Talk:Challenger 1/Archive 1

History
Don't know if this should be mentioned:

although true about the CAT competition, it transpired that the tank in question had, had faulty wipers on the sights coupled with mud splattered on the periscopes and as an affect caused severe loss of target aquisition/visibility SOURCE:Tank crew interview on TV —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.229.128.206 (talk • contribs) on 2005-07-09 at 11:48hrs.

-- 80.229.128.206 2005-07-09T11:48:08 (edit)
 * Not quite true about the CAT competition. The Challenger only hit 17, 18 and 19 out of 24 targets. The platoon that shot a re-run hit the most with 22. Only the one American and one German platoon hit all targets presented.Mihalko (talk) 22:12, 20 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mihalko (talk • contribs) 22:03, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Deliveries:

1983---243 Challenger 1 1984---64 Challenger 1 1985---18 Challenger 1

1987---76 Challenger 1

1988---17 DTT

The Challenger fleet:

253 Challenger 1 Mark 2 of which 7 are command, 34 control and 212 gun tanks

156 Challenger 1 Mark 3 of which 4 are command, 22 control and 130 gun tanks

^^^^^ Can the above contribution, not mine, be sourced? Atomix330 (talk) 23:47, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Poorly written article
This is a very poorly written article, it (the article) pales in comaprison to the M1 article. Surely someone who knows something about this subject can write more about it. How many challenger 1's were bought? who(individuals) designed it? Add a photo maybe, do something! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.237.98.55 (talk • contribs) on 2005-10-14 at 18:27hrs.

Trivia
The Challenger 1 tank makes an appearance on one of the episodes of the British TV comedy show "Mr. Bean" in which Mr. Bean (interpreted by Rowan Atkinson) visits a military fair. He leaves his car in the place of an identical car which is to be used in a demonstration which consists on the tank rolling over the vehicle. I may be wrong in thinking this, but I seem to remember it was actually a Chieftain, as the turret was rounded, not angular like the Challenger. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.26.180.56 (talk • contribs) on 2006-08-20 at 01:48hrs.


 * It was a Chieftain indeed.--MWAK 16:15, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Challenger 1 jumping;  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.24.216.123 (talk) 12:16, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Still in UK service?
The article says the Challenger 1 was "superseded", whatever that means, and lists how many were issued, but it is unclear whether it is still in UK service. —Michael Z. 2007-10-03 22:29 Z 
 * The word superseded means replaced by something more advanced or improved. In this case the Chally 1 was superseded by the Chally2 in British armoured regiments from 1998. There are now no Challenger 1's in service with the British army.


 * There are no gun tanks left. Are there any 1 chassis used as driver trainers, AVRE or similar? Andy Dingley (talk) 12:25, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

Bad sights, build a new tank
It scored more direct hits than its competitors, but the poor fire control system and sights caused it to be the slowest firer, and it was placed last in the league tables. As a result the requirement for a new MBT was issued.

An entire tank design is commissioned because of one bad competition? Sounds dubious.

I'm removing the connection between two events here. Please cite a source before replacing this. —Michael Z. 2007-10-03 22:32 Z 

Jordanian Upgrades
From the intro:

"The variants for the Jordanian military are upgraded to Challenger 2 standards and are undergoing upgrades using an unmanned turret called the Falcon Turret."

No references are cited for this, nor is it mentioned again in the article... is it even true? -Togamoos (talk) 13:50, 15 July 2008 (UTC) yes it is true. there is a whole buzz about it.. the unmanned turret is called the falcon turret and is a low selhuet turret with a 120 smooth bore gun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.144.193 (talk) 17:54, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Production total
How can it be 420 when the only other numbers in the article state that Jordan purchased 274 examples originally, followed by 288 used UK examples after their retirement in the late 1990's?

That's a minimum 562 examples right there and nothing is said to make the reader believe that this is composed of the full production run. Surely there were other examples, such UK Challengers strickened earlier in their career before the sale, trials vehicles, a handful that hopefully the UK retained for preservation purposes, hulls reused as prototypes for the Challenger II program, etc.

Some number is off by quite a bit, somewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.249.6.209 (talk) 00:26, 7 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Fixed this.
 * The 274 number is erroneous - refers to the Sbir 1/Khalid delivered in the 1980s.
 * Have found citable evidence for UK-Jordan agreement in 1999 for the transfer of 288 tanks between 1999 and 2002.
 * This was followed in 2002 by a gift of 114 tanks.
 * 288 + 114 = 402 - equal to the numbers now referenced in Jordanian storage.
 * 18 Challenger 1 tanks remain in UK museums or for use in training, research, and development. Atomix330 (talk) 00:59, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Contradictory information
"The variants for the Jordanian military are to be upgraded using the unmanned Falcon turret."

"Jordanian Challengers will be phased out of service"

So will they be upgraded before or after they are retired? 91.10.55.191 (talk) 04:46, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Longest kills distance
The source provided in the article (Dunstan, Simon (1998). Challenger Main Battle Tank 1982-97. Osprey Publishing Ltd. p. 18. ISBN 1-85532-485-7.) gives 4,100 m meters for the longest kill distance not 5,100. Page 40. --2003:C2:722:700:19AB:CB8C:BC3C:FDE8 (talk) 06:59, 11 March 2022 (UTC)


 * The information in the article and its reference by the Simon Dunstan book are incorrect. I was the gunner on 11B who engaged the target at approx 5100m with a L26A1 APFSDS.  The incident was related to Brig P Cordingley at the time by the CO of SCOTS DG (the Commander of the vehicle) and the Brigadier referenced it in a report by Soldier Magazine, a British Army publication, issue 01 April 1991, Vol 47/7, page 11, Reporter Laurie Manton.  M Smith. Hy2kt82 (talk) 08:51, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

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Longest kills distance
The information in the article and its reference by the Simon Dunstan book are incorrect. I was the gunner on 11B who engaged the target at approx 5100m with a L26A1 APFSDS. The incident was related to Brig P Cordingley at the time by the CO of SCOTS DG (the Commander of the vehicle) and the Brigadier referenced it in a report by Soldier Magazine, a British Army publication, issue 01 April 1991, Vol 47/7, page 11, Reporter Laurie Manton. M Smith. Hy2kt82 (talk) 08:45, 27 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The issue with this is that there are competing sources giving different amounts - Soldier magazine says 5100m. National Army Museum says 4100m. The Tank Museum suggests 4600m.
 * I am not sure what Wikipedia's policy is on first hand information, even when citing a secondary source. Atomix330 (talk) 21:07, 28 January 2023 (UTC)