Talk:Cerrie Burnell

Opening sentence
The opening sentence is "Cerrie Burnell (born 30 August 1979)[1][2][3] is an English actress, singer, playwright, and television presenter for the BBC children's channel CBeebies, who was born with her right arm ending slightly below the elbow.". I don't agree that it is in any way relevant to refer to the disability of a person in the opening sentence in an article about them. I propose it should be moved further down the article, if anywhere at all. Qwerta369 (talk) 08:00, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Per WP:LEDE, the lede needs to summarise the rest of the article. Leaving it out of the lede is leaving out a rather important part of the rest of the article. I'm not fixated on the first sentence, if you want to break it into several, that is OK, but I do insist on the lede. For Cerrie Burnell, her arm is quite important to why people write about her. --GRuban (talk) 09:04, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, it's one of the first things that you notice, and people are naturally curious. If they are curious in this way, and come to this page and don't see any mention in the lede, then either of two things will happen: (a) they'll go away again, believing that they've got the wrong article; (b) they'll add a sentence anyway, which may possibly be inaccurate or defamatory. She makes no attempt to conceal her unusual feature: so, why should we conceal? -- Red rose64 (talk) 12:32, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Fresh sources


—Sladen (talk) 11:45, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

"Babysitting arrangements"
This is about this sentence in the "Personal life" section. "Burnell's father, now retired, takes care of Amelie during Burnell's ten-hour shifts filming CBeebies continuity." User:Chrisgullick removed it twice, the first time with the comment "Cerrie's babysitting arrangements are not relevant for Wikipedia, so removing." (The second removal was accompanied by a rather hurtful comment that didn't explain anything.) That sentence has been there for four years or so, and the removals have been Chrisgullick's only edits to the article. I invited Chrisgullick here to discuss it.

Here is my reasoning why it is relevant: Burnell (we try to refer to article subjects by both names, or last name, rather than first; we're not on personally familiar terms with them, after all) is primarily notable for being a CBeebies presenter. She has lots of interesting details in her life story, that we try to touch on in the article - including the arm, the dyslexia, the teenage work, the minor roles, the play, and the children's book - but the reason we (ok, I, but that doesn't give me special privileges, surely someone else would have done it if I hadn't) started our article about her was that she became a CBeebies presenter and got press for that. So how she films CBeebies is quite relevant to our article. Clearly the writer of The Guardian piece thought so too, since that's where we source it to. Here is another quote from a secondary source: "Indeed, when she took the job at CBeebies she was more worried about leaving her baby daughter to work for ten hours at a time filming in the studio than the effect her disability might have on viewers." If you like, we can move the sentence to the CBeebies section to underscore the fact; I'm less concerned about placement, but I do believe it has been demonstrated to be relevant; relevant to Burnell, relevant to journalists writing about her, relevant to how she does her job, which is why we are writing about her, and so, therefore, relevant to us. --GRuban (talk) 15:12, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm an uninvolved editor. It's totally unencyclopedic and doesn't belong here. --Dweller (talk) 16:13, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the opinion - can you explain your reasoning? --GRuban (talk) 18:19, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes. The role of an encyclopedia includes detailing the life and career of notable people. Not their childcare arrangements, or the lives of their non-notable relatives, whether parents, children or both. The existence of Burnell's child/ren is encyclopedic. How she chooses for them to be cared for is entirely unencyclopedic, unless, like Diane Abbott, that choice itself attracts a certain amount of notability. --Dweller (talk) 19:39, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks again. I can understand that, and that does make sense, I certainly agree with the principle. I still don't agree with the conclusion, since this isn't really about the child's life (what children remember their early childcare arrangements?), it's about Burnell's career; but it isn't life or death for me, and I recognize I am outnumbered with at least one reasonable argument on the other side. I will give it a couple of days and will remove the sentence if there isn't more support for it. --GRuban (talk) 20:09, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * So. It goes. So it goes. --GRuban (talk) 18:42, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 3 one external links on Cerrie Burnell. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111006193501/http://www.thisislondon.co.uk:80/standard/get-london-reading/article-23991096-i-couldnt-read-until-i-was-10-says-cbeebies-presenter-cerrie-burnell.do to http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/get-london-reading/article-23991096-i-couldnt-read-until-i-was-10-says-cbeebies-presenter-cerrie-burnell.do
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090328131318/http://www.thisislondon.co.uk:80/standard/article-23649838-details/Parents%20complain%20that%20disabled%20TV%20presenter%20is%20'scaring%20children'/article.do? to http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23649838-details/Parents+complain+that+disabled+TV+presenter+is+'scaring+children'/article.do
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090224070806/http://news.sky.com:80/skynews/Home/UK-News/Disabled-CBeebies-TV-Presenter-Cerrie-Burnell-Accused-Of-Scaring-Children-After-Complaints/Article/200902415227818?f=rss to http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Disabled-CBeebies-TV-Presenter-Cerrie-Burnell-Accused-Of-Scaring-Children-After-Complaints/Article/200902415227818?f=rss

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