Talk:Cemented carbide

Widia
Who uses the term "widia" for this material? I can't find it in my dictionaries. Unless somebody has a convincing cite for this usage I think it should be removed as a synonym. jam (talk) 05:27, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * This source calls it widia: http://books.google.com/books?id=2P-kFI5dFzMC&pg=PA645&dq=widia+carbide&as_brr=3&ei=wRQcSrrFKI_CzATl8sGMCw&client=firefox-a#PPA645,M1. It's definitely a proprietary name, but I think because it was one of the first products on the market the name stuck. Wizard191 (talk) 16:14, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * From the search results it seems (not confirmed) that it was Krupp's brand name starting at the beginning of commercial carbide tool use in the 1920s, and it came from wie Diamant = "like diamond". German sound would be VEE-dee-uh. Likely has functioned as a genericized trademark in at least some countries. — ¾-10 03:43, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Update: Someone added the German etymology to the lede today, which prompted me to break it out into a history section (it was a bit digressive for the lede) and to supply a cited reference. — ¾-10 00:46, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Stellite
No mention of stellite? Isn't it a hardmetal? PeterEasthope (talk) 22:41, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


 * See article "Stellite". It is an alloy. Cemented carbides comprise little particles of the carbide bound together with a binding metal. I don't think there is any sintering or cementing involved in Stellite, i.e., I think it is completely homogeneous. But IANAM (I am not a metallurgist), so maybe that article can lead you to more answers. Cheers, — ¾-10 01:09, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

More on the history
The Spanish Wikipedia's article (es:carburo de wolframio) has a lot more of the history. (If you're in Google Chrome browser, it will let you click "Translate" at top and it will machine-translate the article for you.) I would paste it here and clean up the machine translation, but there are no refs given at all there (at es:carburo de wolframio), so I'm hesitant to add the info here "as if I knew it to be true" when I don't ... but then again, you know ... why not? Just put tags on it, eh? Tal vez o quizás? I'll think about it, and maybe google some of the text and see if it leads back to any books to cite on Google Books. It very well might ... will do ASAP. — ¾-10 00:35, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

VHM
There's a recent(?) trend for using a VHM abbreviation when describing/marketing carbide tools. It is hard, however, to find out where this abbreviation comes from. Very Hard Metal is a strong candidate. Can anyone confirm this?
 * This abbreviation might come from the German "voll Hartmetall", which means as much as solid carbide. It's used for tools made entirely from cemented carbide, as opposed to carbide tipped. --Ulrich67 (talk) 17:39, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Unusual capitalization
The article has unusual capitalization throughout, such as "Cemented Carbide" and "Tungsten Carbide", that doesn't seem to be the standard in other articles. Perhaps someone knowledgeable can review this. 146.115.68.200 (talk) 21:44, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Original History - Osram and Widia. I come to this article very late but having stumbled on the present article I thought it useful to include an extract from my Book 'Copper wire and Electrical Conductors - The Shaping of a Technology' (Harwood Academic 1992 p84). Following Moissans' experiments in attempting to synthesize diamonds in the 1890's and inadvertently producing tungsten carbide, the material was initially considered worthless until the 1920's when it evolved into a practical material. Osram were producing incandescent lamp filaments out of Tungsten and Osmium (OSmium/WolfRAM)and needed better drawing dies for what was a very intractable material. The early Tungstem Carbide draw dies were, as noted above, called 'Hartmetal'. K Schroeter showed that adding cobalt to cementing tungsten carbide lowered the sintering temperature. This 'Hartmetal was refined further and superseded by a tougher form in 1926 now marketed as 'Widia'. The wire manufacturers were quick to exploit Widia - Thomas Bolton's near Leek in Staffordshire adopted carbide dies as early as 1930. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.174.204 (talk) 20:39, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Original History - Osram and Widia. I come to this article very late but having stumbled on the present article I thought it useful to include an extract from my Book 'Copper wire and Electrical Conductors - The Shaping of a Technology' (Harwood Academic 1992 p84). Following Moissans' experiments in attempting to synthesize diamonds in the 1890's and inadvertently producing tungsten carbide, the material was initially considered worthless until the 1920's when it evolved into a practical material. Osram were producing incandescent lamp filaments out of Tungsten and Osmium (OSmium/WolfRAM)and needed better drawing dies for what was a very intractable material. The early Tungstem Carbide draw dies were, as noted above, called 'Hartmetal'. K Schroeter showed that adding cobalt to cementing tungsten carbide lowered the sintering temperature. This 'Hartmetal was refined further and superseded by a tougher form in 1926 now marketed as 'Widia'. The wire manufacturers were quick to exploit Widia - Thomas Bolton's near Leek in Staffordshire adopted carbide dies as early as 1930. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.174.204 (talk) 20:41, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Inserts for mining tools
In the article it is mentioned: "Only man-made diamond can replace the Cemented Carbide buttons when conditions are ideal, but as rock drilling is a tough job the Cemented Carbide button bits remain the most used type throughout the world." This sentence has not a clear meaning. From what i understand as a mechanical engineer, it means that the only suitable replacement for the carbide buttons is artificially made diamonds, but as a mechanical engineer (with some experience in the mining industry) it is partially wrong for a couple of reasons i will discuss below. Also the second part of the sentence tries to come to a point but fails miserably. As for the buttons:

1) There are more suitable materials for this application, obviously for example other carbides and/or ceramics.

2) At the moment artificial diamonds can be made but not at the dimensional scale of the buttons actually being used. Theoretically it is possible but would cost a lot. Also diamonds will oxidize at a much lower temperature which will make them a worse candidate for this application. Also there is CVD (Chemical vapor deposition) where you could potentially coat something with diamond but my previous point makes it clear that it would be unsuitable for this application due to the high temperatures at the cutting tip due to friction.

3) Cost

I'm not familiar with wikipedia, but this article definitely needs more research. Please be free to correct this part as you see fit because at the moment it is really bad.


 * Wikipedia needs sources, thank you for not editing yet. I presume you could find one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by I5-X600K (talk • contribs) 04:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Pobedit
Pobedit seems to be the Russian name / version of cemented tungsten carbide. So not a different material but just an other (trade-?)name. So I don't think we need an extra section, but might better include it in the historic section and maybe keep some of the parts on how to make it. --Ulrich67 (talk) 17:14, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Tungsten or Cobalt?
The article on Tungsten carbide says that the binder metal is Tungsten. This article repeatedly says that the binder metal in Tungsten Carbide is Cobalt.

The name would seem to suggest Tungsten, but names can be misleading, so I have not edited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.8.33.71 (talk) 12:54, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Health and Safety
should probably have the same section on health as the wiki on Tungsten Carbide, which indicates cobalt as a risk factor, especially inhaling dust particles long term — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.20.246.219 (talk) 06:15, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Diamond like Carbon
In the section on insert coatings, there is a sentence stating that DLC (diamond-like carbon) coatings don't suffer from dissolving into ferrous metals. This doesn't seem very intuitive, since the coating is still made of carbon. Can anyone find a source for this, or maybe I am reading this wrong.

From the article on diamond-like carbon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond-like_carbon)


 * Despite the favorable tribological properties of DLC it must be used with caution on ferrous metals. If it is used at higher temperatures, the substrate or counter face may carburize, which could lead to loss of function due to a change in hardness. The final, end use temperature of a coated component should be kept below the temperature at which a PVC DLC coating is applied.

I5-X600K (talk) 21:53, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

In the sentence: "By controlling various parameters, including grain size, cobalt content, dotation (e.g., alloy carbides) and carbon content, a carbide manufacturer can tailor the carbide's performance to specific applications." What is "dotation"? There are tens of websites that ALL have this same copied/plagiarized sentence, but none explain what dotation is! Don't just write and article copying somebody else's work without helping to explain what they are talking about, especially if the source article also doesn't even know what they are talking about. Copies of copies of copies.

2600:1700:4CA1:3C80:A565:9CF1:21AA:43EE (talk) 15:18, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Dotation
In the sentence: "By controlling various parameters, including grain size, cobalt content, dotation (e.g., alloy carbides) and carbon content, a carbide manufacturer can tailor the carbide's performance to specific applications." What is "dotation"? There are tens of websites that ALL have this same copied/plagiarized sentence, but none explain what dotation is! Don't just write and article copying somebody else's work without helping to explain what they are talking about, especially if the source article also doesn't even know what they are talking about. Copies of copies of copies.

2600:1700:4CA1:3C80:A565:9CF1:21AA:43EE (talk) 15:20, 11 October 2022 (UTC)