Talk:Chamorro people/Archive 1

Requested move
Chamorros → Chamoru – Although the name "Chamorro" is more widely known elsewhere in the world, "Chamoru" is more aboriginal and therefore the "Chamoru" page would be a more appropriate location for the ethnic group's article. "Chamorros" should redirect to "Chamoru" (without an "s" since that is superfluous for the purpose of referring to the Chamoru people in plural form when preceded by the definite article "the") instead of vice-versa. Adrigon 10:24, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Survey
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~


 * Oppose per WP:UE -  AjaxSmack    06:49, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Support

Discussion
Add any additional comments


 * I'm declining the move as I agree with the Use English guideline. Popular convention should be the name of the article.  Teke ( talk ) 03:41, 23 September 2006 (UTC)


 * First of all, "Chamorro" is not English. It's Spanish.

And secondly, as Truk, the commonly used English name of the Micronesian island group aboriginally known as Chuuk redirects to the latter, then it is only fair and not unreasonable for "Chamorros" to simply redirect to "Chamoru". Doing so creates no major confusion or inconvenience for users. Furthermore, when it comes to racial terms, it's more proper that a racial/ethnic group be the ones to determine what they are called by others rather than the other way around, "popular convention" or not. (Refer to the formerly common in English racial designation "negro".) "Chamorro" is considered disagreeable by an increasing number of natives for its colonialist connotations, whereas "Chamoru" isn't known to be considered offensive by any. And I for one as someone of Chamoru ancestry am in favor of the contents of the "Chamoru" and "Chamorros" pages being switched.

List of notable Chamorroans
Shoudl there be such a list created? Are there sufficient number of individuals to populate such a list? Would such a list include Captain Gumataotao, who has been nominated for promotion to the rank of Rear Admiral (lower half), the first Chamorran to be done so?123 --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 08:57, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

There are a lot of notable chamorros, see the book Hale'ta I Manfayi: Who's Who in Chamorro History. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.142.213.132 (talk) 12:08, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

are the dancers' clothes in the article photo really 'traditional'?
they seem to be wearing european style skirts and blouses instead of grass skirts or being naked. i don't know what they wore before the europeans came. anybody? thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.14.106 (talk) 06:08, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120806050053/http://www.theworld.org/2010/03/guam-loves-spam/ to http://www.theworld.org/2010/03/guam-loves-spam/

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Requested move 11 January 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jerm (talk) 19:03, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Chamorro people → CHamoru – CHamoru people codified their preferred spelling in Guam's PL 33-236 back in 2017, and the Commission on the CHamoru Language and the Teaching of the History and Culture of the Indigenous People of Guam publically announced the preferred spelling back in 2018. It's been long enough to have this spelling established, and for this Wikipedia article to be renamed to reflect their preferred spelling, which includes English-language usage. Ahalenia (talk) 18:30, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose Wikipedia is descriptive, not prescriptive. Per Ngram (and also per Google Scholar) "Chamorro" is still the most commonly used term in English. Things might change in the future, but per WP:COMMONNAME, we follow general usage here. And FWIW, Chamorros are much more concerned about the revitalization of their language (which PL 33-236 actually is about), than about how the word CHamoru is spelled in English. AFAIK, no one in the CNMI (you haven't mentioned the latter?) and Guam has chided Sandy Chung for calling her latest book "Chamorro grammar". –Austronesier (talk) 19:25, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, which the proposed title most certainly is not. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:35, 14 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Subsequent comments
Wow, those are really poorly reasoned responses to an official name change. The wiki bows to official name changes by the relevant authority, e.g. Denali, even when a significant part of the affected population hates it, e.g. Myanmar. Or see Hagåtña for a geographically closer example. Using an Ngram search going back to 1800 that doesn't register results after 2019 for a name change that happened in 2017 as proof of the most used term is particularly FUDdy. And, again, the most used term doesn't matter for official name changes. WP:COMMONNAME was cited above, but the correct link is to the subsection of WP:COMMONNAME, WP:NAMECHANGES. As well as GovGuam, both Pacific Daily News and Guam Daily Post, the major newspapers on Guam, appear to have made the editorial shift. And even if plenty of entities on Guam use the old spelling, see Agana Heights or Chamorro Village, that doesn't mean that the general case hasn't changed.

The ONLY reason not to make this move is that there has not been official buy in from the relevant authority in the CNMI. There's apparently been some discussion, but nothing immediate appears to be happening. Until CNMI officially agrees, I would also be against a wholesale move.

For anyone who wants pre-2017 background, here. Here is the webpage for the new I Kumisión i Fino' CHamoru. There's probably enough content for a decent Chamorro-CHamoru naming dispute article, actually.

An option is a small scale version of MOS:TIES, where Guam topics use CHamoru to abide by the official name change, CNMI topics use Chamorro, and crossborder topics, like this article, (probably) use Chamorro. In any case, let me voice my displeasure once again at the quality of the move "discussion" above. Awful. Just awful. - Featous (talk) 04:09, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Article title vs article text
Currently the article title uses "Chamorro", but the text seems to prefer "CHamoru". This is poor formatting. Given the results of the prior move discussion, I fail to see why the article text is the way it is. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 01:33, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Nevermind. This seems to have been changed against consensus by a single editor yesterday. I have reverted. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 01:35, 6 February 2022 (UTC)