Talk:Chaim Ben Pesach

Article is libelous, completely inaccurate and blatantly biased
The article is libelous, completely inaccurate and blatantly biased: Fairness and Truth (talk) 15:48, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Victor Vancier is not the name that Chaim Ben Pesach uses or is known by. To call Ben Pesach by this name is like having the article on Barack Obama refer to him as Barry Soetoro, which was his childhood name. Or referring to Mohammed Ali by his English name Cassius Clay. Or referring to Malcolm X by his earlier name Malcolm Little, or Louis Farrakhan by his original name Louis Wolcott. Wikipedia recognizes in all of these cases that public figures should be referred to by the names they are best known by. To refuse to apply this same rule to Ben Pesach demonstrates a biased double standard. It can be noted within the article that Victor Vancier is Ben Pesach's English name, but the article itself should be under the headline "Chaim Ben Pesach".
 * 2) The article maliciously libels Ben Pesach, calling him a "virgin", claiming that he is not really Jewish and claiming that his mother is not Jewish. When I attempted to correct these flagrant libels, they were restored and I was told that I would not be allowed to correct them.
 * 3) The article libelously asserts that Ben Pesach formed the Jewish Task Force (JTF)"since Irv Rubin started to dissociate the JDL from Vancier because his terrorist activities had harmed their reputation". In reality, Irv Rubin committed suicide while in prison awaiting trial on charges of seeking to bomb the office of a Congressman - so to claim that Rubin was trying to change JDL's "terrorist" reputation is absurd since it was Rubin himself who gave the JDL that reputation. Ben Pesach was convicted of damaging Soviet diplomatic property to demand freedom for 2 million Russian Jews, but no one was ever injured in any of these incidents. But Rubin sought to literally blow up a Congressman. When I sought to remove this libelous twisting of the facts, the libel was restored and I was told that I would not be allowed to correct it.
 * 4) The article takes a handful of quotes out of context to distort their meaning and create an impression that Ben Pesach is insane. Many court cases have held that this tactic of selective quoting out of context can also constitute libelous defamation. A review of the thousands of videos that Ben Pesach and his followers have uploaded to YouTube and other sites reveals that these quotes do not accurately reflect what Ben Pesach and JTF espouse.
 * 5) The article libelously claims that Ben Pesach is barred from entering Israel because of his "terrorist" activities. In reality, Ben Pesach is barred because of his Kahanist views. No proof is offered that Ben Pesach is barred because of "terrorist acts", as the article libelously contends.
 * 6) The article libelously contends that Ben Pesach was involved in organizations "which has been outlawed in Israel and[7] were proclaimed illegal terrorist organizations in 1994 and the groups subsequently officially disbanded". As you can see from this last quote, the article is also poorly written and grammatically incorrect. In reality, Ben Pesach was never a member of the two organizations that were outlawed in 1994 and no one in Israel has ever claimed that he was. So this again is flagrantly libelous.
 * 7) The article deliberately omits the most important and relevant information on Ben Pesach: that he heads a movement with two forums that have thousands of members. There are over 5000 members on his English forum and 3500 members on his Hebrew forum. His Hebrew forum is comprised almost entirely of young Israeli Jews who reside in Israel, proving that Ben Pesach's organization is perfectly legal and fully functioning in the Jewish state.
 * 8) The article deliberately omits the other most important fact about Ben Pesach: he has uploaded thousands of videos in both Hebrew and English with millions of views. The Israeli media has reported that many Israeli Jews watch Ben Pesach's videos. I attempted to introduce proof of this in the article that I wrote, but that was removed.
 * 9) User:The Banner proved his bias when he restored the original article with the comment: "Your denial of terrorism has nothing to do with truth or fairness." In other words, The Banner wants the article to reflect his opinion rather than objectively reflecting the facts.
 * 10) The new article that I wrote is completely accurate and truthful. It objectively presents Ben Pesach and his movement. After years of allowing the most vicious libel against Ben Pesach, the least that Wikipedia should do is restore the original article and not allow anti-Semites to again introduce libelous defamations.
 * Hmmm, maybe strange to you but tend to name he was convicted on charges related to a series of bombings as terrorism. Or do you think that bombing or assisting in bombing is normal behaviour? The Banner talk 18:13, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * There is nothing worse than hypocrisy. Look at Wikipedia's article on Mahmoud Abbas, the leader of the PLO-Fatah terrorists who murdered thousands of Israeli Jewish men, women and children. Abbas and the PLO-Fatah butchers also joined with the Syrian army and the Lebanese Muslims to slaughter 300,000 Lebanese Christians from 1975 to 1982. When speaking in Arabic, Abbas has openly and repeatedly proclaimed that his goal is the destruction of Israel and genocide against the Jewish people. Abbas has stated that his greatest dream in life is to become a "shahid" (an Islamic suicide bomber). Abbas names the main streets of cities under his control after Muslim suicide bombers who blew up men, women and children on school buses, in restaurants, and on public streets. The Wikipedia article on Abbas does NOT refer to him as a terrorist nor does it mention the documented truth about his bloody history of preaching fanatical hatred against all non-Muslim "infidels" when speaking in Arabic. But Chaim Ben Pesach is condemned as a "terrorist" even though he only damaged Soviet diplomatic property to save 2 million Soviet Jews who were held hostage behind the Iron Curtain for more than 70 years. Furthermore you ignore the fact that the Ben Pesach article is grossly libelous and false. Everything in the article that I wrote to replace it is true and factual. Do you want the article to continue to hide the fact that Ben Pesach's movement has thousands of members? Or that his videos have millions of views? Do you want the article to continue to publish blatant lies just because you have a bias against Ben Pesach? As it stands now, the article is utterly libelous. Fairness and Truth (talk) 22:21, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * A few things:


 * Your insistence on putting links in the article text to the forum and JTF sites is link spamming, and it's a clear violation of Wikipedia policies.


 * You make a lot of assertions both here and in the article, but do not back them up with reliable sources, which is a clear violation of Wikipedia policies.


 * It is not Wikipedia's job to promote your forum with “thousands of users”. In fact, it's specifically verboten.


 * You have an extremely poor understanding of what “libelous” means.


 * You have a clear agenda and are a single-purpose account, which suggests strongly that you have a conflict of interest.


 * Your methodology for trying to convince people will not work, and will only result in you being banned for being disruptive.


 * I suggest you rethink your approach. Perhaps it would help to read the article on dispute resolution. —$Kerfuffler stalk harass$ 00:59, 20 September 2012 (UTC)


 * You are the one who violates Wikipedia policies by claiming that everything under the sun is a violation of Wikipedia policies.


 * You claim that my placing a link to Ben Pesach's JTF web site is a violation of Wikipedia policies. Virtually every article on Wikipedia about a public person has a link to that person's web site. Indeed even the original biased article has a link to the same Ben Pesach JTF web site. According to you, virtually article on Wikipedia is therefore violating Wikipedia's policies.


 * Mentioning how many members there are on Ben Pesach's two forums is not advertising, it's an important fact that explains what type of movement he is running. But according to you, even that is a violation of Wikipedia's policies.


 * You say that I have a "clear agenda" which is a "conflict of interest", which you of course again refer to as a violation of Wikipedia's policies. My only agenda is fairness and truth, which is supposed to be part of Wikipedia's agenda as well. Your claim about me is an unproven opinion which you state as though it is an indisputable fact - THAT truly is a violation of Wikipedia's policies.


 * You are making threats of a ban in order to silence legitimate dissent and criticism. That is also a violation of Wikipedia's policies. Fairness and Truth (talk) 03:25, 20 September 2012 (UTC)


 * You are going to have to change your attitude to a less hysterical and more cooperative one if you are going to last on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is about cooperation and consensus. Screaming and claims of holding higher truths will get you nowhere. If you are right you can show that without attacks or hyperbole. I will again ask you to read Wikipedias policies. If you do agree with them, follow them. If you think others violated them, say so in a calm and collected manner without personal attacks or hyperbole. --OpenFuture (talk) 06:41, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * OpenFuture, you are exactly why teachers will not allow anything sourced with Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.12.186.247 (talk) 01:41, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Your teachers perhaps. Good teachers don't promote censorship. The Banner talk 21:32, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 28 June 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved, unopposed for over a week. Jenks24 (talk) 08:02, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Victor Vancier → Chaim Ben Pesach – Much more common name. A recent Google search for [//www.google.com/search?q= "Victor Vancier"] produced about 4,300 results, whereas a search for [//www.google.com/search?q= "Chaim Ben Pesach"] produced about 14,000. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 03:00, 28 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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