Talk:Channel Orange/Archive 1

Reference Credits help
The liner notes only credit Christopher Breaux & James Ho for writing Pyramids, while the download on Frank's Soundcloud page credit Frank, M. Ho (assumed to be James; a typo?), T. Johnson, J. Mayer. I'm not sure how to reference that, so could someone do that for me? These credits were located in the Composer tag.

Also, we might need to lock the page. Because it seems like folks are continuing to put the improper credits back on the page. I'm fine with them being there if someone provides a reference. Link343 (talk) 06:41, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Producer credits
I noticed in the edit history that producer credits were removed b/c of the information available, or lacking thereof. The digital booklet lists on page 8 Maloy, Pharrell, Ocean, and Keith as producers. Dan56 (talk) 18:55, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, I removed the track producers because we don't know who produced what at this time. The producers are listed, but what tracks each person produced aren't mentioned. Link343 (talk) 22:34, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

i wish def jam would get involved because Link343 has it all wrong about "track producers". in reality the final "sound recordings" were produced by all the parties involved in the liner notes so please stop changing based on your opinion of producing. in this case malay, ocean, keith and williams are indeed the "album producers". frank doesn't credit the "beat makers" as producers, he credits them as musicians... kind of like an old school jazz record, or more like a movie where you have a whole body of work and you have several producers contributing to the whole... if frank wanted you to list things differently he would have done the liner notes differently. let his words be his truth please... i'm removing the line that references frank doing this album only with malay and "friends" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.203.32.204 (talk) 15:57, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Channel Orange
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Channel Orange's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Moore": From Music genre: Moore, Allan F. "Categorical Conventions in Music Discourse: Style and Genre" Music & Letters, Vol. 82, No. 3 (Aug., 2001), pp. 432–442 From Watch the Throne:  From Made in America (Jay-Z and Kanye West song):  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 01:09, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Proper Credits
I fixed the credits and based them on the iTunes digital booklet. It lists the producers, but does not mention who produced what. There were some un-referenced credits on here for a few days with a bunch of credits not mentioned in the liner notes (Tricky Stewart, The Neptunes, Tommy Heng, N.Cobey). Does anyone know where these came from?

This is the last edit before I started adding sections: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Channel_Orange&oldid=501633980 Link343 (talk) 00:00, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Who cares? Theyre wrong, and the booklet confirms your changes. Dan56 (talk) 00:07, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * these wrong credits come from fans who make assumptions. however thank you link343 and dan for making this right — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.203.32.204 (talk) 00:36, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

tyler the creator is not listed in any credits as a producer. i am removing the credit as a producer to reflect the only official reference to credits, which is the digital booklet published by island defjam — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.79.185.253 (talk) 20:52, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Vintage/Outdated
Diff: The source cited does not verify that the equipment is "vintage", of some high, enduring quality. Furthermore, the adjective's primary definition/connotation relates to a vintage, as in wine, so it's not the best word choice. Regardless, all the source does is take note of "rooms where the Beach Boys and Frank Sinatra recorded, and where some of the equipment remains unchanged." It is therefore outdated, as it hasnt been changed since when those artists recorded. Older "classic" artists do not have some midas touch that everything they used became to some degree "classic". Rather than embellish, "outdated" is the most appropriate adjective for this. Dan56 (talk) 00:29, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Dan.

A 670, U67, Urei 1176, or Pultec equalizer isn't "outdated" if it is a sought after piece of gear still commonly used in major studio recordings to this day. "Outdated" implies obsolescence. "Vintage" is the term the audio industry uses to describe this type of gear. The term is sometimes abused, but that's another discussion.

For example, a U87 from the 60s might respond better to a certain singer than a new U87ai. Keep in mind, both microphones are designed a little differently, but function perfectly well and look almost identical. You wouldn't refer to the 60s microphone as the "outdated 87", but, more respectfully, as the "vintage 87".

Also, it would be really strange for any recording studio to refer to its gear as "outdated".

You can also go online and browse the gear list from any of the studios mentioned in the article to verify that they all contain vintage pieces of gear (if you require a more concrete citation).

You can find the aforementioned Fairchild 670 on Eastwest's equipment list. No one would argue that "high, enduring quality" applies to these compressors.

Roivas (talk) 09:12, 4 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Hardly read any of this. Going by what the source supports. Can't accept this context your giving without a source. Dan56 (talk) 14:05, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

The source also doesn't support the use of the term "outdated", which is your invention. Roivas (talk) 18:06, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

http://www.eastwest-studios.com/studio-one "EASTWEST Studios' extensive collection of vintage and modern microphones provides the sound you need, whether transparent or colored."

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec08/articles/dougrogers.htm "We found that the studios were in pretty good shape for 50-year-old rooms. The equipment was second to none: really hard-to-find vintage gear, and there was a fantastic microphone collection too. We haven't really touched the studios, although our preference is to use ATC monitors, so we've installed things we like to work with. We also hired Englishman Nick Whitaker, who has worked with Pink Floyd, and had him work on some of the control-room acoustics." Roivas (talk) 18:25, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

"Large parts of the album were recorded at Eastwest Studio here, in rooms where the Beach Boys and Frank Sinatra recorded, and where some of the equipment remains unchanged." I italicized the last word, as it supports "outdated". "Vintage" just seems like a stretch in this case. If they havent been changed since the '50s or the '60s, then the equipment the article is referring is behind the times. Is there a source verifying which equipment in particular was used in this case? Otherwise I cant synthesize the Sound on Sound report with the other source and assume the equipment's quality too. I understand the idea behind vintage gear (I researched and wrote The Way I See It (album)), but the only source I could find for Channel Orange's recording there and the equipment is the nytimes.com article. Dan56 (talk) 20:23, 4 September 2012 (UTC)


 * How about comprimising on "recording equipment from the 1960s," which would be when Sinatra and the Beach Boys recorded there? Dan56 (talk) 20:35, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

That's okay with me. All major L.A. studios have older gear from one decade or another. It goes without saying, really. Whether or not you personally regard this equipment as behind the times or outdated is beside the point. Any audio professional will say otherwise. Thanks, Dan. Roivas (talk) 00:36, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Slight suggestion
The article really utilizes the most ridiculous picture of Pharrell possible. lol There are plenty of more professional looking images in commons. Bruce Campbell (talk) 23:59, 27 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I know, but I felt that the colors and eccentricity would complement the article's subject matter; musical style, synesthesia, etc. Dan56 (talk) 00:07, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Target picture
Do we really need a picture of Target here? I always thought images were supposed to help convey the impact of its article. How does a storefront convey the fact the chain refused to carry the album? —  Wylie pedia  08:21, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, the image does just that. It's significant within that section. Teammm  $talk email$ 20:20, 14 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I felt it had enough weight in that section, a paragraph dealing with it. Any suggestions for a more appropriate image would be welcome. Dan56 (talk) 03:26, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Golden Girl songwriter credits
I can't seem to provide a direct link to it, but if you look up Frank Ocean under Performer on the ASCAP song search here: https://www.ascap.com/Home/ace-title-search/index.aspx it's quite easy to see "Golden Girl" is credited to Breaux, Okonma and notably Pharrell Williams who was not listed here before. I've opted to put a slash (/) in between the songwriters credited with writing each song on the track to avoid confusion, since they are different songs with different writers credited. I'm not sure if I could find another source to back this information up, but I assume Tyler was only credited on the last track because he raps on it anyway rather than because someone has a link to an official songwriting credit to him... In the booklet I have only the writers of "End" (Christopher Breaux and James Ho) are listed in the credits for the final track, and no credits are given for "Golden Girl". If Tyler is credited, I think Pharrell should be too.

Feel free to find a better way to convey this in the tracklisting, but if you want to remove Pharrell's name altogether I'd appreciate it if you could give a good reason here first. Cheers.27.252.192.64 (talk) 14:42, 31 March 2013 (UTC)


 * The Japanese edition of the album actually credits "Golden Girl", although a source should always be added with any new addition to an article (even if it means crudely pasting the link next to what was typed). I would have cleaned it up either way. Dan56 (talk) 15:27, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks very much for that. Yeah, I wasn't sure if that would be acceptable but I guess that would have been better than nothing. Now I know.27.252.192.64 (talk) 15:34, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Quotations
Current version of this article has way too many quotations—much of it can be paraphrased. Also many of the quotations aren't following the Manual of Style's quotation rules—the punctuation almost always goes on the outside (the British "logical quotation"). czar ♔   23:49, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Genres
Can we sort out some genres and actually get some sourced genres. Right now I've never even heard of the current genres, I don't even think the current genres have anything to do with the album. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.166.253 (talk) 10:08, 9 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Both genres are sourced in the article's Music section. Dan56 (talk) 00:28, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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