Talk:Cattle in religion and mythology/Archive 1

Killing Cows Law
Um, the statement that killing cows in India is banned by law is, if anything, only partly true. The BJP tried to institute a no-slaughter law and were rebuffed the first time the BJP had power; they didn't try again. Muslims eat beef, and there are a LOT of Muslims in India. A2Kafir 03:10, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It's also not the same for all species of Bos. Cow slaughter is banned in all Indian states except two. There are fewer restrictions on buffalo slaughter. India exports about 280.000 tons of buffalo meat every year... Prater 00:01, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Does the "Recent Situation" section really belong on this page? Although the information is useful, the article is talking about the expression "sacred cow". The origin of the expression belongs here, but the current situation on slaughtering cattle in India seems to be a digression. Shanemcd 11:05, 16 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Use of Term in the West
I request from those with expertise and knowledge the following additions to this article:

- A brief tracking of the term "Sacred Cow" as an expression in the West. In my inexpert experience, it is used as a satiric description of anything that people are foolishly trying to preserve. (This implies a harsh judgment or ignorance of the related Hindu religious practices and beliefs.)

- The views of modern Hindus on this use of the term. (Does it cause offense, as I suspect it might?)

It may be a challenge, but I expect this content would be purely factual, with no judgments stated or implied.

Thanks, 199.233.178.253 19:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)DK Johnson in Seattle, Washington, USA

Hello there...
Hello there. I have no academic expertise in this but I've studied Indian philosophy and visited S.Asia several times. I want to say clearly that the whole character of the article totally misses the point about these creatures; it's written from the frankly moronically discursive, explanatory perspective of Western Apollonian rationale. They are sacred not because Krishna was a cowherd or whatever simplistic notion but because of their inherent qualities, noted indeed also by the Egyptians and Mesopotamians. It's hard to convey this, you have instead to make your own observations, especially in the cows' setting in India: they're extraordinarily imperturbable, peaceful, sattvic, and the bulls fabulously virile, sexual and masculine. They embody the qualities of the divine as do no other creatures... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.93.21.130 (talk) 16:52, 30 September 2006

Sacred
The term 'sacred' is a christian word, so cows cant be sacred to dhramic religions like hinduism. should this be changed to other words? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.143.135.11 (talk) 00:34, 26 November 2006


 * Not actually the case. See below. DJ Clayworth (talk) 18:32, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Cows Sacred in Nepal
Cows are taken as sacred in Nepal. It is still taken as an illegal offense to kill cows and almost all of the Nepalese do not eat beef, even when they are abroad in foreign countries. Vedic religion or Hinduism has a deep root in Nepal in much ancient forms. A much greater studies can be conducted regarding the Hinduism practiced in Nepal, in addition to 'Kirat' presence in ancient times of Nepal. I believe Nepal has somewhat an 'aggressive' form of Hinduism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JBBasnet (talk • contribs) 09:15, 8 December 2006

it's not sacred in balienese hinduism
that's what they said on the indonesia board.--D-Boy 03:09, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
 * D Boy, can i read the specific article relating to this? thanksDomsta333 (talk) 02:40, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Kali the demon
No way can that demon in the pictures be Kali, for two reasons:
 * 1. Kali is not a demon, but a violent, "dark" goddess associated with Shakti; so she would also hold the cow as sacred.
 * 2. Kali is female, and as far as i can see, the demon looks male.

Could someone please check into this? --WoodElf 08:16, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

oops, its the demon Kali, not the goddess. My bad. --WoodElf 08:19, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Cows Are Not Sacred
To quote QI - "There's no sacred cows in India. The term "sacred" is a Christian one; doesn't really apply to India. Even if it did, it wouldn't apply to cows. There are no cow deities, cow icons, cow statues, and no temples to cows. Cows are one of the few animals that are not the object of worship in India." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.142.42.229 (talk) 20:45, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I have also heard Hindus object to this expression. I think the article should be titled "Cows in Hinduism". Steve Dufour (talk) 14:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I would normally agree, but this article does also (briefly) discuss respect for cows in Ancient Egypt. -kotra (talk) 18:32, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Cows are also a part of some other ancient religions. Maybe there should be a page on "Cows in religion" Steve Dufour (talk) 04:07, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * In that case, I would recommend renaming this article Cows in religion, and maybe splitting off the Hinduism sections into a Cows in Hinduism sub-article. -kotra (talk) 18:21, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

"Sacred" does not mean what the first poster in this section thinks it means. It's also not a specifically Christian word. It does not mean god-like, venerated or worshipped. It does mean "set apart for holy use" or "related to religion". So in English there can be "sacred ground" (land set apart for religious purposes) "sacred music" (music for religious purposes) etc. Neither the ground nor the music is the subject or worship, nor are there "music deities" or "temples to churchyards". So if there are cows which are given special respect or treatment for religious reasons then yes, there are sacred cows in India. DJ Clayworth (talk) 18:30, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Whether or not "sacred" is an accurate word to describe cows in India, "Sacred cow" is a poor title for a Wikipedia article. I still recommend a name change to Cows in religion, or maybe Cattle in religion since this article talks about bulls as well as cows (which technically means female cattle only). -kotra (talk) 20:24, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * You may be right. Sacred cow is a well-known enough phrase in English that people will be searching for it, which is probably why this article was started. However a redirect will probably be sufficient to address that. There is a "metaphorical meaning" section which will have to be deal with in some way of the article is renamed. DJ Clayworth (talk) 20:40, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The "metaphorical meaning" section could be a basis for a "Sacred cow" article that's just about the expression, like As the crow flies. This would be a short article that would link to Cows in religion or Cattle in religion. -kotra (talk) 22:59, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me. DJ Clayworth (talk) 02:07, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Krishnaism wikiproject
I assess articles for the Krishnaism wikiproject. A few weeks ago I added the project tag to this talk page. For some undocumented reason, it was removed. As the subject of the Sacred cow is highly relevant to the Krishnaism wikiproject, I would appreciate it if a reasonable statement would be posted by any editor who removes this project tag in the future. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 01:05, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Historical significance...
I marked several citation needed tags in this section. Almost the whole thing, really.

If someone has some facts to actually cite in here, I'll leave it in. Otherwise, I'm going to pull that section in a few days. Phrases like "as per history" are NOT citations and make the entire section smell like something that comes out of the south end of a northbound sacred cow's husband.

Additionally, there's that bit about "modern science has acknowledged" -- unless there's a citable individual I don't know about who actually goes by the personal name of "Dr. Modern Science" this is also reeking of that same cow-related matter, and not JUST because it's talking about burning it as an antiseptic.17.224.21.32 (talk) 23:29, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Rename
A number of users suggested a move of this article to Cattle in religion. The consensus so far seems to be in favour. I'll leave this entry a few days to give someone an opportunity to object. If moved then a stub will be left behind mentioning the metaphorical use of "sacred cow" and with a link to the new article. DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:45, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, but I would wait until the sections not referring to Hinduism are greatly expanded. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 17:48, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That could be never (or at least a very long time), and the old title "Sacred cow" is problematic now. I support this move, and thanks for performing it, DJ Clayworth. -kotra (talk) 16:56, 8 July 2008 (UTC)