Talk:Chapel of the Ascension, Jerusalem

Wiki Education assignment: History of the Medieval Middle East in 100 Objects Fall 2022
— Assignment last updated by Epham17 (talk) 01:31, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Muslim history section: total chaos...

 * "the destroyed eastern section was separated by a dividing wall and was no longer used for religious purposes. Currently, this building is under the authority of the Islamic Waqf of Jerusalem and is open to visitors of all faiths, for a nominal fee."

Source for last sentence: Ordinary Jerusalem, 1840-1940 : opening new archives, revisiting a global city. Angelos D̲alachanēs, Vincent Lemire. Leiden. 2018. pp. 490–509.

Bad. Very bad.
 * 1) What "destroyed eastern section"? Arguably no such thing.
 * 2) What dividing wall? Is it still supposed to be there? Separating what from what?
 * 3) What was no longer used for religious purposes? If the "chapel" is meant: very questionable! If so: maybe the Muslims moved their focus to the Rabiya Mosque? But why would Christians stop venerating the Ascension spot with the "foot trace of Jesus"? Nonsensical.
 * 4) What building is under the authority of the Waqf and is open to visitors for a fee? Actually it's the ruins of the former Crusader church with the chapel-turned-mosque at its centre, but the current text seems to refer to Rabiya Mosque, or maybe the lost few square metres now under private use.
 * 5) Source: no URL to facilitate quick access. Can't get there to check what's actually written. Far too many pages indicated, 19! (pp. 490–509) for a small amount of info. In short, useless.

Cand hardly get more useless and confusing than it is now. Looks as if editors have never been there, haven't understood the sources, and have messed it all up. Arminden (talk) 14:25, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Did Helena build a first church?

 * "The first church was erected there a few years later, before 392, by a lady from the imperial family, Poimenia. A church is later attributed to Saint Helena and holds that during Saint Helena's pilgrimage to the Holy Land between 326 and 328, she identified two spots on the Mount of Olives as being associated with Jesus' life - the place of his Ascension, and a grotto associated with his teaching of the Lord's Prayer - and on her return to Rome [she died in c. 330], she ordered the construction of two sanctuaries at these locations."

Source: Kirk, Martha Ann (2004). Women of Bible Lands: A Pilgrimage to Compassion and Wisdom. Liturgical Press. ISBN 978-0-8146-5156-8

-1. Is the church allegedly built by Helena another, earlier one than Poimenia's? Is it fictious, since Poimenia's is presented as "the first"? Or can "before 392" mean practically anything, including before Helena, that is: pre-328? That's over 6 decades earlier! It makes no sense. Is there anything based on science, i.e. archaeology, to be said about the 4th-c. church or churches? Any biographical info on Poimenia? If Helena's is strictly fictious, then pls SAY SO!

-2. Again, like above: the source contains no URL, I can't check what it actually says by myself, nor can any editor working from his cellphone, at the very least. Arminden (talk) 15:23, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Rabi'a mosque, crypt: explain!

 * "The crypt is situated east of the mosque, and lies opposite of the entrance. To the right of the entrance, the cenotaph or sarcophagus stands within a niche."

Pls clarify: "The crypt...lies opposite of the entrance. ... // right of the entrance, the cenotaph... stands". The crypt lies opposite the entrance of the upper structure? Or of the lower one? So opposite ITSELF?! And isn't the cenotaph (what cenotaph?) inside the crypt? Or upstairs? So right of WHICH entrance, the one to the upper mosque or the one to the crypt/lower structure?

One should choose a set of terms, and then use them consistently, to avoid confusions. And understand the site's outlook first and write after. And give the complete information, concise but still comprehensible. And... Arminden (talk) 15:45, 22 September 2023 (UTC)