Talk:Center for Initiatives in Jewish Education

Why this Wiki topic
This article, while still at stub-level was described as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG#Center_for_Initiatives_in_Jewish_Education:_Why_speedy_Drafted? partially promotional / borderline notable].

The topic is certainly not borderline notable, even if the writing may seem "partially promotional" and if that's how it's been perceived, then WP:PRESERVE would seem to suggest that it needs improvement.

That's what the Wiki editing process is about. Was/is it (still) (?below?) stub level? Pi314m (talk) 09:54, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Contested Speedy?
(tps of article creator) Not sure this is completely G11. Was tempted to remove Speedy to allow for community to judge at AfD but perhaps best left to return to draft for a bit. Note sure which way I'd !vote at an AfD if I chose to !vote at it.Djm-leighpark (talk) 11:31, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Contested deletion
This page is not unambiguously promotional, because... (your reason here) it was written as a history of an organization that was funded for an educational purpose. The organization's most recent top executive did in fact make a cringe-worthy statement, and this did give me second thoughts about enhancing the article. I do not want the history of the organization lost, so I will attempt (mostly this will have to wait for next week) to at least trim some wording that is perhaps better presented below rather than on top of the article. -- Pi314m (talk) 18:17, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Not Spam/not advocacy, propaganda or recruitment: NPOV
The article, as edited, presents both the day school and the supplementary education approaches. It arcs from the 1990 report that incorporated a wide NPOV range of participants, through hiring its first director (Hoffmann, who by definition had to meet NPOV, since ((thru 2010)) he dealt with the full range of the Jewish Agency and worldwide groups such as CRIF in France, which doesn't even use the name Jewish but rather Israelite, a term that USA writers no longer seem to use), and includes information about the two major organizations who compete in this area. Pi314m (talk) 08:23, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

some specific points

 * 1A. Statements of purpose from advocacy organizations are coded, designed so the general public will not think twice about what  seems a generally worthy cause, but those who know the background will understand their actual positions. That's one of the problems of using primary sources. You and I know what is implied,  but we need some 3rd party to say so. " to ... reach out to "the segment of the Jewish population which is finding it increasingly difficult to define its future in terms of Jewish values and behavior."   is not necessarily in opposition to "from life back to the Torah".  In practice, it's another matter.
 * 1B. Are you quite sure L'Chaim San Diego is Chabad? Look at its cover or p.24/25 for June/July 2019.
 * 1C. Birthright Israel is not of similar nature. It's political, not religious or educational. It's aimed at getting more young people to align themselves not with Judaism generally, but Israel in particular. Summer camp programs, which have been around for about a century, have varied dramatically in their orientation.
 * 1D I removed what I consider an outrageous paragraph of name-dropping
 * 1E The statistics you use for the  jewish education are 10 years out of date.  But the way you are using them, you're writing an article advocating  f Jewish education, not writingan article about an organization advocating Jewish education.   DGG ( talk ) 01:00, 31 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Not a complete response, but (at least) a start:
 * several decades ago a weekly called LeChaim, on the parsha, with sayings from the Lubavitcher rebbe was distributed in Orthodox shuls. It was not a glossy, and was printed on stiff paper and folded to a size that could fit in a man's suit jacket's inside pocket. It was replaced by another title that still is issued, also printed in Crown Heights. My mistake was to assume that the use of the title LeChaim would not be taken by someone else, but I have nothing more to go on than the wording of the San Diego magazine's "about" page which has no claim whatsoever about Chabad. (I removed the Chabad ref from the article) Pi314m (talk) 21:22, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

The use of a 2019 Avi Chai Foundation ad about CIJE but "reported" by JTA is not meant so much for supporting the "10 years out of date" (phrasing above) data but rather to note that these programs are still ongoing. I'm aware that the ending words of "This article was produced by JTA’s native content team" means ads designed to blend into and appeal to readers, described as native to what they are reading. Pi314m (talk) 06:27, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Not surprisingly, International Technology and Engineering Educators Association indexed CIJE for "the 82nd Annual ITEEA Conference" (March 11, 2020). https://www.iteea.org/16770.aspx Pi314m (talk) 03:21, 1 April 2020 (UTC)