titanium Dragon 09:53, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, I want to encourage other wikipedians to consider the wisdom of some of the recent radical excisions. While researching Brian Clark and Stanley Praimnath, two survivors User:Titanium Dragon nominated for deletion, for essentially the same reason he or she nominated this article, I came across some other individuals.who I thought merited coverage, including.
 * Orio Palmer a NYFD Battalion Chief. Approximately a year after the attack tapes surfaced that showed that Palmer and a team of firefighters had made their way to the 78th floor, the bottom of the impact zone.  Previously the it was believed that firefighters had only made it as far as the 50th floor.  Palmer's team found wounded people on the 78th floor, and stopped ascending the Tower to attend to them.  It is believed they died on the 78th floor without realizing that a handful of survivors had descended from above the impact zone, and that hundreds of other victims, trapped above the impact zone, might have a chance of survival if that stairwell was still passable.  Geo Swan 13:16, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd say they had enough on their hands attending the wounded on the 78th floor. That alone would have taken quite a colossal effort. --Candlewicke (Talk) 00:24, 13 September 2008 (UTC)