Talk:Characters of Final Fantasy XII/Archive 1

Cleanup Notice
Why is that cleanup notice there? Who tagged it and for what reason? What Wikipedia standard should we follow? Give us a specific reason! Until someone tag it with some clues to start, I'm removing the tag. And in fact, I believe Wikipedians can clean articles up without being told. 私はBluerfnです 16:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The grammar is especially horrendous in the 'Espers' section

Ratsbane
Vaan and Rek's last names aren't really Ratsbane, that is just a joke name Old Dalan calls him because he always kills rats. - Leonffs
 * I believe we need references, since some people already think Ratsbane is their last name. 私はBluerfnです 16:56, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Spoilers?
I recently added a lot of information, that was spoilers in the characters page. Wikipedia is encyclopedic and needs fact, which includes spoilers, a spoiler warning is already on the page. 58.69.177.29 has removed the information and spoilers on these and I feel they should be restored as they are in-game fact.


 * I changed these back to the spoiler filled descriptions as Geg poointed out: "the spoiler warning is there for a reason. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a fansite" - CieloVagrant

We need the spoiler warnings on there too. I just came across an end-game spoiler, and I wouldn't have read it had there been a warning.
 * Sorry, the policy of WikiProject Final Fantasy| has stated as that no spoiler warnings are needed - WP:FF Manual of Style General Rules 10: Spoiler warnings will not be used in sections under story headings, such as "characters" and "plot". If you don't want to get spoiled, don't read it, curious even if you are, simple as that. Encyclopedia's nature is to be spoilerish, that is as Wikipedia itself has stated. 私はBluerfnです 18:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I am very angry there were no spoiler warnings! the games not out here in the uk yet and i am very much lookin forward to getting it and was just reading up on the characters. I am so pissed off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.125.9.4 (talk • contribs)

This page is full of spoilers, some I already know, some I didn't. There should either be a spoiler tag (which I would rather have) or remove them. There's about a paragraph or two of every character's description that tells us what happens in the game. I wanted to play the game to find out, not read this. Daveoh 12:40, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Daveoh, if you want to read about the game and not be spoiled, please refer to a game review. Bluerです. なにか? 01:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Merged?
So why were all of the characters for Final Fantasy XII merged into one page? A lot of text was removed from some of the previous articles. All other Final Fantasy games have separate articles for each character, why can't Final Fantasy XII? --QubitOtaku(Talk) 23:22, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The only article with significant portions of text removed was Ashe, and most of what I removed would probably have been categorized as non-notable fancruft (though if someone else wants to merge it back in, I'm not going to be a bastard about it ;-) ). Everything else is a direct edit of the previous individual articles, with only cosmetic changes to make them flow better (we don't need the introductory "So-and-so is a character from the Square Enix computer role-playing game Final Fantasy XII..." repeated multiple times. And while a lot of the other Final Fantasy games do have seperate articles, many of those have been merged into list articles over the past few days, as well, and there's an ongoing discussion at the Final Fantasy WikiProject about avoiding the creation of individual character articles as a standard practice. Wikipedia guidelines on fictional characters state that such characters should be either "covered within the article on that work of fiction," or "merged with short descriptions into a 'List of characters'," except when the information on that character becomes too lengthy. And, frankly, every individual character article was a stub (save for Ashe, which was tagged with a cleanup note), and certainly not long enough to deserve seperate articles. Given that it's not really possible to expand any of these articles beyond their current form until more information about the game is released, there's no reason to have nine articles where one will suffice. If, after the game is released, there is enough information to warrant seperate articles, then we can recreate the individual entries. Until then, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. – Seancdaug 03:44, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * There should be separate articles for each character. When going to the link you mentioned in your edit it says that major characters deserve their own articles. You have put all major characters into one article. --Ichigo 04:32, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Look again. The link says major characters deserve their only article only "if the article on the work itself becomes long." That is clearly not the case here, though I grant that it may be so once more information is known, and I certainly would have no problem revisiting the issue down the line. – Seancdaug 17:54, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I prefer individual articles better, as long as they have a lot of individual information. I predict these articles will become much longer, but since I can't read the future (T_T), I will wait until the game is released . For now, I've joined the conversation at the Final Fantasy WikiProject. Thank you for mentioning it. --QubitOtaku(Talk) 11:47, 17 December 2005 (UTC) (Updated: 01:15, 25 December 2005 (UTC))

Now that more information and a script is out, the FFXII characters should easily deserve their own page. Especially people like Vayne, Ashe and Gabranth. Vaan on the other hand wouldn't be able to have much more information than he has now, which is a bit of a problem.


 * Put bluntly, Vaan is not the most interesting character and, if anything, will always have the shortest "blurb", simply because he doesn't do much (even adding in his actions against Vayne- he was the one who stabbed him at the end of round two, after all- won't lengthen the article appreciably.) However, there may be a reason to that- he's appearing in the sequel, after all, so he might warrant his own separate character page later on.


 * I mean, hey. If Kefka Pallazo of FFVI didn't get his own individual page, ain't no way a scrub like Vaan is going to get *any* page to himself. :) -Silverlocke980 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.32.64.187 (talk) 06:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC).

So, how about seperate character pages, anybody? -CieloVagrant

Age
How should we add the ages of the characters? I'm not good at adding this. (Update: Done) Taken from FINAL FANTASY XII (Official website) last accessed December 17. -- QubitOtaku 00:21, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Basch = 36
 * Balflear = 22
 * Ashe = 19
 * Vaan = 17
 * Vayne = 27
 * Larse = 12
 * Fran = (not of offial website)
 * Penelo = 16
 * I went ahead and added the ages. I think someone could do a better job at wording it than I could. QubitOtaku 02:42, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've tweaked your wording a little, mainly to incorporate race information. Thanks for grabbing the info! – Seancdaug 08:23, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Voice Actor?
Forgive me, but what happened to Marie Eguro voicing Ashe? Was she replaced by Mie Sonozaki? &mdash;Mirlen 23:21, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Not only that Tara Strong the same voice actress who did Rikku also did Penelo.

Balflear/Balthier
There needs to be consistency regarding names. "Balflear" is the official name in the Japanese version of the game. "Balthier" is the official name in the English version. It isn't a mistranslation; it isn't an error. This being the English Wikipedia, we should use Balthier. A short note in his section regarding the two names will suffice. Druff 19:06, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Romantic links -- Appropriateness
Under Penelo's heading, is it really appropriate to mention a possible romantic interest between Penelo and Vaan? It reads like fansite material. --Robomojo 04:11, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, the official guide says that Vaan and Penelo are "like brother and sister", so I have made a change to reflect this relationship. --Robomojo 03:34, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

are we sure Mateus is male?
It's wearing lipstick, has boobs, female proportions, a mermaid tail, and lets out a high-pitched moan when you defeat it. Why is it described as male in the article? I'm not changing it yet, in case someone has proof that Mateus is some kind of transvestite.
 * Mateus possessed a female body to use as a meat-shield in the Esper's war against the gods.
 * Mateus is actually the armor with his main body behind her. That includes the tail. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.35.34.4 (talk • contribs).
 * It says so in the bestiary of the game. Play the game and you should know that. ;D SamSandy 20:15, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Extra Ashe Page
Looking around the Lonelypages I found this Ashe page Considering that the Ashe disambiguation page even links here, and there don't seeem to be any other character articles for FFXII, I'm not sure if anything can be salvaged from it or if it should just be deleted. (Not being familiar with templates, it seems unreadable to me) Akata 19:45, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * If we want to keep it, it needs a lot of cleanup and a stub notice. But I'm not sure that the FFXII chars need their own article pages right now. Maybe the page should just redirect to this article. --Robomojo 23:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

There is a problem with Fran's bio
I noticed that it says when Fran asks her sister to speak to the wood the first thing she tells Fran is the wood is jealous of the Humes that took her and Fran said she was lying. This is false. I just past this part and the first thing Fran's sister tells her is the wood longs for her child that has spread her wing to the out side world (Or something like that I'll have to look at a script). After which that’s when Fran replies with "Tis a nice lie." than she warns her that the wood is jealous. I would edit it my self but I'm still not sure what she said, if some one has script of the game laying around could you please fix this section. -Some Random Person —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.88.193.238 (talk) 20:48, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

Vaan's hidden secret?
"Vaan also has a hidden secret: he is a raging homosexual who likes to take it in the ass. As he states to Ashe in the Garif town of Jahara, Vaan would claim to be a 'butt pirate- or some other stupid thing', simply so that he could ignore his own feelings of helplessness and confusion before his boyfriend. [...] —"

--203.177.161.61 16:43, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Vandalism. Already reverted. If it appeared again please revert to original. 私はBluerfnです 05:57, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Vayne
Vayne seems to have more information than most of the characters on the page. He serves a lot of importance to the story, almost as much as Ashe. Vayne should probably have his own page, considering how much information is under his profile. 198.166.38.227 (talk) 20:48, 13 December 2006
 * I agree. On a side note, who is this? Why are you using my ID to sign your post? 私はBluerfnです 07:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Oops, I appologize. I just copied and pasted and changed it, I forgot to delete that. Sorry about that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.166.38.227 (talk) 00:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

I have moved most of Vayne's profile to his own article here. 私はBluerfnです 06:23, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

The Undying does look like Bahamut
As Venat's power flowed through Vayne's body, he used it to destroy everything around him and used pieces of the Bahamut to transform into The Undying, a large robotic monster that resembled an angel...

As I said, the Undying looks very much like Bahamut from Final Fantasy X. Look at the edges of the wings. It even uses Megaflare (something) and Tetraflame. Considering that the battle takes plane on the Bahamut... Sjalvastefan —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.176.233.64 (talk) 13:08, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

--Would like to use since I like the idea, but Vayne resembles a "FF final boss" too much- you know, wings, deep music, etc. While the "Bahamut" bit makes a good deal of sense, and he *does* use the moves Megaflare Sword and Tetraflame, they're little more than references, in my opinion, and don't have deeper meanings. In short, meaningless verbiage that doesn't belong on Wikipedia.

Though I really do like the concept. :)


 * Are you kidding me?! The Undying takes parts of the Sky Fortress Bahamut and uses attacks Megaflare, Gigaflare Sword and Teraflare, which were used by the three Bahamut summons in FF VII. To top that with the fact that he looks very much like Bahamut, I'd say that is one heckuva big reference there. SamSandy 20:21, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup tag
As I read the article I could not help but notice there is too much fancruft here. I could see spelling errors here and there as well. Please do something. 私はBluerfnです 18:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Hello. I was thinking, could the article follow the format of the other "List of Final Fantasy ** characters" articles, i.e. Sections divided into:
 * 1. Main Playable Characters
 * 2. Other Major Characters
 * 3. Minor Characters
 * I wish to do that now, but as per wikipedia policy i'll discuss first. 私はBluerfnです 09:32, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Since when is Ashe Vaan's love interest?
Besides the little bit of dialogue they shared at Jahara, I honestly can't find any evidence in the game that shows that Vaan was in love with Ashe. That's just an assumption. I don't think there is any real proof of that, since they hardly interacted in the game. 24:57, 18 December 2006 GrandpaPorridge
 * I agree, and IMHO that is all fancruft and doesn't warrant mention. In fact, there is a lot of fancruft in here, and needless ramblings on the happenings in Final Fantasy XII. 私はBluerfnです 08:04, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
 * In fact, I recall that the director even stated that while Vaan and Ashe might fall in love, "it would not necessarily be with each other." That line, I think, holds lots of weight. Thankfully- I'm tired of love stories in RPGs, though that's off-topic. Anyhoo, there's no evidence in the game at all that I can find, and I've both beaten it and done the hunt sidequests. As you said, Bluerfin- it's fancruft. -Silverlocke980 1:43 A.M. December 20)

Change of fon to von
I changed Basch fon Rosenberg to Basch von Rosenberg in this article. It's obvious to anyone who's played the game with subtitles on that this is the correct spelling. If you need further proof:

Google search: "basch von rosenberg" 1109 results

Google search: "basch fon rosenberg" 76 results

The translation is clearly what people are tripping up on, but we're not spelling Baflear or Furan those ways in the North American version of the game. -Oatmeal batman 19:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You cannot posssibly use a Google search engine to back your statement! It is a search engine for crying out loud! Anything you search, even if misspelled, can appear! And it is officially, fon Ronsenburg, in the game, Japanese or English version, in the ULTIMANIA, in the Brady Guide, in all FFXII merchandise. von reverted to fon. 私はBluerfnです 08:34, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not trying to be rude, but actually, to tell you the truth, Bluerfn, Basch's name is actually "Basch fon Rosenburg" when the Japanese romanization is used! And... in both the English version and the Japanese version, the English name is definetely "Basch fon Ronsenburg". Sjones23 20:45, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Even if you point that out, Sjones23, they spelt it Ronsenburg with an n, even if the romanization and romaji are rosenburg and rozenbagu. 私はBluerです 00:55, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I am well aware that they spelt it Ronsenburg with an n. I am not sure why, but that definitely wasn't Square Enix's fault. Sjones23 01:16, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Oatmeal batman, I want to let you know that this site explains why Basch's error in the name is shown. Regards Sjones23 01:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It is obvious that the fon is an error of the translators, or the Japanese people in charge creating the official name spelling. It just hurts to read it fon if you have any relation to german nobility. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.104.117.202 (talk) 20:45, 25 April 2007 (UTC).
 * The thing is, Basch is not German. It has never been stated as an error by the game developers. It has nothing to do with German nobility. Please accept it, and cease the gaming discussion. &mdash; Bluerです. なにか? 06:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Here be the official spelling at last:. Bluerです. なにか? 19:45, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Japanese names
I was about to consider adding more Japanese names for the rest of the characters. I would like to have everyone find the Japanese names and once you find them, you can also add romanji as well. It is a suggestion that I wanted to do, but I need your help. Well, if any of you out there can find the Japanese names for the rest of the characters, let me know. Thanks!! Sjones23 20:18, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * In case you didn't know, I should also note that I used the Japanese character names from the Japanese interwiki website for FFXII. Sjones23 21:42, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Added Japanese names complete with their kana, kanji and romaji. Feel free to edit any mistranslations; I'm still learning Japanese. 私はBluerです 19:38, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Was the name 'Ashelia' in the Japanese version? I don't really remember it (but it's been almost a year now since I played it), and searching for it in Japanese only really seems to get hits for sites talking about the English version.Kamina 00:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, if any of you played the Japanese version of FFXII or go onto YouTube for the Japanese cutscenes in the FMVs, you can hear and see that it is the Kana for 'Ashelia' Sjones23 20:37, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I removed it, but if you can point out a link for evidence, since I have the japanese script and i couldn't find any Ashelia in there, that can be moved back in. 私はBluerです 06:04, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Ashe's name
I was re-watching the scene where Ashe meets the Occuria, and when Gerun addresses her, the subtitles say "B'nargan" not "B'nargin". When you look at the Japanese version of her name, "Banarugan", "B'nargan" makes a lot more sense gramatically. Where did "B'nargin" come from, and is it correct?

Here a screenshot for proof:

PiccoloNamek 10:57, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Eh, B'nargin's what's official in Japan. But then again, the Romanizations for this game are weird.  They made Rōzenbāgu into Ronsenburg somehow.—ウルタプ 14:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I saw that too, but I want to believe that as a typo; since it occurs only once and there's more occurences of B'nargin. What Urutapu is saying is true, still, Balthier is romanized as Balflear in Japan. Even the Ultimania spelt it like so, but B'nargin and Ronsenburg were correctly spelt. 私はBluerです 14:20, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd say it's a typo. Ghis says B'nargin at 00:40. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 14:30, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * (@Bluefrn) Well, Balflear is actually okay for Barufurea. I'd say "Balthier" is the made-up name (but it's one change I understand. Balflear sounds way too weird to an American/English/whatever).—ウルタプ 14:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks for clearing that up for me.PiccoloNamek 14:46, 14 February 2007 (UTC)