Talk:Cat play and toys

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 5 September 2018 and 28 November 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Wnm428. Peer reviewers: Jackhutton1.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:56, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Pics
I guess we need some, of the toys. I dont have any at the mo... Tabby (talk) 03:41, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Not a bad idea, but I would recommend focusing on adding references first. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 04:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Adding pics now. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 20:30, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Encyclopedic
This article reads less encyclopedia and more Cat Fancy Magazine. 71.192.54.222 (talk) 22:56, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah--"mewed altering substance" WTF LOL ThVa (talk) 12:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree that this sounds like a anthropomorphic Cat Lover's article and doesn't read like a encyclopedic article at all. I've highlighted the anthropomorhpism in the following quote, "Predators like prey that is scared of them, reacts with fear, and tries to run and hide. Prey that moves towards the cat with confidence is very offputting, as in the wild this means the likelihood of an attack. So for maximum fun, cat toys should act in fear, trying to hide, jumping slightly when attacked, acting panicky, and trying to escape." I'm not saying that cat's don't feel these emotions/ideas; however, I do believe that evidence should be given that cats feel these emotions and ideas rather than postulating the emotional capacity of cats. This would lend objectivity to the article. Assuming that cats have feelings without evidence lends a "Cat Fancier's" tone to the article. Additionally there is no evidence or citation for any of this. StateOfTheUnion (talk) 11:00, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Also a discussion of the various prey that toys are "equated" to and the characteristics that equate the prey to the various toys may lend more credibility to the article. StateOfTheUnion (talk) 11:00, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

"Just like human play, the more realistic games are, the more enjoyable they are." I don't understand this postulate. There are many games that humans enjoy with little to no "realism" whatsoever. Card games come to mind as a game that does attempt to closely simulate a real world behavior. But there are many people that find card games highly enjoyable. Additionally, fantasy games such as "CandyLand" are enjoyable but not realistic. The recently released video game "Portal" is arguably enjoyable and somewhat realistic. But it is enjoyable and interesting specifically because of an unrealistic premise. In the game portal the "portals" are a non-realistic construct that is the underlying premise of the game that makes the game interesting. I strongly disagree that enjoyment of a game is predicated on the realism of the game. StateOfTheUnion (talk) 11:17, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Imported to en.wb and prodded. – Mike . lifeguard  &#124; @en.wb 15:07, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

These are arguably reasons to rephrase, add refs, or add additional viewpoints, but not really to delete an article. An article on cat play is a valid part of cat behaviour, and useful to lots of readers. Deprodded. Tabby (talk) 12:59, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Are you saying that improvement of gameplay by making it more realistic does not exist? I would have thought the effect common knowledge, and the fact that some games are not realistic does not change this any afaics. Some games need or benefit from realism, some dont. As examples, space invaders doesnt, doll games do. Tabby (talk) 13:22, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

"Predators like prey that is scared of them, reacts with fear, and tries to run and hide. Prey that moves towards the cat with confidence is very offputting, as in the wild this means the likelihood of an attack."

This is just the basic power play of predation explained, and is not specific to any one species, or even to any one type of predatory scenario. Are you saying predators disregard risk to themselves when approaching potential prey? Tabby (talk) 13:27, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

"Many owners enjoy using Nerf toys with their cats." This sentence is ridiculous - what's the process for removing it fairly? If some people agree with me here then I can go ahead and do it? Wormald (talk) 04:56, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Delete or improve
Quoted from Articles for deletion:

"Before nominating a recently created article, please consider that many good articles started their Wikilife in pretty bad shape. Unless it is obviously a hopeless case, consider sharing your reservations with the article creator, mentioning your concerns on the article's discussion page, and/or adding a "cleanup" template, instead of bringing the article to AfD."

Having read (and often edited) many start class articles, I would say this one is doing fine for a first draft. No doubt over time the additional viewpoints will be added, refs for claims (or opposing claims) will get added, and so on.

How cats behave in play, and how they relate to the toys around does seem a valid encyclopaedic topic to me, and a fairly important part of cat behaviour. The material will develop, wiki articles do over time. If all first drafts were deleted, much good material we have today would not be here. Tabby (talk) 08:36, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Tabby, I completely agree with you, but as I said in the first section, you do need to cite inline sources for the material otherwise the article will eventually be deleted as original research. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 08:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

This takes time, and I don't have it today, tomorrow or the next day. I or other users will get there over time if the article remains. Tabby (talk) 10:34, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a better way: Find sources that deal directly with the topic, add them to a references section, and add a "refimprove" tag. You can also ask the cat project to help you.  &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 12:07, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Tabby, I added a request at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cats. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 12:10, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I think the article can be improved. I stumbled across this somehow or another, and then started to see what I could find. For now, I'm just going to list these on the talk page. Hopefully later I can get around to incorporating these into the text, but someone else can surely jump in if they want!
 * SFSPCA article on how to play with your cat
 * ASPCA article on cat play aggression
 * ASPCA article on selecting safe toys
 * This last one is a more general article on cat behavior, but there are still some good points here
 * One of the problems will be finding acceptable sources, which is why I've chosen only SPCA related sources. Yng  varr  02:13, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll try and help out in an hour or so. Thanks for the great work so far. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 09:48, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Fish bowl
A bowl containing fish can capture a cat's attention, but there is no play opportunity.
 * I'm pretty sure that cats can turn this into a play opportunity, real quick. Should this be removed? &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 20:55, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Usually they just sit & watch IME, but my E is only a small sample. If you can tell us how they play with a fishtank, or point to something, I'd be interested to hear. Tabby (talk) 05:08, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * A fish bowl is slightly different than a fish tank, and in my experience, cats will "fish" with their paws. I've known cats who could even open tank lids and pull fish out with one paw while keeping the lid open with the other.  I'm fairly certain this is a play opportunity, but not one we would recommend.  &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 09:35, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

heh, I guess we need a rephrase then :) Tabby (talk) 07:00, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Refs
Searching for refs is proving excessively slow. Anyone got any clever ideas for how to get more useufl returns than just googling the key words?

Nice to see people chipping in and improving the article. Tabby (talk) 05:06, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:NOT#MANUAL
I've Been bold and removed half this article - it's not a manual on how to play with your cat any more than Cat is a manual on how to take care of one. This is an encyclopedia article about the nature of cat play - can we expand on the interesting and relevant sections we left? I'd love to see more about why cats play, what excites them, what role it plays in their development, et cetera, from a psychological and biological point of view. Reviewing cat toys just doesn't cut it. Kuronue | Talk 16:50, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Why would a list of popular toys be out of place in an article on cat play and toys? Tabby (talk) 23:52, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion
What might work here is to look at natural cat behavior and environment and then group toys and how they imitate that. (BTW your fishbowl imitates cats waiting in front of a mouse-hole or near a body of water till prey comes within convenient reach. Some people entertain their indoor cat by cutting a hole into their baseboard and drywall.)  Some wild cats fish and so do some domesticated cats. Many domesticated cats imitate the movement of flinging a fish out of the water with toys. A list of toys is problematic because they are products s.o. makes money off. Just listing product names won't fly. But describing the type of product and what features it has that attract cats and then listing a couple of examples of home-made and manufactured toys in each category might go. Remember also that products may not be universally available, types of products are. "Mouse manufactured from rabbit fur with leather tail" everyone can go look for. "Katz Supermouse" will not be available everywhere and if the manufacturer discontinues of changes it you're in trouble. You can look at what certain materials have in common with cats' natural environment. OR those that don't have an easily recognizable equivalent. BTW Cats also play hide and seek, not just "predator games". In nature they use cover like trees and shrubs to get close to their prey as well as to hide from bigger predators that might want to put them on the menu. I've not had any cat yet that didn't enjoy a good chase.

The behavior based approach has the advantage that you can then link to all sorts of other wikipedia pages. References for behavior and materials are also easier to generate. Well linked pages are less likely to get tossed out. I'd be glad to lend a hand, but right now I'm still finishing up another project. Leave a message on my talk page if there's something specific I could help with. I've had domesticated, feral and wild cats. (The real thing.) I've seen quite a bit of behavior that was similar and equally stuff that totally baffled me. --Lisa4edit (talk) 05:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Cat quotes
"Cats, unlike Humans, have the uncanny ability to listen when we have problems, or at least, they appear so. If only Humans had such simple inteligence. -R. Lynn, 12 years old" I moved this from the main page. Viriditas (talk) 10:53, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Merge Scratching post
I think it would improve the "cat toys" aspect of the article if the scratching post article were merged here. I don't think the scratching post article is necessary (wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a dictionary), and I think it would be best if that page were to become to become a redirect to this article. Kpstewart (talk) 07:06, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see why not. Sounds like a good idea to me. Viriditas (talk) 09:19, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

A scratching post isn't just a toy. It's a tool for cats to sharpen their claws and is extremely useful in preventing cats from shredding furniture. I think half a case could be made for merging the scratching post page into the cat training page or something, and that's a bad idea for the same reasons that this one is... 151.151.21.100 (talk) 10:40, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The thing is, you can make that same argument about all of the "toys" in this article. My cat's favorite toy is a bowl of fresh grass that I grow indoors.  Perhaps the merge is ok, but we need to change the name of the article? Viriditas (talk) 12:01, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree that the title of this article should be changed. I think "Cat toys" should suffice as the fact that cat toys exist presupposes that cats play. Kpstewart (talk) 07:43, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Add a sub-section for a scratching post. 72.222.154.92 (talk) 20:57, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

This article could be merged with the Cat behavior article under a hunting section, with play as a sub section. The cat scratching behavior is not for play, but for scent marking, stretching and removing of the claw sheath. I guess it could also go into the behavior article, but i think the scratching post article has too much detail for a Cat behavior.--Dodo bird (talk) 08:02, 13 May 2009 (UTC)--Dodo bird (talk) 08:02, 13 May 2009 (UTC) At the moment, I'm happy to just let this article be.-- The LegendarySky Attacker 06:34, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Catnip
How does the writer know whether catnip produces a euphoric high? Cat neurochemistry is very similar to a human's, and so the drug would likely work on humans as well as cats. On the catnip page, it says that the catnip terpinoids mimic cat sex pheromones, which produce some kind of sexual response, rather than a high. This should be corrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.169.134.251 (talk) 13:53, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

This article doesn't mention that cat play is also often based around fighting with other cats. Cats will wrestle with each other, human hands, and inanimate objects (e.g., they may grip a pillow and rapidly kick it). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.176.125 (talk) 18:24, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Cat play isn't just about chasing/predation
This article doesn't mention that a main type of cat play is based around fighting. Kittens and adult cats will wrestle with, bite, and kick each other. They'll also wrestle with human hands or inanimate objects (e.g., grabbing a pillow and rapidly kicking it). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.176.125 (talk) 18:27, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * So, find some reliable sources and start editing. :-) And actually, our section on kittens does cover this anyway.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:10, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Illustration in patent
At a United States patent listing there is a nice illustration of how to play with a cat using a laser. At Copyright on the content of patents and in the context of patent prosecution there is a statement that this illustration should be in the public domain. It might be nice to use it here but I do not know the right template to use so I have not uploaded it.  Blue Rasberry  (talk)  18:49, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

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Merge cat exercise wheel here?
Cat exercise wheel is a gadget of dubious WP:NOTABILITY but maybe it could be merged here? --
 * Hmm, this article is about play relating to aggression and fake hunting, not just play in general. I dunno if it would fit here. βӪᑸᙥӴ • Talk • Contribs 21:25, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose: the current page Cat exercise wheel is referenced, and seems OK where it currently is. I agree with βӪᑸᙥӴ that it might not be a great fit here. Klbrain (talk) 16:11, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Closed with no merge, given the uncontested objection and no support. Klbrain (talk) 16:28, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Unsourced safety claims
Various alarmist advice was added to this article pertaining to string, feather, etc., without any sources and in contravention of WP:NOT. Some material about safety of particular object types might be addable back into this article, but not in the form of advice, and not without reliable sources. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:09, 5 December 2023 (UTC)