Talk:Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception (Moscow)/GA2

GA Review
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Reviewer: Binksternet (talk · contribs) 09:18, 29 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Looks like this article can be claimed for WikiCup credit by GreatOrangePumpkin. Other contributors are not WikiCup entrants.
 * The reference to rm-news.eu/ is not working; it times out. I suggest replacing it with an archived version, perhaps this one from April 2009.
 * Added archived site
 * I'm sorry, I was wrong in thinking that any of the rm-news.eu archives would have this article, the one quoting Tadeusz Kondrusiewicz. It appears after some research that the rm-news people change their website's main page text whenever they wish, without assigning a URL to any story. I think now that the cite cannot be used. However, the basic information is not false; I found an article in Spanish that was published at the time. Here's the Spanish version and here's the clunky, automated English translation made by Google: "The Bishop of Moscow denounces the situation of Catholics: Police forcibly evicted a church", 29 March 1995, José Grau, AcePrensa, reprinted from Moscow Pravda. Maybe the best way forward is to get rid of the quote (because we cannot cite the source) but to summarize the event for the reader. Binksternet (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Removed
 * No dab link problems.
 * Why isn't this article given its full name at the dab page Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception?
 * "Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception" is a short form for "Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception of the Holy Virgin Mary". It is a direct translation from Russian, and sometimes they add redundancy, like here "Holy Virgin Mary", as there is actually only one "Immaculate Conception". Many reliable sources name this church "Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception of the Holy Virgin Mary", so I don't think a move is reasonable (however, if someone thinks otherwise, he is welcomed to do so)
 * I am not asking for this article to be moved. This is what I meant. Done! Binksternet (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The header "The organ and bells" should be "Organ and bells", something without the article the.
 * Removed "the"
 * More review to come. Binksternet (talk) 09:40, 29 January 2012 (UTC)


 * The map coordinates are wrong; they point to a spot in the middle of the river road Kremlevskaya naberezhnaya, near the Kremlin. Google maps tells me the coordinates are 55.768366 N, 37.57134 E, not 55.749935 N, 37.616372 E; a driving distance of 5.6 km.
 * Coordinates are a new arena for me. I neither see 55.749935 N nor 37.616372 E on this article.
 * I corrected the coordinates. Binksternet (talk) 01:45, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The article says that the cathedral is "in the centre of Moscow" but it is not. The cathedral is outside of the central Garden Ring, the old walled city, but inside of the Boulevard Ring. Later, the article says the site is "away from the city centre". This discrepancy must be addressed.
 * I think it was meant that it is located in the Central Administrative Okrug.
 * I don't think the pipe link Central Administrative Okrug is enough to help people know what version of "centre" is being described. It should be made plain in the text that the church is not in the old centre of Moscow near the Kremlin, for instance. It is in the next area out from the centre. Binksternet (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Made it clearer
 * "Neo-Gothic" gets a lower-case 'n' when it is not at the beginning of a sentence.
 * Done
 * One more to go. Binksternet (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Done
 * Get rid of "did": "Despite his plan did not following the council's latter condition..."
 * Removed
 * This sentence either needs one more comma or one less: "The Moscow newspaper Russkoje Slowo, wrote..."
 * Added comma
 * "Sources vary..." "Sources that argue..." This wording sounds like a talk page rather than an article. How about "Writings vary" or "Observers that argue"?
 * Reworded
 * Overlinking: Do we really need three separate wikilinks in the following phrase? Only one of them is the focus: "a part of Marxist-Leninist communist ideology". There is no need for the second wikilink of relief.
 * Removed "communist"; delinked "relief"
 * Were annexed: "more of the gardens was annexed"
 * Changed
 * Hmmm. I think I may be wrong. I messed up on the subject: "more ... was annexed", not "gardens were annexed". Binksternet (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Add "of": "took possession the former church"
 * Added
 * Question: was the church the site of the first Mass said in Moscow following glasnost? If so, it is not clear from this phrase: "the first Mass in the sacred precincts in 60 years was celebrated"
 * No, just this cathedral's first mass since 60 years. I also don't understand what is meant with "sacred precincts". Copyeditors, please answer this :)
 * The article says that Father Andrzey Stetskevich is the current vicar general of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Moscow. However, at that point in the story the reader expects information from September 1998, not right now.
 * I will look at the official site
 * I am not sure if he is still vicar; there is a low amount of information, even on the official site of the Moscow Archdiocese. However, I found information about Andrzey Stetskevich from 2007, and they name him vicar. Also, if he would pass away, that would be surely covered anywhere. ♫GoP♫ T C N  11:59, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * What does this mean? "and was not rendered externally"
 * It means it's not covered in "render." as in render. Giacomo Returned 20:37, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You are the third who doesn't understand "render" in this context :)


 * "Principle tower" should be "principal tower".
 * I think that has been fixed
 * Still there. Binksternet (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't see it :P
 * How bright is "3 metres (9.8 ft) bright"? Heh heh... I think the intention is 3 metres in diameter, or 3 metres tall, but the meaning is not clear.
 * I replaced "bright" with "tall"
 * The convert template needs to have the adjective parameter turned on: adj=on Binksternet (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Added
 * Do you really have to ascend to the organ loft in order to descend to the crypt? Very odd, if true.
 * Will look
 * Yes, this is true.-- ♫GoP♫ T C N 12:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * An: "there is a oratory"
 * Changed
 * The primarily British English spelling style is interrupted here and there by American (or Oxfordian) spellings such as "symbolize".
 * Done
 * Serious problem with redundancy in the telling of the story of the Kuhn organ! Two successive paragraphs are basically the same thing told in different words. Combine these—rewrite them as one paragraph—and get rid of the redundancy.
 * I see. Reworded.-- ♫GoP♫ T C N 12:09, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Can the Kuhn organ image and the church bells image be swapped left for right? The bells image should be moved down one paragraph to be near the relevant text.
 * Moved
 * The pipe organ image is good now. The bells image was one that I thought should go down, not up. Down to the paragraph about bells. That way, sightless readers will put the bells in the proper context rather than hearing about them in the middle of the pipe organ text. Binksternet (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, done
 * The archived article from www.rm-news.eu needs to have a title in the cite template.
 * Added "Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception of the Holy Virgin Mary", although I don't know the correct title, as I have no access.
 * See above. I think we need to remove this cite. Binksternet (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Ditto
 * There is no cite supporting the notion that the church is the largest in Russia.
 * There are plenty of sources, I added a random reliable source.-- ♫GoP♫ T C N 23:00, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

That's my review. I will place the GAR on hold pending improvements. Binksternet (talk) 20:17, 29 January 2012 (UTC)


 * A new problem was introduced. This phrase, "and was used after war", should be written, "and was used after the war". Binksternet (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Added "the"-- ♫GoP♫ T C N 11:14, 30 January 2012 (UTC)


 * ✅ I jumped in and performed some of the suggested changes, especially to provide a smooth reading flow to the Kuhn pipe organ section. GA listed! Congratulations to all who worked on the article. Binksternet (talk) 16:13, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * <-- Thanks everyone who helped! =)-- ♫GoP♫ T <sup style="color:red;">C <sub style="color:red;">N 16:18, 30 January 2012 (UTC)