Talk:Celebrity Big Brother (British series 5) racism controversy

Merger proposal
The two articles have duplicate content. It may be better to move this page to the CBB page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.9.194.26 (talk) 12:36, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge - It doesen't need it's own page, it could easily be redirected.--Hiltonhampton 20:50, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't Merge - This was a huge story that was shown in many countries. It is worthy of its own page 12bigbrother12 23:33, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't Merge - This is by far the bigest story in Big Brother UK history and therefore it is huge so it need to have it own page In23065 (talk) 18:19, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't Merge - Putting all this content on the main Celebrity Big Brother 07 page would clutter it a ridiculous amount. There's too much to say F eee lixTalk!! 17:38, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge, per WP:NOT. Will (talk) 18:34, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * MergeMessy Thinking (talk) 02:20, 20 July 2008 (UTC) But use the exact same title and subtitles.

Photos are awful for Jade Goody's image
The two photos, side by side, with Jade Gooody shouting and Shilpa Shetty crying are a bit loaded. Where they taken at approximately the same time? Is there any connection between whatever it is that Jade Goody is shouting and Shilpa Shetty's tears? If not then different pictures might be in order.--Timtak (talk) 00:53, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


 * What's loaded about it? This is the typical image that was broadcast on most TV stations and printed in many newspapers (some international) at the time this issue occurred. If nothing else, the image is of historical interest I believe. Ekantik talk 03:05, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That would depend on the answers to my questions.--Timtak (talk) 09:38, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree entirely with the image being inappropriate. Wikipedia is known for providing complete, unbiased information - and this image only serves to contradict that. The images were taken at separate times and shouldn't be used as an example of each individual when placed side-by-side. We should strive to be unbiased in this corner of the internet, rather than hosting images distributed by the media to make this particular person, whether they are bad or not, look bad. ¬ 86.148.199.98 (talk) 00:08, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * As I said, this is the typical image that was employed in broadcast media at the time this was happening. It is of historical interest if nothing else. There is nothing "biased" about it, it is simply a random shot of both characters during their time on the show. Regarding "looking bad", that is also sourced reliably since the reliable sources painted Goody as "bad" and Shetty as "good" or the "victim". The title of this section ("photos are bad for jade goody's image") is itself a statement of bias. Wikipedia is not in the business of protecting people's image either. Ekantik talk 01:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia certainly must be unbiased. However I would venture to guess that glamor shots of each would be highly inappropriate in this context, as would be any concern for Goody's "image." Scenes from the show seem correct to me, and Shetty crying is appropriate since I'm pretty sure the tears were in reaction to Goody's comments. As for Goody, while her photo reflects the ugliness of her racism, I think that the unsigned commenter above makes a good point. A despicable figure doesn't necessarily require a distorted photo.  We should probably get a photo of Goody during one of her numerous racist rants. sæ (talk) 04:06, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Sae, that is actually a screenshot from one of the racist arguments. I expect it can be verified from the brown dress she seems to be wearing, and the correlations with numberless YouTube clips of the event out there. Ekantik talk 01:20, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


 * If that's the case, I agree with you Ekantik. And I think Timtak would, too, considering Timtak's desire for some correlation between the image and the controversy. sæ (talk) 21:18, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I have just come to this page for the first time and i can tell you from a neutral stand point (myself being a british-indian in London) that the photos side by side immediately depict Jade Goody in an almost melodramatically bad light. I accept that Goody et al made abhorrent racial slurs towards Shilpa Shetty but i think we can all agree that the main cause of the fractional conflict was a clash of personalities... i.e two undisputed queens of the tabloids being thrust together.  The bullying and arguments that followed took on a racist dimension as a result of the uncultured ignorance of an extremely dim example of a white working class Londoner. Further more the comments on the page that allude to Mr Tweedy's comments towards Miss Shetty are examples of insults that are nothing to do with race (save the insubstantial - 'bleeped-out expletive variously reported as cunt or paki'), I have called people of many diverse races a wanker.. for example.  With regards to the historical importance of the images, i do not remember these particular images being any more published or exposed than the myriad of other pictures that arose at the time.  Honestly, this issue shouldn't be any more racially charged than it already is, some disgusting things were broadcast to the nation and as such this article deserves to as unbiased as possible.  Anyone can see that the article as it stands is less than partisan at first glance.... Djt98 (talk) 18:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I'll take a month of silence as agreement with what I've said. The photographs are gone and if anyone thinks the article would do better with another two please - remember - wikipedia is not a pantomime or even a reaffirmer of the dominant, majority view - it is PARTISAN - photographs that loaded should never have been allowed near such an emotive and charged article. Even if they were taken at the time (of one of many) arguments, between the two Etantik - who incidentally appears to be wikipedia's unofficial shilpa shetty biographer. I dislike Goody but I equally dislike impartial editors on wikipedia - and theres only one of those i can address. Djt98 (talk) 18:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Jackson racism
I'm fairly sure there was something similar with him, but it's not on this page. What was it? 81.132.127.224 (talk) 21:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * White trash isnt a racist term degorative maybe but not racist Jade Goody wasnt even white she was 1/4 black from her dad's side —Preceding unsigned comment added by Miss-simworld (talk • contribs) 10:34, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Celebrity Big Brother 2007 (UK) logo.png
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Goody's death
Surely this should be included in the "after the event" section? 12bigbrother12 23:40, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * A quick search led me to this article on Shetty commenting the subject. http://news.uk.msn.com/entertainment/article.aspx?cp-documentid=15353626 12bigbrother12 23:42, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

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Shetty's remark about Jade Goody
She actually said "Your claim to fame is this."

Goody took that to mean that she was being belittled because she was only famous through reality TV.

In interviews after the show, Shetty remaked that her meaning was that Goody was famous for her behavior (ignorant and rude). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.166.47.235 (talk) 11:18, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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"All of whom are white British"
Inaccurate and a generalisation—Jade is not fully white. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 01:23, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of Big Brother housemates (British series 1) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 23:47, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 26 September 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 19:19, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Celebrity Big Brother (British series 5) racism controversy → Big Brother racism controversy – The current title is overly specific - if there was a separate Celebrity Big Brother racism controversy I could understand the disambiguation, but to my knowledge there isn't. Either Celebrity Big Brother racism controversy or Big Brother racism controversy should suffice for Wikipedia. QueenofBithynia (talk) 18:53, 26 September 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 00:48, 4 October 2022 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose this needs to relate to the specific incident In ictu oculi (talk) 16:50, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. First off, while this may be the only one with a page, "Big Brother racism controversy" is INCREDIBLY ambiguous and could refer to one of many incidents in one of many seasons in one of many countries. Secondly, that's not even the full title of the spin-off series — the spin-off is specifically called "Celebrity Big Brother". Paintspot Infez (talk) 22:10, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Is Celebrity Big Brother racism controversy too vague then? Should it not redirect here? QueenofBithynia (talk) 13:19, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Title
Apologies, didn't see the previous move discussion and assumed my page move would be uncontroversial.

However, the title should be "Celebrity Big Brother racism controversy" for the following reasons:

Popcornfud (talk) 17:15, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:PRIMARYTOPIC — this is likely to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term; it "has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term". What other major Celebrity Big Brother racism incidents have there been?
 * WP:QUALIFIER: "If the article is about the primary topic to which the ambiguous name refers, then that name can be its title without modification, provided it follows all other applicable policies."
 * WP:CONCISE — "Celebrity Big Brother racism controversy" is the most concise title to fully disambugate the subject


 * "Celebrity Big Brother racism controversy" can refer to any international version of the franchsie and any season from those versions. That title is just too ambiguous, as can be seen by the fact that the British version is not in fact at the primary topic and is instead at Celebrity Big Brother (British series 5). Additionaly, this isn't the only season that has racism controversy - see Celebrity Big Brother (British series 4) (and possibly others). Gonnym (talk) 18:52, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * "Celebrity Big Brother racism controversy" can refer to any international version of the franchsie and any season from those versions.
 * For this to be a compelling reason the other incidents (such as the series 4 incident) would need to be as notable as the incident covered by this article — ie we need to see how this article is not the WP:PRIMARY topic.
 * As the series 4 incident is merely a subsection in another article it doesn't immediately seem to be much of a contender, and it could instead be linked to in a hatnote to tend to the small number of people who were likely to be looking for something else.
 * Are there other incidents that can rival this one for coverage? It so far appears to be clearly the primary topic to me. Popcornfud (talk) 18:57, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Any further thoughts? Popcornfud (talk) 00:15, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Knock knock. I really think we have the wrong page title here. Popcornfud (talk) 17:38, 15 May 2023 (UTC)