Talk:Cava (disambiguation)

Requested move
no consensus to move. --RegentsPark (sticks and stones) 18:48, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Cava (disambiguation) → Cava — While, as a wine editor, the Spanish sparkling wine would be my most common usage for the phrase "Cava" I can concede that it has many other usages as evident by this lengthy disambiguation page. Currently Cava is redirecting to the Sparkling wine article which features a link back to this disambiguation page. As the topic of Cava is discussed extensively in the Sparkling wine and Catalan wine article, the need for ever having a duplicate stub content on Cava replacing the redirect is slim (however, a new editor did recently do an inappropriate cut and paste move on the redirect). That said, I think it would be cleaner and more logical flow to have this disambig page moved to Cava with a link to Cava (wine) redirecting to the appropriate Sparkling wine article. AgneCheese/Wine 14:24, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Support Rather too bad. I would have hoped there would be an article at Cava (wine) as there is at Champagne (wine). If an article is written in the future I believe Cava should be redirect there but in the mean time, this is the best option.--Labattblueboy (talk) 15:45, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Support No primary meaning for "cava", obviously. —innotata (Talk • Contribs) 17:28, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose. The wine is the primary meaning even without an article.  The only two topics unqualifiedly called "cava" are an uninhabited island and a community of 55 people.  BTW, cava the subject of an article until that article's deletion by User:Agne27, the proposer of this move.  Without a cava article, there is serious duplication of material in Catalan wine: Cava and Sparkling wine: Cava. These two sections might should be truncated and the cava article restored (cf. Champagne (wine)).  —   AjaxSmack   02:26, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose. I'm inclined to agree that the wine is the primary. It is certainly not the Orkney island and I doubt most English speakers are aware of the Spanish municipality. Ben   Mac  Dui  09:28, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is much debate that the wine is the primary topic but there is no article about the primary topic, so you work with what you've got.--Labattblueboy (talk) 20:20, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Lack of an article doesn' preclude a name being a primary topic. Such an example is given at WP:PRIMARYTOPIC: "In some cases, the primary topic may be a redirect to a different article. For example, the primary topic for "Danzig" is the former German city of that name, but that city's article is titled Gdańsk. Therefore Danzig redirects to Gdańsk, and the latter page contains a link to Danzig (disambiguation), where other topics for "Danzig" are listed."  —   AjaxSmack   20:19, 9 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Some wine notes for you to consider - Champagne (wine) and Cava are essentially the same thing. They are both sparkling wines. However, Champagne came first with Cava (along with Spumante, Cremant, Sekt, Pezsgő, Cap Classique, etc) coming after in a form of regional imitation. Champagne is unique, and merits it own article, because essentially it is the standard bearer by which all other sparkling wines are compared. From an encyclopedic point of view and most particularly a wine point of view, it doesn't make sense to have a litany of "stubs/starts" on all these "regional champagnes" apart from the main context article of sparkling wine. So, as a member of WP:WINE, I did an extensive revamping of the sparkling wine article and redirected these regional variations to the article since they are all essentially the same thing. Within in the confine of the main article, the reader has more context. (Some of the duplication of the Cava material came from the fact that I happened to have written the Catalan wine article first) There is no reason to remove the information about Cava from the Sparkling wine article (though the section in the Catalan wine region article could be trimmed) and there really isn't much more additional content that could be added so using Cava or Cava (wine) for anything else but a redirect is only an unnecessary duplication. As a redirect, the difference between Cava or Cava (wine) is negligible and considering this lengthy DAB page, there is no ill effects to the reader or editor by having the DAB here with maybe the wine link being moved up to the top. While it could be argued that the wine is the primary topic, honestly, the vast majority of wine consumers (and likely Wikipedia readers) mistakenly call the wine "champagne" as the WP:COMMONNAME :P AgneCheese/Wine 14:53, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. I have little interest and less time to get involved in a debate about the merits of sparkling wine articles, but this last comment is, in my experience, well wide of the mark. The drouthy folk of my part of the world (which is not one known for its wine growing - it is currently minus 10 degrees C outside) know what "cava" is and are well aware of the difference between this and "real" champagne. Of course I can't provide a citation for this any more than you can for your assertion, but the volume of ghits suggests a general level of public awareness.  Ben   Mac  Dui  17:55, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Heh, well if you truly want I'll see if I can dig up something online but people using "champagne" for every sparkling wine is daily life in the wine industry when you are dealing with consumers. (Personally I blame Korbel but that is just me :P) In fact most wine sales training manuals instruct new clerks not to correct customers by telling them that Champagne only comes from Champagne (wine region) when they come in asking for some "Spanish champagne" or "Italian champagne", etc because it is considered poor customer service and will make the customer uncomfortable. I have to say from experience it is PAINFULLY hard not to want correct customers when you first start working in the wine world but after you hear 8 out 10 customers who are looking for a Cava ask for a "champagne from Spain", you quickly learn to just role with the flow. Customers are always right, even when they are wrong. :) AgneCheese/Wine 19:55, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I have no doubt that you have forgotten more about wine than I have ever known. However I am tempted to speculate that there may be a European/American divide here. I am several thousand years old and I have yet to hear the phrase "Italian champagne". Slàinte, Ben   Mac  Dui  20:04, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose. The wine does seem to be the primary topic. Even if there is no separate article on the primary topic, that does not trump that someone typing in the primary topic should get there. Ucucha 11:24, 12 January 2010 (UTC)