Talk:Champa

Edit removed
Why Koreanidentity10000 is removing my edit with proper citations by the experts on Dong Yen Chau inscription? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.40.125.61 (talk) 04:00, 9 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Sorry it was MarkH21 who removed the edit, can you please explained the reasons of removing, since I've provided my reasons with proper citations in this section. 119.40.125.61 (talk) 04:18, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Graham Thurgood in his paper did not mentioned Old Cham in particular for the Dong Yen Chau inscription rather than it stated "In the mid-fourth century, a stone inscription was composed Tra Kieu, partly in Cham and partly in Sanskrit - the earliest historical historical document for any Astronesian language."

Other Champa experts for examples by Coedes and Morrison also did not mention specifically that Old Cham is the language being used by Dong yen Chau inscription but all of them (including Graham Thurgood) are agreeing on one fact though, the fact that the Dong Yen Chau is the oldest record for any Astronesian language and this includes proto-Malay, Old Malay and Malay languages.

Because this article is belong to Southeast Asia and its history it is imperative to trace the root of most popular language in Southeast namely Malay and Indonesian. This is like tracing back the DNA of the people, and the fact that many of the people in northern Malay do have their DNA traced back to Vietnam but why not the language itself? The DNA and language are the two of the most potent tools to traced back the history of any nation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.40.125.61 (talk) 04:14, 9 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm providing the citations sources so you can check their validity and veracity, and all of them specifically mentioned about Dong Yen Chau in their respective papers and books.
 * [1] Graham Thurgood, From ancient Cham to modern dialects: Two housand years of languagec contact and change. Oceanic Linguistics Special Publication, No. 28., Honolulu: University of Hawaii Press, 1999, ISBN 0-8248-2131-9
 * [2] G. E. Marrison, The Early Cham Language, and Its Rleationship To Malay, Journal of the Malaysian Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society, Vol. 48, No. 2 (228) (1975), pp. 52-59
 * [3] G. Coedes, The Indianized States of Southeast Asia, University of Hawaii Press, 1975, ISBN 0-8248-0368-X
 * I would appreciate if you can revert back to my original edit, thanks. 119.40.122.211 (talk) 04:32, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Untitled
Which role is played by the Champa in Cambodia? If I am not mistaken, they form a minority there now. =Mike

Refer to the Cham article to give a breakdown of religous identity in Viet Nam. The Islamic Population website states the current Islamic Cham population to be around 500,000, so that would mean around 555,000 Cham in Cambodia. L-Bit 03:01, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have removed the incorrect Siri Mara link

_____________________________________________________

In their withdrawal to the south, the Cham came to the Khmer Mekong delta becoming Cochinchina (now South Vietnam). They are now islamic "Cham Bani" distributed in Eastern Cambodia and South Vietnam."Bani" may come from mispronounciation of "Beni", plural of "Ben" for "son of...".The Cham Bani claim to be the "sons of Prophet".I've spent 6 months with them in Chau Doc, An Giang province, border town with Cambodia.

Takima (talk) 16:48, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Kings List?
Is the kings list accurate? I'm getting completely different kings from both the articles in Wikipedia (from the succession boxes) and from several sources. If it isn't accurate, I would remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Esnaz (talk • contribs) 21:45, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Proposing split
The History section is getting quite big due to a fair bit of recent expansion (yay!) and could use its own article. Anyone feel like taking this on, or have any suggestions? --dragfyre_ ʞןɐʇ c 21:03, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Foundation of champa
The breaking off of champa from han dynasty ruled central vietnam

http://books.google.com/books?id=3U014Ik_cvAC&pg=PA20#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://m.eb.com/topic/105118

http://worldvisitguide.com/salle/EP0840.html

http://www.vietnam-beauty.com/cities/da-nang.html

http://www.khmerview.com/History-of-Champa.html

Rajmaan (talk) 04:16, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Abu Hasan and Champa's relations with Song China
An arab named Abu Hasan was sent by Champa as an envoy to Song dynasty China. This shows early muslim presence in Champa.

http://books.google.com/books?id=MBGYb84A7SAC&pg=PA228#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=xrNDwP0pS8sC&pg=PA158&lpg=PA158&dq=abu+hasan+greek+rose+water+champa&source=bl&ots=NPT7OK-2p1&sig=Ol4RzGSjLpu6wsHC_9S7WydOjQ0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=l2LFUPHLM-PV0gGZ9oGYDA&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=abu%20hasan%20greek%20rose%20water%20champa&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=jqAGIL02BWQC&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=abu+hasan+greek+rose+water+champa&source=bl&ots=dGvUZ4rGw3&sig=X6ZcZnL3sqAj4Ezopt57JBwjeWw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=l2LFUPHLM-PV0gGZ9oGYDA&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=abu%20hasan%20greek%20rose%20water%20champa&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=yaeESYegRXMC&pg=PA75&lpg=PA75&dq=abu+hasan+greek+rose+water+champa&source=bl&ots=iNUYKUvpjb&sig=gax8I5zL7OEAGOLzhSR3zOa1cR8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=l2LFUPHLM-PV0gGZ9oGYDA&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=abu%20hasan%20greek%20rose%20water%20champa&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=yaeESYegRXMC&oi=fnd&pg=PA48&dq=abu+hasan+greek+rose+water+champa&ots=iNUYK0Bsqf&sig=qBKL9d2ccEl3hYQrcFIhR2C9bLE#v=onepage&q=abu%20hasan%20greek%20rose%20water%20champa&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=YJibpHfnw94C&pg=PA191&dq=abu+champa&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AGHFUNi1NKaZ0QHJzIGABQ&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=abu%20champa&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=iDyJBFTdiwoC&pg=PA316&dq=abu+champa&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AGHFUNi1NKaZ0QHJzIGABQ&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=abu%20champa&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=fjsEn3w4TPgC&pg=PT61&dq=abu+champa&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AGHFUNi1NKaZ0QHJzIGABQ&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBw

http://books.google.com/books?id=vIUmU2ytmIIC&pg=PA174&dq=abu+champa&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AGHFUNi1NKaZ0QHJzIGABQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=abu%20champa&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=fjsEn3w4TPgC&pg=PT61&dq=abu+cham&hl=en&sa=X&ei=42DFUIKREc-K0QGX1YGYDA&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBA

http://books.google.com/books?id=fj8l8v_yP5oC&pg=PA109&dq=abu+champa&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AGHFUNi1NKaZ0QHJzIGABQ&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=abu%20champa&f=false

Page 183

http://books.google.com/books?id=ncqGAAAAIAAJ&q=abu+hasan+greek+rose+water+champa&dq=abu+hasan+greek+rose+water+champa&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-mLFUK2gL-y50AGX2oCIDQ&ved=0CEMQ6AEwAw

Page 17

http://books.google.com/books?id=8Is7AAAAMAAJ&q=abu+champa&dq=abu+champa&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AGHFUNi1NKaZ0QHJzIGABQ&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAg

http://books.google.com/books?id=_mtxM6KAYvMC&pg=PA458&dq=abu+cham&hl=en&sa=X&ei=42DFUIKREc-K0QGX1YGYDA&ved=0CEcQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=abu%20cham&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=hNcZJ35dIyUC&pg=PA86&dq=champa+gunpowder&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sNVKU5bAIOGgsQS9v4DIBw&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=champa%20gunpowder&f=false

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1360200022000027393

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=7451000

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/brill/sho/2004/00000047/00000002/art00004

http://booksandjournals.brillonline.com/content/journals/10.1163/1568520041262305

Rajmaan (talk) 05:01, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Rajmaan (talk) 04:28, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Rajmaan (talk) 18:37, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

the Ming Shi account of Champa
http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps03_003.pdf

Nagari script in Champa article
What is the necessity of nagari script labelled name to be present in this article ac Champa kingdom and their people have nothing to do with Devanagari writing Indians.--Tan Meifen (talk) 08:10, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Final Annexation of Champa to Vietnam, and Cham resistance
http://m.voa-islam.com/news/world-world/2009/07/01/96/history-of-islam-in-vietnam/

http://www.angelfire.com/vt/vietnamesemuslims/hstry.html

Jihad against Vietnam

http://chamunesco.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=110:the-raja-praong-ritual-a-memory-of-the-sea-in-cham-malay-relations&catid=45:van-hoa&Itemid=120

http://books.google.com/books?id=3oMqrqSp1W4C&pg=PA25&lpg=PA25#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=3oMqrqSp1W4C&pg=PA25#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.onislam.net/english/health-and-science/news/477317-muslim-region-moves-toward-unesco-recognition.html

http://www.onislam.net/english/health-and-science/news/477427-new-discovery-reveals-champas-rooted-identity.html

http://www.onislam.net/english/health-and-science/news/479645-champas-unesco-recognized-sites-collapse.html

http://www.onislam.net/english/politics/asia/459039-cham-muslims-liberate-not-expatriate.html

http://www.onislam.net/english/culture-and-entertainment/books/426394-islams-journey-into-southeast-asia.html

Rajmaan (talk) 09:00, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Historic
History of the Cham–Vietnamese wars

http://books.google.com/books?id=tyhT9SZRLS8C&pg=PA230#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=OIzreCGlHxIC&pg=PT592#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Bc30ytJmwzMC&pg=PA110#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=TgkYAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA251&dq=%22In+the+year+1474+the+censor+Ch'en+Chun+went+to+Champa+with+an+imperial+commission+to+invest+the+king+there,+but+on+his+arrival,+he+found+the+country+occupied+by+Annamese+soldiers,+so+that+he+could+not+enter+it+;+he+then+went+to+Malacca,+with&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SwgkUtiQOO65sQSZ4YHwBQ&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22In%20the%20year%201474%20the%20censor%20Ch'en%20Chun%20went%20to%20Champa%20with%20an%20imperial%20commission%20to%20invest%20the%20king%20there%2C%20but%20on%20his%20arrival%2C%20he%20found%20the%20country%20occupied%20by%20Annamese%20soldiers%2C%20so%20that%20he%20could%20not%20enter%20it%20%3B%20he%20then%20went%20to%20Malacca%2C%20with&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tzh1fQEEFPAC&pg=PA103#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tzh1fQEEFPAC&pg=PA104#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=w7AqZR1ZUZgC&pg=PA45#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=2E_5nR0SoXoC&pg=PA168#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://chamtoday.com/index.php/history-l-ch-s/76-po-cei-brei-fled-to-cambodia-in-1795-1796-to-find-support

Katip Suma's Jihad against Emperor Minh Mang's invasion of Champa in 1832-1835

http://www.chamtoday.com/index.php/history-l-ch-s/78-the-uprisings-of-katip-sumat-and-ja-thak-wa-1833-1835

http://www.chamtoday.com/index.php/history-l-ch-s/83-the-uprising-of-jathak-wa-1834-1835

http://books.google.com/books?id=3oMqrqSp1W4C&pg=PA25#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://chamunesco.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=110:the-raja-praong-ritual-a-memory-of-the-sea-in-cham-malay-relations&catid=45:van-hoa&Itemid=120

"Meanwhile, lack document to record the yourneys of Malay came to Champa by sea. Execpt, the yourney of Tuen Phaow from Kelantan come to Champa by sea to lead a Jihad movement to expel theVietnamese army from the land of Champa"

http://voa-islam.com//news/world-world/2009/07/01/96/history-of-islam-in-vietnam/;

http://www.angelfire.com/vt/vietnamesemuslims/hstry.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=Zw0j_5OauH8C&pg=PT180#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.chamtoday.com/index.php/news-tin-t-c/world-th-gi-i/120-the-champa-history-book-debut-and-a-seminar-on-the-indiginous-people-of-champa

Utsul
http://books.google.com/books?id=tzh1fQEEFPAC&pg=PA104#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=w7AqZR1ZUZgC&pg=PA45#v=onepage&q&f=false

The Utsul language is more related to the Chamic Montagnard Jarai and Rhade langauges than it is to mainstream Cham.

http://books.google.com/books?id=yaeESYegRXMC&pg=PA75&lpg=PA75&dq=abu+hasan+greek+rose+water+champa&source=bl&ots=iNUYKUvpjb&sig=gax8I5zL7OEAGOLzhSR3zOa1cR8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=l2LFUPHLM-PV0gGZ9oGYDA&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=abu%20hasan%20greek%20rose%20water%20champa&f=false

Page 247

http://books.google.com/books?id=WH0OAAAAYAAJ&q=This+fall+of+the+capital+in+982+accounts+for+the+refugees+mentioned+in+the+Chinese+dynastic+records+of+986+(History+of+the+Song+Dynasty+(960-1279),+which+records+in+986+the+arrival+of+some+Cham+in+Hainan+from&dq=This+fall+of+the+capital+in+982+accounts+for+the+refugees+mentioned+in+the+Chinese+dynastic+records+of+986+(History+of+the+Song+Dynasty+(960-1279),+which+records+in+986+the+arrival+of+some+Cham+in+Hainan+from

Cham history
http://www.chamtoday.com/index.php/history-l-ch-s

http://www.chamtoday.com/index.php/history-l-ch-s/81-geography-of-historical-champa

http://www.chamtoday.com/index.php/history-l-ch-s/82-history-of-champa

http://www.chamtoday.com/index.php/history-l-ch-s/99-historyofchampa

http://www.chamtoday.com/index.php/history-l-ch-s/105-d-i-chiem-h-i-kh-u-h-i-an-m-t-c-ng-th-qu-c-t-s-m-u-t-th-i-vuong-qu-c-champa

http://www.chamtoday.com/index.php/history-l-ch-s/128-podharma

http://www.chamtoday.com/index.php/history-l-ch-s/141-the-van-kieu-ethnic-minorities-and-pa-kota

Cham genetic history
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0036437

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/27/10/2417.full

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/27/10/2417.abstract"

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/27/10/2417.abstract"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20513740

http://books.google.com/books?id=k29xGe8kOa8C&pg=PT996&lpg=PT996&dq=Comparing+the+Chams+with+other+Southeast+Asian+populations+reveals+that+the+Chams+had+a+closer+affinity+with+the+Mon–Khmer+populations+in+MSEA+than+with+the+Austronesian+populations+from+Island+Southeast+Asia+(ISEA&source=bl&ots=LpzZZYjI4G&sig=df_gp5QYpCmzcFtpnmgJEOamvPE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uMIBU_S4NarwyAGcrYDwCQ&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Comparing%20the%20Chams%20with%20other%20Southeast%20Asian%20populations%20reveals%20that%20the%20Chams%20had%20a%20closer%20affinity%20with%20the%20Mon–Khmer%20populations%20in%20MSEA%20than%20with%20the%20Austronesian%20populations%20from%20Island%20Southeast%20Asia%20(ISEA&f=false

http://www.mitotool.org/lab/pdf/MBE2010%20Peng-Cham%20paper.pdf

http://www.bioon.com/biology/biox/444697.shtml

http://www.ebiotrade.com/newsf/2010-6/201064171613441.htm

http://www.ebiomed.com/viewnews-311.html

http://www.verticalnews.com/premium_newsletters/China-Weekly-News/2010-10-19/9655TI.html

http://www.pubfacts.com/author/Peng+Min-Sheng/Min-Sheng-Peng.html

http://www.biomeddefinition.com/sdx/e10/all/100/affinity+group+continental+population.html

Old photos of Cham people
http://library24.library.cornell.edu:8280/luna/servlet/view/all/who/Hartmann,%20Paul?sort=Date,Orig_call_no,Title

Rajmaan (talk) 05:38, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Vietnamese fears of Cham autonomy over South China sea disputes
Vietnam fears that if the issue of Cham relations to the disputed south China sea islands are brought up, Cham would demand atuonomy from Vietnam since they were violently conquered by the Vietnamese. Vietnam has put more restrictions of Cham culture and customs recently.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140616-south-china-sea-vietnam-china-cambodia-champa/

Rajmaan (talk) 22:36, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

crossbow technology transfer from China to Champa
Crossbow technology was transferred from the Chinese to Champa, which Champa used in its invasion of the Khmer Empire's Angkor in 1177.

https://books.google.com/books?id=6osQI3ig9UAC&pg=PT42&dq=champa+crossbows+chinese+angkor&hl=en&sa=X&ei=7B6rVMrCGsWpNvL9grgG&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=champa%20crossbows%20chinese%20angkor&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=TWc3P0ZqEbAC&pg=PA145&dq=champa+crossbows+chinese&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9R6rVP36Mo_igwSzu4TQDA&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=champa%20crossbows%20chinese&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 07:17, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Cham People in Vietnam Today
I have a number of concerns with this section of the article. I have travelled to Vietnam on a number of occasions particularly to the areas where Cham people live, and I have seen no evidence of the Vietnamese Government or anyone else trying to destroy the Cham culture or religion. I have visited a number of Cham monuments and the Cham Museum in Danang and have seen respect shown by the Vietnamese people towards the Cham people. Religious ceremonies are still alive and vibrant, for example those held at the Cham monument Poklong Garai at Thap Cham and regular dance and music performances at the Danang Museum.

Land being taken by the government in Vietnam is not something experienced only by the Cham people, but has caused disputes with a whole range of ethnic groups, including the Kinh (Viet).

There is a recently built structure on the beach front at Nha Trang copying the Cham architecture. Several Railway Station buildings are styled on Cham buildings including Thap Cham itself. There are also several important modern Cham cultural centres again including the one at Thap Cham and the new Cham museum at Phan Rang. These are all supported by the Vietnamese Government and local People's Committees, so the complete opposite of what is stated in the article.

While the writer seems to be basing his/her comments on one reference article, I can't do that, but I do have my eyes and ears. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aussiegrey (talk • contribs) 08:40, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

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Singular kingdom or independent polities?
Why is Champa discussed as a singular kingdom in this article and others, even with a capital, when it was a collection of independent polities? Was there a degree of unity in Champa? How independent were these polities? 49.106.201.36 (talk) 03:14, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Military
We need more information on how strong their military is, and why they lost to Vietnam most of the time and Khmer sometimes. We need to expand on what armor they're wearing and what kinds of weapons they wield like any gunpowder weapons? We also need to expand on the types of warships do they use to combat the Vietnamese and the Khmer. Can anyone provide links to them? Koreanidentity10000 (talk) 20:42, 22 November 2022 (UTC)