Talk:Central Germany (cultural area)

Use of "Mitteldeutschland"
This page seems to me to be a good start to this subject bit it is missing all the other information available on the German version of this page, such as the political use of this expression by the conservatives during the cold war or by the ultra-right today.--A-Amos 10:44, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Who wrote the "original" article? Sounds NAZI, IMHO.

"After 1945, when Germany lost its historical eastern provinces". "Germany" had to give them up after having started a bloody war. Saying _today_ "Mitteldeutschland" means often the wish to have the eastern parts of Germany/Großdeutschland back.


 * "The German term Mitteldeutschland is used for three federal states - Saxony, Thuringia and Saxony-Anhalt"

This is simply false! Zu Deutsch: Das ist schlicht falsch! Das hat sich der Autor (wer ist der?) des Artikels ausgedacht! "Mitteldeutschland" ist IMO ein revanchistischer "Kampfbegriff".


 * I don't know whether the term “Mitteldeutschland” is used by right-wing or revanchisitiv forces, but it is used in Saxony, Saxony-Anhalt and Thuringia and to a lesser extent in the rest of Germany to reference these three states, nothing more and without any connotation (maybe a little bit of partnership between these three states resp. its peoples). Toscho 15:58, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I got the impression that the term "Middle Germany" has two different meanings. The "official" and generally accepted definition says that it is region in Germany which consists of the three "south-eastern" states of Saxony, Saxony-Anhalt, and Thuringia (as opposed to the "north-eastern" states of Brandenburg, Mecklenburg and probably Berlin). Under the other definition, which is in fact used by some German national-conservatives as well as most neo-Nazis, the term serves as a synoym for the former GDR (East Germany) as a whole. In this far-right model, the term "West Germany" stands for the territory of the old Federal Republic (1949-90), "Middle Germany" for the former GDR, and "East Germany" for the territories who are now part of Poland and Russia (Silesia, Pomerania, East Prussia). Der_Hans 27 September 2007 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 14:00, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It doesn't seem to be confined to the far-right people who use middle/central Germany to refer to the former GDR. A lot of people who were refugees from the Silesia and East Prussia still use this definition, even the those who were obviously no conservatives in post-WWII West Germany such as the late Marion Dönhoff.  Of course we can dismiss triumphantly that with the passage of time such stands are increasingly marginalized, but we can't predict what Germany will think in 10 years' time.  Who knows?  Perhaps by 2020 Germany may demand and once again possess Königsberg and the currently-Russian parts of East Prussia.--JNZ (talk) 12:21, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


 * "Perhaps by 2020 Germany may demand and once again possess Königsberg and the currently-Russian parts of East Prussia." - That's extremely unlikely. -- Der_Hans 12:45, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


 * "Extremely unlikely" only if we look triumphantly through our 2008 lens. It is a dangerous thing to assume history evolves unilinearly.  With regards to the original article, "central Germany" as denoting the GDR remained in official FRG usage until Willy Brandt and remains rather common among a lot of Germans with former German territories refugee backgrounds, and from Charles Roy's The Vanished Kingdom: Travels Through the History of Prussia (published in year 2000) there are still a lot of latent undercurrents of calling the former GDR central Germany and it is only a matter of time before this revival in sentiment will explode onto the "polite" society level in Germany.  --JNZ (talk) 19:23, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, like I said... extremely unlikely. But it gives an interesting insight how Germany is seen by some abroad. Would you say that you opinion is a "typical" or widerspread one? -- Der_Hans 20:00, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Of course you are a local, you know more about the picture as it is now than I will ever do. But public belief can really change very rapidly - for instance, in 1988 a lot in the Left in the then West Germany would have called you a lunant right-winger if you called for German reunification.  (Gunter Grass anyone?)  Precisely two years later, you would be called a fool if you followed what the 1988-West German Left believed on reunification.  We as students of history must treat things using scientific method, and dismissing right out of hand possibilities of revival of thought currents that are on the want isn't a professional treatment on this subject.--JNZ (talk) 22:19, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Das Erste -> ARD
After finishing this discussion edit, I will change the article, because “Das Erste” is a TV channel by ARD which is meant here. Toscho 15:58, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Fontane
IIRC Theodor Fontane did use the word "Mitteldeutschland" in his "Wanderungen durch die Mark Brandenburg", in the chapter about Buckow and surroundings ("Maerkische Schweiz"). He said that the area of course does not compare to Switzerland at all, but that it does compare to Mitteldeutschland. So IMO Mitteldeutschland is neither a Kampfbegriff nor does it by default include Brandenburg, Mecklenburg or the western part of Pommern. Yaan (talk) 13:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

"Mitteldeutschland" is not Central Germany
The title of this article is wrong. And that despite the article having all the data. The area nowadays often called "Mitteldeutschland" in German is not in the middle of Germany. Therefore it is already misleading to call it Middle Germany. But "Central Germany" is really wrong: "Zentraldeutschland" is an area between "Norddeutschland" and "Süddeutschland". It roughly coincides with the region where Central German is spoken. -- Tomdo08 (talk) 00:50, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I moved the page from Central Germany to Mitteldeutschland (Halle-Leipzig). It may again be moved to an English translation. -- Tomdo08 (talk) 01:42, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

"Middle Germany" is not Mitteldeutschland (Halle-Leipzig)
I directed Middle Germany to Mitteldeutschland (Halle-Leipzig). This is still not satisfying: "Mitteldeutschland (Halle-Leipzig)" is only one meaning of "Mitteldeutschland". -- Tomdo08 (talk) 01:54, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Translation trapdoors
Simply translating words in names has problems. The translation from "Mitteldeutschland" to "Central Germany" already nuked the concepts. "Middle Germany" sounds better, but might still be wrong: Its new meaning is not in the middle. There already was a lot of confusion in Germany, it will not become better by translation. I am also not sure where all this translations here in Wikipedia come from: They should have at least a little bit of preceding exterior standing. -- Tomdo08 (talk) 02:59, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

"______ is not _______"
In among all the unsupported claims, I would add: German is not English.

Tomdo said: ‘"Central Germany" is really wrong: "Zentraldeutschland" is an area between....’, just presuming that the two languages are the same, word for word. Actually, when a professional translator has to translate Mitteldeutschland, they'll usually pick Central Germany: the Evangelical Church in Central Germany (see here), Central German Metropolitan Region (link), and ERIH (here). "Middle Germany" is okay, but it sounds foreign to me and doesn't solve the problem of geographic inaccuracy (like if they had called it Central-Eastern Germany).

Anyway, back to the editing. I'd like to research the Central German football championship more, to find out exactly which areas it covered - does anyone know any good sites for it? - Cheers, Responsible? (talk) 03:21, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

major parts or most
Hello Responsible?, I'm not efficient enough in English to decide whether 80 % or so of a territory is more than major parts or less than the most of the area... cheers, --Zarbi1 (talk) 07:58, 4 November 2011 (UTC)


 * No problem. (Here's the edit I made.) "Most of" just means more than 50%; I changed it because "major parts" isn't a very common phrase and could be read as meaning "important parts" of Saxony-Anhalt. But we could make the description more precise in the article, if you want. - cheers, Responsible? (talk) 22:30, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello Responsible?, it seems you're a native speaker... - so, you would say: about 80 % is most - did I get you right?!
 * I just wanted to point out, that the Evan. Church of Anhalt as well as the Evan. Church of Brunswick should not be ignored. --Zarbi1 (talk) 14:17, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure, 80% is "most". But the word can be used vaguely, so it's best to use a more exact description. Therefore I'll add a link to this explanation of the different regions. (I've created stub articles for the churches in Anhalt and Saxony) - Responsible? (talk) 09:05, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Responsible? - though I'm not quite sure if the Evangelical-Lutheran Church of Saxony is relevant in this case. However a article of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Brunswick does exist.--Zarbi1 (talk) 13:43, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

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