Talk:Cathedral of Kars

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page not moved. Per the below discussion, there consensus does not exist to move the article at this time. Tyrol5  [Talk]  23:13, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Cathedral of Kars → Kumbet Mosque – I think this article should be names as Kumbet Mosque, as it is currently used as a mosque. You can see some pictures inside of it here: http://turkishtravelblog.com/kumbet-mosque-church-of-12-apostles/ and Britannica's page on it http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/324773/Kumbet-Camii. Just like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayasofya_Mosque --Relisted. Cúchullain t/ c 16:29, 8 February 2013 (UTC) Sbasturk (talk) 13:13, 12 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Relisting comment - It would be instructive to see how English-language sources refer to this building.--Cúchullain t/ c 16:29, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment - reliable English language sources generally refer to this as Kümbet Mosque, former Cathedral of Kars or similar. But we can't do that since, it seems at least, WP:AT forbids following reliable English sources when they do this. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:15, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose It was built as a cathedral, and with buildings we generally focus on their initial and at building use.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:26, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose: I'm not sure what John Pack Lambert says is true.  In the absence of a specific naming convention, we surely title buildings by whatever name they are better known.  In most cases, that will be their original use, but there must be many instances where a later use is the more common name.  I'm not convinced one way or another on this particular one.  An Advanced Google search in English for Kars and Cathedral excluding Wikipedia over the last year gives 2,980 hits (page through to the last item and you get 436 unduplicated hits), but I am struggling to find a single reliable source among them (I didn't look too hard, but there's an awful lot of dross there).  A similar search for Kumbet and Mosque produces 184 hits (Kümbet and Mosque produces marginally fewer), which turns out to be 161 unduplicated hits.  The sources appear to be slightly more reliable, but heavily biased by Turkish sources (which might be expected to favour a Turkish mosque over an Armenian cathedral).  As the onus is on the proposer of the move to make the case and convince others, I have to oppose the move at this stage, but am open to argument.  Skinsmoke (talk) 11:48, 9 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your comments. By the way this 'church's name is not Cathedral of Kars but Holy Apostles Church. Your search result with Kars Cathedral gives tons of results which has nothing to do with that topic. You can maybe try using ". If we really focus on the building use than I'd suggest to rename it to its original name although it has been using as a mosque in the most of its life time.Sbasturk (talk) 01:46, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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