Talk:Chakobsa (fictional language)/Archive 1

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Is "Naomi Chumpsky" supposed to be "Noam Chomsky"? -LD

It's his joke on linguistics i think --max rspct 17:37, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Plagarism, plain and simple?
Is this article nothing more than direct plagarism from the Dune Encyclopedia?

One has to wonder, given the casual citing of scholarly works written in the 11th millenium A.G., as though they needed no explanation, or qualification that these studies DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST!! Remember, wikipedia is for real people living in the real world--not for fictitious students of galactic history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.102.18.53 (talk • contribs) 05:31, 24 November 2005

Disambiguation and new article needed?
I am no linguist, but I think Chakobsa is (or was?) a real language spoken in the Caucasus. More precisely, some kind of secret language used by warriors or raiders. -- andrea domenici 131.114.9.221


 * Not sure whether Chakobsa was real or not, but dispute the article's assertion it was a Fremen battle language. House Atreides was using it on Caladan, surely, and imported it to Dune where they taught it to the Fremen. 196.36.9.234 07:44, 4 September 2007 (UTC) James van den Heever


 * No, that's not correct. The Atreides battle language was different IIRC. Jessica knew Chakobsa from her Bene Gesserit training. (I believe she was particularly skilled with languages?)


 * I don't have time tonight to look for the passages to back the above up, but will try to get to it sometime over the next few days. (Chakobsa being the name of a real language sounds familiar. If so, we'll need to add a disambiguation page.) --SandChigger 09:55, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * In the afterword to the Dune 40th Anniversary Edition (trade paperback), Brian Herbert (Frank Herbert's son) states that Chakobsa is from the Caucasus. Not that that makes it true....  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.230.134.223 (talk) 22:25, 27 October 2007 (UTC)


 * That's the small, normal paperback version? I mean, the larger one was softcover as well. I just picked up a copy while back in the States in September; didn't have time to read any of it, tho'. :(


 * Did Brian state that his father wrote or told him that the Caucasian language was supposed to be the source of the language in the books? Or was it merely the source of the name used by FH?


 * As you rightly point out, Brian Herbert being Frank Herbert's son doesn't release him from any of the requirements of verifiability that we hold others to. He needs to make clear whether he has physical evidence to back up what he says, whether it is his recollection of something his father said (and therefore cannot be verified but must be taken on faith), or whether it is his interpretation of the texts/events (which, frankly, I find rather dubious). --SandChigger 00:41, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, Chakobsa is (one English spelling of) the name of a real language. See discussion here, with lots of citations. --Cam (talk) 00:22, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Reference to page on my website & what Chakobsa is...
I'm somewhat dubious of the acceptability of the citation of the "Inama Nushif" page on my website (hairyticksofdune.net) here. If no one can provide a reason for leaving it within the next week, I'll remove it.

From my reading of the books, I believe that Herbert intended Chakobsa and Fremen to be thought of as two different languages, and that Chakobsa was used by the Fremen only in certain well-defined occasions, such as during rituals and when outside the sietch on raids, etc. That would also seem to be the interpretation arrived at by the contributors to The Dune Encyclopedia. FWIW. --SandChigger (talk) 04:22, 18 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I think if one looks at all the mentions, it's pretty hard to escape the conclusion it's a separate language.

fh-dune.txt:   She turned the word over in her mind; sietch. It was a Chakobsa word, unchanged from the old hunting language out of countless centuries. Sietch: a meeting place in time of danger. The profound implications of the word and the language were just beginning to register with her after the tension of their encounter. fh-dune.txt:   Jessica, pulled into the end of the troop by eager hands, hemmed around by jostling bodies, suppressed a moment of panic. She had recognized fragments of the ritual, identified the shards of Chakobsa and Bhotani-jib in the words, and she knew the wild violence that could explode out of these seemingly simple moments. fh-heretics-of-dune.txt:The words "God Emperor" were not in Chakobsa but in the language of the Islamiyat, where they conveyed an explicit second meaning to any speaker of that tongue: fh-dune-messiah.txt:   Stilgar moved across the steps, hid the ghola from Paul's view. In Chakobsa, the hunting language of their sietch days, Stilgar said: "That creature in the tank gives me the shudders, Sire, but this gift! Send it away!" fh-heretics-of-dune.txt:Again, she sent the light beam along the mounded melange. Her attention was drawn to the strip of wall above the spice. More words! Still in Chakobsa, written with a cutter in a fine flowing script, there was another message:


 * etc. Few mentions make sense if Chakobsa were just some sort of small selection of unique vocabulary but otherwise ordinary Fremen. --Gwern (contribs) 21:07 23 January 2011 (GMT)

Hi, Gwern. I think this from Children of Dune fairly clinches it, too (emphasis added):


 * “Koolish zein,” Leto said, voice soft. This is all the good we may ever have. And he added, speaking in Chakobsa, the Atreides battle language: “Here I am; here I remain! We cannot forget that, father.”

Koolish zein is Arabic (Fremen), and FH explicitly stating that what follows is "in Chakobsa" means that he considered it a different language. :)

What should we do about the link to my site? --SandChigger (talk) 01:28, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


 * It's obviously not a RS, but it probably falls afoul of WP:EXT. So we probably should remove it. --Gwern (contribs) 01:45 25 January 2011 (GMT)

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