Talk:Cathal Brugha Street

Where does Cathal Brugha Street become Sean Macdermott Street?
It is not clear to me whether the section from Marlborough St to Cumberland St is the east end of Cathal Brugha Street or the west end of Sean Macdermott Street.
 * Evidence for Cathal Brugha Street
 * Street sign says "Cathal Brugha Street" though the Irish is misspelled so deeper incompetence is a possibility.
 * Gresham House is described as Cathal Brugha Street on various property ads
 * Evidence for Sean Macdermott Street
 * The 1907 OS map show Gloucester Street Upper and Lower and the 2015 OS Map shows them renamed as Sean MacDermott Street Upper and Lower. Unfortuantely the relevant section has no name in the 2015 map, though it was clearly Gloucester Street in 1907.
 * Luas info leaflet has "Traffic on Marlborough Street between Cathal Brugha Street / Sean MacDermott Street and Cathedral Street" which implies that the change from Cathal Brugha Street to Sean MacDermott Street occurs when it crosses Marlborough Street.

So there are two possibilities:
 * 1) for some odd reason, part of Gloucester/Macdermott St was renamed Cathal Brugha St. Maybe they felt the new section on its own was too short and so not prestigious enough?
 * 2) some eejit put up a Cathal Brugha Street nameplate when Gresham House was built (in the 1990s by the looks of it) but it's actually Sean Macdermott Street

jnestorius(talk) 17:48, 25 June 2015 (UTC)


 * According to this 2010 boards.ie post:
 * The bit of old Upper Sean McDermott Street from Cumberland street on one side and Champions Avenue on the other towards O'Connell Street was renamed Cathal Brugha Street so that people would buy the privately built apartments on the Cumberland Street side (Gresham House).
 * The bit from Cumberland Street and Champions Avenue to Gardiner Street (the bit with DCC apartments) is still Upper Sean McDermott Street.
 * They could not have been more obvious about it.
 * jnestorius(talk) 22:06, 25 June 2015 (UTC)


 * This (PDF) 2007 Accessibility audit of "Cahill [sic] Brugha Street D1 S78" covers only the O'Connell St--Marlborough St portion. And This )PDF) of "Sean McDermott St. Upper D1 S78" covers as far west as Marlborough St. jnestorius(talk) 11:47, 27 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Not sure if this will be of any real help, but my Bartholomew sheet map from 1997 (based on OS data) firmly limits the street to the section between O'Connell St. and Marlborough St. . (Excruciatingly tiny script to fit the name into the street,, BTW :)) I'm not sure how old the data in the map actually is though; I suspect it's an older map looking at the styling, with later additions pasted in, I'll dig around some more if I get the chance,  FlowerpotmaN &middot;( t ) 14:29, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I've checked a few different maps in bookshops and most but not all call it Cathal Brugha Street. The definite timeline is as follows:
 * 1924 and after: new street is built
 * By 1927: new street is unofficially called Cathal Brugha Street
 * August 1932: new street is officially named Cathal Brugha Street
 * Late 1932: Gloucester Street is renamed Sean Macdermott Street
 * By 1993: Gresham House developers refer to westernmost Sean Macdermott Street section as [part of] Cathal Brugha Street
 * By 2013: Others refer to section as [part of] Cathal Brugha Street
 * The question is whether, at some point before or after step #5, the name of the section was officially changed.
 * It may be that it was officially changed, and that subsequent maps etc that continue to call it "Sean Macdermott Street" are simply out-of-date.
 * OTOH it may be that it has never been formally renamed, that the nameplate on the side of Gresham House is an unofficial one erected by the developers that mimics the format of the official ones erected by the council. (Irish councils are not as diligent in erecting nameplates at every corner as the ought to be; they may lazily have declined to replace the incorrect unofficial plate with an official one which would read "Sean Macdermott Street Upper".)
 * If it was officially changed, there would be a record in the council minutes, but if it was long ago those minutes will not be online. There might be a record in some newspaper; if it is not a national newspaper it might not be archived online.
 * If it was never officially changed, that would be harder to prove, unless a reliable source has explicitly said something like "this section is officially Sean Macdermott Street but commonly called Cathal Brugha Street".
 * I think the regulations for a change of name would be these from 1956; although section 196 of the Local Government Act 2001 envisages new rules, it has not yet been commenced. However, the 1956 rules strictly speaking are for changing the name of an entire street, whereas this is changing the name of part of a street (or, equivalently, adjusting the boundary between two streets). jnestorius(talk) 09:38, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Irish Times archive to the rescue! Case closed. jnestorius(talk) 00:12, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

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