Talk:Château de Ramstein, Moselle

de or du
What follows is a copy of a discussion on User:Olivier's talk page:

You renamed Château de Ramstein as Château du Ramstein as that is how it is titled in French Wikipedia. Quite so. But one must not assume that French Wikipedia is correct. I created the page in English Wikipedia as a translation from the French in 2007, but had trouble with whether it was du or de. The problem is that most official and reliable sources use de, e.g.
 * French Ministry of Culture database
 * Regional Environment Department in its direcorty of Sites Inscrits et Classés
 * Moselle-Tourisme
 * The local tourist office in listing castles Les châteaux forts du Pays de Bitche - and its tourist map - walking leaflet - as well as its whole page devoted to Ramstei in its description in French.
 * The regional newspaper, Le Républicain Lorrain, "Baerenthal et son Ramstein" (21 july 2013)
 * Guide Books, including page 305 in Petit Futé Metz -, page 44 in Alsace: Le Rhin Supérieur – La Route des Vins – Sundgau

On the other hand, some sites use du including
 * The aforementioned tourist office(!), but only in its equivalent English page
 * The town hall of Baerenthal on châteaux forts

On balance, it would seem to me that de is the more likely. What do you think? Emeraude (talk) 13:33, 21 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for your detailed message. I checked your sources and I agree with you that, while both "de" and "du" can be found, the "de" version seems to be more common. Also, Géoportail mentions "Ruines de Ramstein", which is quite a strong additional point in favour of "de", I believe. As a side note, as you most probably know, the French Ministry of Culture database is unfortunately not 100% reliable for names. Bottom line: I have moved the article back to Château de Ramstein and made the corresponding changes in the article. If you don't mind, I believe that it would be useful for future users to add your comments on the talk page of the article. To make things simpler, you could just copy this conversation if you wish. Thanks again. Cheers! Olivier (talk) 21:12, 21 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Emeraude & Olivier -
 * Both châteaux are *de* Ramstein, one in Alsace, the other in Lorraine:


 * Château *de* Ramstein (Alsace), in Scherwiller, Bas-Rhin
 * http://www.jds.fr/scherwiller/chateau-alsace-ruines/chateau-de-ramstein-4939_L
 * http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b10203684m
 * http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b10212865z


 * Château *de* Ramstein (Lorraine), in Baerenthal, Moselle
 * http://patrimoine-de-france.com/moselle/baerenthal/chateau-fort-chateau-de-ramstein-3.php
 * http://www.moselle-tourisme.com/visiter/culture-et-histoire/ficheproduit/F853140325_le-chateau-de-ramstein-baerenthal.html


 * Title with *du* in fr.wiki article is wrong
 * https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau_du_Ramstein


 * Faced with several choices, among which are Ministère de la Culture, Sites inscrits & classés vs some touristy articles, I would opt for the first two.
 * Cordialement, --Blue Indigo (talk) 14:27, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

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