Talk:Center Square/Hudson–Park Historic District/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: David Fuchs (talk · contribs) 01:23, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

inprogress Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 01:23, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Hey, sorry for the delay. Overall, the article is a solid start. A few notes:
 * Just some quick responses ... I am not sure that this week I will be able to address all of these, but I will try to make a start. Daniel Case (talk) 19:09, 23 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Prose and organization :
 * A possible hole in the topic's coverage is regarding recent events. The lead ends with a 1993 book, and the history section basically ends there outside a one-line mention. Doesn't feel like going on 30 years of history is adequately covered.
 * Believe me I did look before I updated the article. Since it's a relatively popular and affluent neighborhood in Albany, it's rather stable, and there doesn't appear to have been any significant change or development in that time. Nothing the Times-Union has reported on, anyway. Daniel Case (talk) 19:09, 23 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Per WP:LEADCITE, I don't really see the point of the sources in the article lead.
 * Those are because when I nominated it for DYK some reviewers believe (understandably IMO) that if we're going to link it from the Main Page on the basis of one fact in the article that said fact should be cited the first time it appears. I have no problem modifying that; I just can't do it right now. Daniel Case (talk) 19:09, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ Actually, I did, as it turned out. Daniel Case (talk) 19:25, 23 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Given that the article itself mentions none of the contributing properties are registered, I feel like the exhaustive list of roughly 50(!) individual buildings is undue given the coverage. The more notable or historical ones are probably better off mentioned in the prose describing the area.
 * One of those decisions that probably worked better a decade ago when the majority of viewers were on desktops. I am actually thinking that today, a video would be the better way to handle this; at WT:NRHP we have at times discussed how we could better use videos in our articles, and the feeling was those about large historic districts, especially those with lots of resources like this one (while the honor for largest in area in Albany goes to Washington Park, much of that is taken up by the park itself, and I think Center Square has the most buildings). In the meantime you are right; this could be done more efficiently. Daniel Case (talk) 00:38, 29 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Media :
 * Images appear appropriately sourced and licensed.
 * On a wide variety of screen sizes, the images in the back half of the article run into collision issues interrupting the flow of content. Per MOS:IMAGES I would reduce the number here to the best examples and cut the minor ones (also, if this section is slimmed down, there is even less space for these.)
 * See above. Daniel Case (talk) 00:38, 29 November 2021 (UTC)


 * References :
 * Cassidy, 2011 is apparently a self-published book through AuthorHouse; to qualify as a WP:SPS, is there any evidence the author is an expert in the area quoted?
 * Along those lines, I think instead of using the neighborhood association here for definitions of boundaries of the neighborhood, we should use the actual NRHP definition, since that's as "official" as we're going to get and the article functionally uses that as-is. (I also don't think the association refs adequately cite the information, anyhow.)
 * Well, "Center Square" and "Hudson–Park" are actually two separate neighborhoods, or at least they think so; they decided to list them as one district, much as was done with Chinatown and Little Italy in Manhattan, since they're adjacent. I put that in for how those differences are delineated within the district, which of course is subjective, but I think the viewpoints of the neighborhood associations are of note. Daniel Case (talk) 19:09, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ Turns out the city government has a page giving Jay Street as the boundary. Daniel Case (talk) 06:23, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I have also added a citation to the application, which says the same thing. Daniel Case (talk) 07:37, 29 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Spot-checked statements attributed to current refs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 10, 12, 13, 15–17, and 20.
 * I see you're using the NRISref template for citation 1, but it doesn't actually link to the proper page, versus something like
 * Yeah, that should be changed. It's sort of inherited from the stub version of the article. That template worked at the time but doesn't anymore. Daniel Case (talk) 19:10, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Actually that was easy ... Daniel Case (talk) 06:18, 29 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Lark Street has since become regionally noted for its arts community. It hosts several annual festivals, including Art on Lark, Winter WonderLark, its Champagne on the Park annual fundraiser and LarkFEST, the state's largest single-day open-air street festival. not adequately cited to 12.
 * Added more sources, and tamped down some of the puffery that comes from the existing sources. Daniel Case (talk) 05:13, 30 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Just to the west of the city at that time rose sharp bluffs penetrated by the ravines carved by the small local tributaries of the Hudson. To better connect the growing city's neighborhoods, they were filled in over time. not adequately cited to 2.
 * Found and added another source. Daniel Case (talk) 05:38, 30 November 2021 (UTC)


 * In 1957 residents of the six blocks between State, South Swan, Jay and Lark formed the Center Square Neighborhood Association (CSNA), Albany's oldest such organization not adequately cited to 10
 * Again, found another source. Daniel Case (talk) 06:35, 30 November 2021 (UTC)


 * I don't think the use of images and copy is appropriate to cite the gay pride walk's exact route. Smacks a bit too much of original research.
 * Found better sources. Daniel Case (talk) 04:07, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

-- Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 15:27, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

OK, I've addressed everything but the last section. Once I get done with that, I will ask you if there's anything more I could address. Daniel Case (talk) 22:15, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

OK, I'm done with that now. I think I have made the article about 15% shorter. Daniel Case (talk) 21:15, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll be taking another look over things this week. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 17:03, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Looks better, and I think my concerns have been substantially addressed. passing. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 21:13, 15 December 2021 (UTC)