Talk:Celeste (video game)

What are the names of Celeste's Developer and Publisher?
I am saying this because there have been many name changes and conflicting information on the internet.

On the official Celeste website, there is the logo of "Maddy Makes Games" on the bottom. It is included on Maddy Thorson's website with "Maddy Makes Games" on top as well. It is also included on EXOK Games' website, with its publisher being "Matt Makes Games, Inc." It's press kit last modified in 2018, its console releases, and its Epic Games Store release both say that the developer and publisher is "Matt Makes Games". On Steam, its developer is "Extremely OK Games, Ltd." with its publisher being "Matt Makes Games Inc." Finally, on itch.io, it is under the storefront "Maddy Makes Games".

I'm curious about which one would it be currently, as the current names on Wikipedia seem to be based on the press release. - John4Numbers (talk) 23:54, 3 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Games often change "owners" as companies get gobbled up. On Wikipedia, we use what can be established (in reliable, secondary sources) as the developer/publisher at time of release, rather than the current owner. In this case it's complicated or potentially overruled by our Manual of Style guideline on gender identity, given the developer's gender transition and how it's reflected in the company's name. czar  21:46, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * It's something I honestly don't know how to handle. I think I'm leaning towards "Matt Makes Games" as the best choice, as all contemporary sources call the developer/publisher that. I would be fine switching it to "Extremely OK Games", as it's the developer listed in the game itself. I'm not sure about "Maddy Makes Games", though. I could only find two reliable sources list them as the game's developer, and the term "Maddy Makes Games" has never really been a thing. It was loosely applied in 2020 after Thorson changed her name, over a full year after EXOK succeeded the company, and, to my knowledge, has never been any sort of legal entity. As for MOS:DEADNAME, it seems like something that needs more discussion. I'm open to an RfC on the topic, as this is definitely something that warrants a wide discussion in my opinion, though I personally don't have strong feelings either way. Do we default to WP:COMMONNAME, in which case "Maddy Makes Games" has never been the common name, do we go with the name at time of publication, per other video games that have had their developer/publisher undergo a name change/change in ownership, though does that conflict with guidelines about using a transgender person's deadname? Can policies about people apply to companies, even if the company is named after them? Do we go with EXOK because that's the more common name that doesn't risk using a person's deadname? I've stuck to the "use the one from contemporary sources" route, though I've deliberately pretty much not used the name of the developer/publisher at all—it's only in the lead and top of the infobox, everywhere else uses things like "the developers" to avoid this whole mess. I have no clue where to even start tackling this problem as a whole, though, and I'm certainly open to an RfC to help, because GENDERID-related stuff on Wikipedia has been contentious and IMO this isn't a problem to be solved on the talk page of a relatively small indie game. DecafPotato (talk) 00:35, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I do not believe that there is any potential for confusion in changing the primary publisher to either Maddy Makes Games or EXOK Games. It's important to be mindful of deadnaming, and I don't think people are so attached to the original developer name that they would be confused if it was changed. - Whadup, it&#39;s ya girl, Dusa (talk) 03:13, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Like I said above, I’d prefer EXOK in that case. Maddy Makes Games first appeared more than a year after EXOK, and retrospective sources use EXOK mostly, while contemporary ones use the old name of the studio—a former name which needs to be included at least in a footnote because it was notable for Celeste specifically. DecafPotato (talk) 06:35, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I suggest that we add EXOC as the developer and create the footnote regarding Matt Makes Games. Publishing is a bit of a gray area, but I believe we should use the original name under which the game was published (Matt) and then add the footnote saying that the publisher's name was changed.  The Night Watch     (talk)   23:05, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Revisiting this
It's been some time since the above discussion, and I believe there's been a shift in what the company's name is being listed as. For example, its entry on EXOK's website, Epic Games Store entry, and Steam entry have now all been updated to "Maddy Makes Games". I don't know what would be best in this situation, especially as it's complicated by EXOK being listed in some cases. Perhaps it's time to revisit this question? Tol (talk &#124; contribs) @ 20:25, 8 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't know what the guideline for developer names is, but looking at Juno (film), it lists Elliot Page and has a footnote stating that the film was released before his transition and was credited as Ellen Page. We could do something similar here, list the developer as "Maddy Makes Games" but specify that when it was first released it was listed as "Matt Makes Games" until software updates changed the name. ThomasO1989 (talk) 20:55, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
 * From my understanding we use developer/publisher name from when the game was first published. For example Grand Theft Auto III was developed by DMA Design, Not Grand Theft Auto III was developed by Rockstar North. Or another BioShock is a 2007 first-person shooter game developed by 2K Boston, Not BioShock is a 2007 first-person shooter game developed by Irrational Games).  Spy-cicle💥   Talk? 02:25, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the best option is to change it to "Maddy" with footnote, like on the TowerFall or Maddy Thorson Page, and add EXOK to the developer list, since while EXOK seems to have largely superseded Maddy Makes Games, they're still registered as separate entities (Steam, Canada's Business Registry ). I see Spy-cicle's point, but I feel like in this case, where the name change is tied to the change in name of a person, it makes more sense to change it. WelpThatWorked (talk) 14:57, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Another user has already changed the company name to "Maddy"; I am now adding a footnote to explain, as I believe this ("Maddy" with footnote) to be most in line with the rough consensus here (and with similar arrangements on TowerFall and Maddy Thorson § Maddy Makes Games). Tol  (talk &#124; contribs) @ 15:15, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Do Celeste mods deserve a section?
With the recent release of major fan project Strawberry Jam, a number of sources (like these) have covered the project and the Celeste modding community. However, I'm not certain on my own whether the modding scene deserves its own section, expanded information in an existing section, or no changes at all. Thoughts? 70.130.73.56 (talk) 01:55, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It should be covered in the section.  czar  04:44, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Obsolescence of Ahorn
The page briefly mentions Ahorn as the tool used for making Celeste maps, however that fell out of use quite a while ago, and was replaced by Lönn. It's kind of a minor detail but I feel that it would be wrong to mention Ahorn without mentioning Lönn. I have very little experience with wikipedia editing so I don't have confidence in my ability to add it in myself, however if anyone would like to make that small correction it would do wonders for my OCD. Jaspersmg (talk) 01:39, 15 September 2023 (UTC)


 * @Jaspersmg Heya! I've updated the page to add mention of Lönn, but if there is anything else you want to be included just let me know. Traditionallimb (talk) 14:49, 7 January 2024 (UTC)