Talk:Cha-cha-cha (dance)

Dance
Cha-cha dance is a ball room dance which Latin American cultures participates in. also, where are the citations for those specific songs being cha-cha. I listended to them and they do not seem to be cha-cha songs. the 3rd sextion is about the music. Unlike salsa and slasa (dance), there is not enoguh information to differenciate the two

I object to the term "street cha-cha-chá in Cuba." In Cuba, there is no such thing as "street cha-cha-chá." There is just one kind of cha-cha-chá and it's usually danced inside.Ricardovacilon 21:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Merge
I think there is no reason to have both Cha-cha-cha and Cha-cha-cha (dance) articles. They are practically about the same topic, have substantial overlap in meaning and text, and they do not have enough information separately to warrant two separate pages. I will merge them in a few days unless there is a good reason otherwise. --Yurik 4 July 2005 19:52 (UTC)
 * And the reason is good: These are different things. It is ridiculous to claim that music and dance are the same things. And I fail to see any overlap of the contents, by the way. I have an impression that you have no slightest idea on the subject. Removing the merge notice and suggesting to do drastic article changes only in the areas of some minimal expertise. mikka (t) 5 July 2005 00:54 (UTC)

Actually, people often dance to music. And for what it's worth, the two articles do overlap dramatically in their opening paragraphs, to the point where I had to double-check to make sure they weren't duplicates. I suggest a merge. --Quuxplusone 03:39, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I also have "no slightest idea on the subject", but it seems to me these two could be merged. It's worth noting that this article was originally part of Cha-cha-cha and was cut out to this page by Mikka on Feb 2005. Clearly Mikka feels strongly about this idea. --Bookandcoffee 17:14, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, I do. And I know the difference. I only don't have time to expand the dance article up to what it deserves, wasting my time on various obscure and useless topics like zand, zandik, and People's Artist... mikka (t) 02:09, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Mikka. These two articles should not be merged, for basically the same reason that salsa music and salsa (dance) are different articles. The cha-cha-cha music article should cover the music, while the dance article covers the dance steps. &mdash;Lowellian (reply) 12:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I understand why mikka might want a separate page for Cha Cha music, but the problem is that the cha-cha-cha page has only a few sentences on music: The cha-cha-cha (in Spanish cha-cha-chá and also known simply as the cha-cha) is a style of dance music.

In 1951, Cuban composer and violinist Enrique Jorrín introduced the cha-cha-chá to Cuban dance floors while playing with Orquesta América.

According to Jorrín, the sound made by the shoes of the dancers on the floor sounded like "cha-cha-cha", while they tried to follow the new rhythm that, at the beginning, was simply called "mambo-rumba". In 1953, his La Engañadora and Silver Star became recorded hits. In early days, this dance and its music were both known as "triple mambo" or "mambo with guiro rhythm". The vast majority of the cha-cha-cha page covers the dance. I personally don't think it matters too much whether there are one or two pages altogether. What does matter, however, is that if you want to link to the dance, you only have one page you need to link to. Given the amount of text dedicated to describing the music it /could/ be integrated with the dance, so long as it is given a top-level heading. I hope we can all agree that things are currently a mess. Rosenbluh 22:03, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Disputed information and cleanup
I don't take a stance in the merge/preserve issue, but the overlaps should be sorted out. And there are more issues with this article:

The issue of dancing cha-cha-cha on 1-2-cha-cha-cha or 2-3-cha-cha-cha is disputed, and the article doesn't mention any sources. According to my sources, there is only one rhythmic pattern which correctly fits in a cha-cha-cha song, the one where the cha-cha-cha falls on the opening tones of the tumbao, namely beats 4, 4& and 1. (Source: martin Blais: "Latin Dance Study Guide", 2004, http://furius.ca/salsa-notes). There are of course people dancing otherwise as well, but it should be mentioned that this is musically incorrect. Cha-cha-cha is till very closely related to its cuban origins, and should be danced accordingly.

Furthermore, the artcile starts with some quotes, are these relevant? There should be more information in the beginning about the dance itself, or why not write that there is a dispute over how it should be danced? Comparing the articles cha-cha-cha and cha-cha-cha (dance), there seems to be an inconsistency about the history.

Also, some of the music in the examples is really only pop, there should be more cuban examples to provide an unbiased sample. And having five versions of "Sway" is redundant.

Finally, we don't need to have the International latin Cha-Cha Syllabus written out here, at least not without providing an explanation as to what it is. Some might even see this as an commercial, it's not encyclopaedia-material.62.142.46.22 00:01, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It seems you are not familiar with non-cuban cha-chas:
 * "1-2-cha-cha-cha" issue: You are confusing latin chacha with other kinds. Not only latin cha-cha exist, and not every tune has (or implies) tumbao. There are even several songs named "One Two Cha Cha Cha" (or contain these words). I especially hate "Everybody likes to cha cha cha"
 * "Some qoutes": these are simply trolling; deleted.
 * "International Latin" is not commercial. It is universally recognized ballroom technique.
 * `'mikka (t) 22:37, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

musically incorrect
Would it be incorrect for the feet to go 'Cha-Cha-Cha' at the same time that the music goes 'Cha-Cha-Cha' ? Why ? Maybe 'one' is in the wrong place ? Confused ! --195.137.93.171 (talk) 00:16, 26 April 2010 (UTC)


 * As of 4.11.22 the article explains this as well as I've ever seen it explained. The origin of the name corresponds to the sound of the feet in the original metric orientation. Kevintimba (talk) 09:18, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Cha-cha-cha dance music
The following table is moved out of article. Please provide references that prove that these songs (a) exist at all and (b) cha-cha-chable. `'mikka (t) 22:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Arranged alphabetically in order of artists last name or band name.

In fact, I don't see why this table must be here at all. There are THOUSANDS of cuban cha-chas, thousands of ballroom arrangements and thousands 4/4 tunes that "feel" like cha-cha. A common wikipedia rule is only notable things must generally be mentioned. Wikipedia is not a musical catalog. `'mikka (t) 22:40, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Confused about the origin of the Cha Cha.
The definiton in Wikipedia talks about Pierre Lavelle from the United Kingtom visiting Cuba in 1952 "to discover mambo" he can not discover anything he learn to Mambo and/or Cha Cha but "not discover it."

In 1952, I was doing the Mambo and Cha Cha-ing at the Palladium ballroom in NYC. I understood it to be part of the Afro-centric music of Cuba (Afro-Cuban). Part of the cane cutting rhythms of the slaves. It is a work rhythm as is most of the Afro-centric music in the Americas. It has been danced as the Cha Cha long before 1952, As per some of the Black Exploitation film of the twenties.

68.6.75.51 02:28, 19 February 2007 (UTC)Martin L. White68.6.75.51 02:28, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

somebody redo this! it sucks! ~L.A. Law —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.162.185.66 (talk) 15:45, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

This section is also misleading when it says 'The modern style of dancing the cha-cha-chá comes from studies made by dance teacher Monsieur Pierre'. Cha cha cha is still danced in Cuba today and in the past half century it has continued to evolve in Cuba as new generations of dancers have added their own creative input. This evolution has nothing to do with Monsieur Pierre. Therefore there is no one style of cha cha cha that can claim to be 'the modern style' with these origins. One way to fix this would be to change the wording to "The modern ballroom style" or "One modern style". Also, the article seems to ignore the fact that cha cha cha has continued to be danced in Cuban during the last half century and there is a Cuban style of dancing it that is very different from the ballroom style or the way it is danced in the New York salsa scene. Seeing as the music and danced is originally from Cuba this is a pretty serious omission! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.217.48.98 (talk) 12:33, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Read the Spanish version
Why in the world does the article start with a discussion about the foreigner who traveled to Cuba to "discover" the dance? What about how the dance originated in Cuba in the 50s? What about the Cuban dancers and musicians? They might tell you a different story. Funny how the dance can become universal but language is not. dmcmanam dmcmanam December 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.32.249 (talk) 04:48, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The Spanish version speaks about music and nothing meaningful and referenced about dance. `'Míkka>t 21:23, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, quite so. Macdonald-ross (talk) 20:59, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Completely pathetic article!
Let me list the problems: The entire article needs to be rewritten, or at the very least restructured.
 * 1) Too, many, commas
 * 2) Poor general organization
 * 3) Sentences don't flow, even though there are transition phrases occasionally
 * 4) Ridiculous amount of typos
 * 5) What's the point of a syllabus taking half the article?
 * 6) Italics beginning paragraphs (i.e. "Foot work)
 * 7) Reads like a collection of opinions

Rosenbluh (talk) 21:41, 15 March 2008 (UTC) i completly agree, i say you should redo it. Agreed? Queen Me37 (talk) 20:05, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

not Cha-cha!?
I can find no evidence that any dance organization calls it Cha-cha, whatever people may say informally. It's called Cha-cha-cha in Britain, Japan, all of Europe (including Russia), and best of all, Cuba. So, either this is a US peculiarity, or it's just plain wrong. That part of the text offers no reference. It's got to come out or be modified. Macdonald-ross (talk) 10:12, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * My instructors have always insisted that it is "Cha-cha" not "Cha-cha-cha". (We also count the beat as "1, 2, 3, cha-cha, 1..." or "1, 2, 3, 4 and 1...") However, the references in the article that I've looked at name it as "Cha-cha-cha", so I'm not really sure. Will have to find a reference to the "Cha-cha" variant though, to go beyond "here is some anecdotal evidence". I'm a silver-level competitive dancer in the US, and I've yet to hear anyone use the "Cha-cha-cha" version, except for Dancing With the Stars (a television show). Deathanatos (talk) 22:45, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, American instructors often call it 'Cha-cha', but worldwide, and originally in Cuba, and in international competitions it's 'Cha-cha-cha', so we go with that. Macdonald-ross (talk) 16:39, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Bad Video
The video of the couple dancing in the studio is not a good video to include in the article for the simple reason that the music (which I believe is overlaid on the video) has the couple off-beat. If the couple is dancing to the music included in the video, then they are stepping on beat 1 instead of beat 2, which is not how cha-cha-cha is danced at all. The music should be changed, or, better yet, the video should be removed and replaced with a video of people who dance better anyways. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.247.0.80 (talk) 04:02, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Bad reference
So-called "reference" number 8: "The 'one, two, cha-cha-cha' rhythm variant was popularized by the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra's Tea For Two Cha Cha(1958), and is arguably the correct timing when dancing to such arrangements." This is not a reference or citation; rather it's a statement with no reference or citation to back it up. It contains the word "arguably" which is generally made to flag a claim for which no citation or other support is given. The sentence would clearly be subject to if it were in the body of the article; as an unsupported uncited claim. It's even worse to pretend that it's a reference. I will delete it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.68.134.1 (talk) 19:19, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Clarifying the relationship between the dance step and the rhythm
There are two common ways that the chachachá step can be aligned with the music. One is more authentic but both are in common use. This is a page from a book I self-published, Beyond Salsa Percussion, Vol. 1. I'm the sole owner of the copyright and I understand that by posting it here, it can be edited, used and redistributed by anyone.



One of the most fascinating aspects of chachachá is its direct role in the development of rock. For example, the seminal rock song Louie Louie uses the same rhythm and keyboard figure as the Cuban pianist René Touzet's "El Loco Cha Chá".