Talk:Characters of the Devil May Cry series/Archive 1

Is this really neccessary?
I think not. Each of these characters are already described in the games in which they appeared. Aside from replicating information already in the individual game pages, the article is poorly-written, and is rife with editorializing, speculation, and original research. Also, it does nothing to justify its existence beyond simply listing and describing these female characters. I propose simply deleting the article, but I'll wait about a week until doing so to see if there's any feedback. --Boradis 19:22, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The section of "Characters in Devil May Cry" deals with secondary/ important yet minor characters to the overall storyline. Vergil, though a fairly new character is a main character to the series, and that he has a direct relation to both the main character of the series (Dante) and the concept/mythology around the series' storylines (which involve Sparta- their father). With this raised, why merge the article of a main character with the secondary/supporting characters of the game? There's already links to both Dante and Vergil's Wikipedia page that exist on the "Characters of Devil May Cry" page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.68.190.182 (talk) 02:35, 25 January 2007 (UTC).


 * First, the article was made for these character because the games articles gives very little and poorly information about these characters (Especially Lucia), and so, it's not replicating information. I started this article because of the lack of information about these characters in the rest of the articles about DMC, and I tried to make it the best I could, so... I really don't know what you mean with speculation and original research, I don't think I've added something that was not shown in the games. At any rate, Dante's article is the only one that could be interpreted as "Good one", while Vergil's and Sparda's article are even smaller and with less information that these ones.


 * First: I don't agree with you about this article not justifing its existence, and second, I don't see a justifing reason to delete the article in the first place.


 * If you would like to help to improve the article, I would really appreciate it, after all, there's probably a lot to do (Like adding information about Matier), but suggesting a deletion is not a solution neither a way to help. These characters are co-protagonist after all. (Alexlayer 20:17, 20 December 2006 (UTC))


 * An example of editorializing is the first line in the Lady entry, which is simply the writer's opinion on how attractive she is, and opinion has no place on Wikipedia. Also, longer and more information is not always optimal in an encyclopedia, and is not a justification for an article's existence. See WP:Not, particularly the sections "Wikipedia is not a directory" and "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information". As two of these women are one-shot characters who appear in one game each, while Trish is provided as basically an alternate costume in DMC2, they should be included in those game pages in 1-2 paragraph summaries of their plot importance and gameplay features (as playable characters and/or as bosses). So far, none of them have been important to the series beyond the games they debuted in, or even mentioned in the other games. --Boradis 20:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * To be more accurate, Trish's appearance in the Viewtiful Joe games and her cameo in DMC2 would count as "mentions" by the game creators, but nothing more. Viewtiful Joe isn't DMC canon, and Trish isn't mentioned within the plot of DMC2. By contrast, Dante, Vergil and Sparda all transcend individual games to be relevant to the series as a whole. --Boradis 20:46, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, I've read what you told me to, yet I find it hardly fitting to this case. It is true that they are techincally One-shot character, but that's the main reason for which I made an article of all of them instead of one article for each one as there was in the past (and since those were stubs, I understand that they were deleted). Yet, even if the are one-shot characters they ARE relevant themselves, not to mention that, as there is a new female character in DMC4, there is the posibility than none of these girls, not even Trish, might come back to the series with a relevant role, but that doesn't mean that they deserve to be forgotten. That's the reason for the existence of this article, for these characters we already know and for the ones yet to be presented. And as I told you, the games article gives almost no information about them. Those articles tends to focus more on technical information as gameplay, criticism or new elements, but barely on the story or the characters. That's why articles about the characters are needed, like this one or another one that I'm planning to do, "Villans/Antagonist of Devil May Cry" to give information about Mundus, Arius and Arkham, others releveant characters.
 * As I said early, whenever this article has much or less reason to exist, there's not a justifying reason to delete it instead of trying to help to improve it and make it worthy. It is recently created, so it might surely need adjustments, just give it time, day by day, much users are helping to improve it.
 * Oh, and I didn't ask for an example of editorializing since I considered that that could be true, but speculation and original research? Is there's really any? (Alexlayer 21:03, 25 December 2006 (UTC))


 * I pointed out the editorializing because it's an example of the kind of fan opinion that doesn't belong on Wikipedia. All your other points above are also fan opinion. These characters are all served well enough with a couple paragraphs on the page of the games they appeared in. I stand by my opinion and plan to recommend it for deletion later this week. If your position is more in keeping with the purpose of Wikipedia the page will remain. I'm not doing this to be a jerk, I have legitimate concerns about the purpose of this page, but I didn't simply redirect it. I'm giving it a chance to prove its relevance. --Boradis 23:09, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Merge Proposal
To be blunt, the articles on Arkham, Sparda and Vergil are weak. The Sparda article (while actually pretty good) is fair short and is currently about as detailed as it can be, though it could use some sourcing. My main concern is actually the Vergil and Arkham articles.

For one, a large part of them is that they're essentially a plot summary of Devil May Cry 3 from the perspective of each character which is fairly fancrufty as a good, FA-class Plot Summary in Devil May Cry 3 should cover all of this already. The Literary Roots section for Vergil, while well thought out, really needs some sort of sourcing for the amount of space it gets. It smacks of Original Research to me.

Thoughts are appreciated. Lankybugger 18:18, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * That Literary Roots section on Vergil is copied from Dante's page and was originally called "Philosophy and Speculation", until I renamed it. I think the OR in it can be removed simply by taking out the bits about Trish and Mundus, as their (possible) paralells are less obvious. While The brothers' names are a concrete connection to the Divine Comedy, Vergil's role in the first game to me seems to be in that hazy area between obvious and OR. In my opinion of course. --Boradis 02:54, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The whole section makes me a little uncomfortable (in Dante's article as well, but that's a mountain I'll climb later). While I've got no objection to mentioning that Dante and Vergil are names taken from the Divine Comedy with a sentence or two about the "original" Dante and Vergil, I think even the paragraph as it exists is OR. Cheers, Lankybugger 03:08, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

To-Do List
I'm going to be adding a to-do list to the talk page very shortly. Anyone who intends on working this article with me should feel free to contribute items to the list or tackle anything which hasn't been completed yet.

Cheers, Lankybugger 18:20, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Great, thanks for setting this up. What final order should these characters be listed in on the page? By game? And if by game, should they be listed in order of release date, or the canon's chronology? --Boradis 02:44, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Right now I support Alexlayer's format. It works pretty well. Cheers, Lankybugger 03:09, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Big Step
I've recently edited the article seriously, adding a bit of information about Dante, Nero, Sparda and Vergil with links to the respective articles. Also added information about Mundus and merged it with the article of Arkham (Though this one might need some clean-up).

I've though about dividing the article in Protagonist, Supportive Characters and Antagonist. Though it's still lacking information about Matier and Arius, and maybe Kyrie is worth mentioning too.

And before someone moves Lucia, let me explain this: Objetively looking to the meaning of Protagonist, Lucia is actually more of a protagonist of Devil May Cry 2 than even Dante, since the plot (as small as it is) resolves actually around Lucia, and Dante is more of a complement for her than she to Dante.

Any colaboration is gratefully accepted. (Alexlayer 03:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC))


 * Nice! I like this organization better than my own proposed organization. I'll remove it right now. Cheers, Lankybugger 03:05, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, the work with the pictures is finished too, at least by now. Sorry about Jester's image being a GIF, couldn't find anyone better. I'm done for today (Alexlayer 03:59, 5 January 2007 (UTC))

Fixed up Jesters GIF image yesturday for ya mate. only took me a couple of minutes & i think its quite an improvement as the old one was a bit messy. Dark-Ace


 * Uhm... Thanks! (Alexlayer 05:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC))

Removing plot summary and in-universe tags?
Myself, Lankybugger and Alexlayer have done a lot of work to clean this up and bring it closer to Wikipedia standards. I believe we've solved the problems of the long plot summaries and in-universe writing, and propose those tags be removed. --Boradis 21:23, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, after such clean-up (Great work!), I think it's about time. Personally, I aprove that proposal (Alexlayer 03:59, 9 January 2007 (UTC))

Name references?
Would it be too much like original research to point out the name similarities between Trish, Lucia and Lady (Mary) with the female characters in The Divine Comedy: Beatrice Portinari, Saint Lucy, and the "gentle lady" (Mary, Jesus' mom)? See List of cultural references in The Divine Comedy for more info on these historical figures. --Boradis 22:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure how much of Original research it is, but I think you are right. Yet, even if it is a bit of OR, I personally find DMC full of OBVIOUS references to the Divine Comedy, including the character's names (Just to mention: Until Kyrie's name was revealed, I was beting she would be called Rachel), and I think they are worth mentioning. (Alexlayer 04:05, 9 January 2007 (UTC))


 * As long as the references are short (I.E. not whole sections dedicated to the subject, just a sentence or two) I think it can pretty easily accepted without bringing out the Original Research cries. We just have to be careful not to draw TOO many conclusions. Cheers, Lankybugger 05:54, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion about organization
This is just a thought here, but wouldn't it make more sense for the article to omit those characters who currently possess articles or for whom there is not enough information to give an encyclopedic entry? Say, getting rid of the placeholder entries for Vergil, Dante, Nero, Sparda and Kyrie?

So instead of the current layout, we'd instead have this:

Protagonists
 * Lucia

Supporting Characters
 * Eva
 * Trish
 * Matier
 * Lady

Antagonists
 * Mundus
 * Arius
 * Arkham

With a See Also at the bottom directing people to the Sparda, Dante and Vergil articles for now? This is just me thinking here, but I really feel that the placeholders with only a couple sentences and the large pictures currently dominating the height of the article really hurt things.

An alternate suggestion would be to fill the placeholders with MORE information from the individual articles, just so that the space is wasted.

Cheers, Lankybugger 06:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure. Though some other character lists have the major characters included even though they have their own pages, like List of characters in Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, and List of characters in Naruto, and List of characters in Transformers: Cybertron. Others don't, like List of characters in the Harry Potter books. But most seem to include everyone, with like a sentence or two about the leads with links to their pages. Actually, the Harry Potter list is the only one I saw that doesn't have everyone. --Boradis 08:22, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Also, I think it makes more sense to have Nero following Dante in the order of protagonists. Yes, D, L, N is alphabetical order, but I think order of relevance to the series should take precedence. With Nero as the new focus for the series, at least until the game comes out and we find out if it's any good, he is currently extremely relevant (even if there's little info). Meanwhile Lucia's status as optional second bannana in the least beloved game of the series would put her last. Other pages don't go alphabetically, and instead go by relevance, for instance List of characters in the Kingdom Hearts series, has Sora on top despite following Donald and Goofy alphabetically. --Boradis 08:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * We also don't have the supporting characters in alpha order, or the villains. I propose for those other sections that the ordering should be first in order by relevance to the series as a whole first then by game. Supporting characters: Sparda, Eva, Trish, Matier, Lady, Kyrie. Villains: Mundus, Vergil, Arius, Arkham. Or we could break the entire thing up by game. --Boradis 08:52, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thinking about it, perhaps it would be best to break it down by game so that it's easier to refer to and is organized in a more readily apparant fashion, with characters appearing in multiple games at the head of the article. So instead of the current order it might look like this:


 * Multiple Appearances (or some better name)
 * Dante
 * Vergil
 * Sparda
 * Trish? (debatable, given that her appearances outside of the first Devil May Cry are cameos)
 * Devil May Cry 3
 * Lady
 * Arkham
 * Devil May Cry
 * Eva
 * Mundus
 * Devil May Cry 4
 * Nero
 * Kyrie
 * Devil May Cry 2
 * Lucia
 * Arius


 * Something like that, perhaps? Lankybugger 18:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Personally, I think that this article should list ALL the characters of the series, and I think that adding some more information of Dante, Vergil and Nero would be good, so that those points won't look like just an image using space. (Alexlayer 19:57, 9 January 2007 (UTC))


 * If you look at other page examples I listed above, you'll see that one or two sentences (with or without a picture) is enough to note those characters that have their own pages. We don't need to duplicate information detailed elsewhere. More is not always better, especially when it's redundant. Then it's just "padding" (less useful information that's added simply to increase length), which contrary to popular belief, always looks like crap. --Boradis 20:57, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't mean to add useless information, but just something like I recently did with Dante's point. (Alexlayer 21:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC))


 * About the order of the main characters, I didn't order them like that exactly because of alphabetical order (Though, ironically, it was like that) but because of the order of the games, which is the same order in which the supportive characters and antagonists are introduced. I don't think that placing Nero under Lucia would mean that she is more important than him. (Alexlayer 19:58, 9 January 2007 (UTC))


 * That's how it's done throughout those other Wikipedia articles I listed, with relevence being the primary criteria for ordering characters. However, I like LankyBugger's listing above, though I'd bump Trish down to the DMC(1) grouping, since her appearances elsewhere aren't canonical and would be best described under her entry. I'd also list them in order of release, even if it's not chronological within the series' timeline. Most people looking for information on the games (who aren't rabid fans like us) will be totally confused by an internal chronological ordering of the characters. 1,2,3,4 is the way to go, IMO. --Boradis 21:06, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thinking about it further, 1,2,3,4 is probably for the best. Chronological order should probably be left as the domain of individual articles. I also agree with you on the padding, though I think that perhaps a LITTLE more can be written. Not much, obviously, but it is a little stark right now. Cheers, Lankybugger 21:22, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm fine with stark. Some pages have no more for characters with their own pages than a link. I'm particularly taken with the List of characters in Naruto page, it's very clean and professional and straightforward. --Boradis 23:34, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Reorganization
I just reorganized the characters by game, with the recurring characters up top, where I sorted them roughly by importance to the series. The only one who's placement I'm not sure about is Mundus, since (as far as I know) he has only been mentioned in DMC1, despite being Sparda's main enemy. For the time being I'm leaving him under recurring, though he doesn't technically recur. Sparda and Eva of course are a little vague as well, with Eva only appearing as a voice in a flashback in DMC1, and Sparda never appearing but being talked about a lot, but I'm comfortable that they're relevant to the series as a whole. Suggestions welcome. --Boradis 18:28, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it's well done, but I believe that Mundus and Eva should be in Devil May Cry 1's section. After all, it's there where they are relevant. Eva was only mentioned in DMC3 while Mundus's role in the same game is hardly more than a cameo appearence. (Alexlayer 18:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC))


 * I disagree about Eva, and wish you had waited for feedback before making the changes. Please put Eva back, and wait for at least one other person to comment. --Boradis 18:51, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Fine, already done, at least until someone votes for the opposite option. Sorry about the hurry, my bad. (Alexlayer 18:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC))


 * You know what, I just remembered that Mundus does appear at the end of DMC3 in Vergil's bonus scene. I'm putting him back in recurring. --Boradis 20:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

A note on images
Generally I try to stay out of the whole image thing since copyright issues are a real can of worms -- aside from the occassional post asking for some, like I did on the Dante page. Plus, I'm much more of a words guy. I'm just hoping that all of the images we've been adding to this and other DMC pages are free of copyright restrictions, and are properly noted as such. Otherwise, they'll eventually get deleted by an admin, and that would suck. --Boradis 18:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps we should limit the number of images we use? I'm pretty sure some of the characters don't really benefit from the addition of images (such as Mundus, Arius, Matier). Cheers, Lankybugger 20:04, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I added most of images and I made sure to add the Licensings and Sources, so I don't think that deletion might happen, hopefully. I'm also more of a words guy, but I like articles being ilustrated since I believe it makes them much better. Remember what they say "A photo say more than a hundred words" (Alexlayer 04:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC))

A thought has occurred to me...
Perhaps we should think about populating Devil May Cry (series)? This would allow coverage of the upcoming anime in a place not covered by a specific title and would also allow for a general series comparison (though I'd try to avoid cruftiness, if possible). I was just realizing there was no series page when I was filling in the 5th Anniversary Triple Pack release dates on the various pages, which is also something which could stand to get some coverage.

So... yeah? No?

Cheers, Lankybugger 04:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

To-do list points
Dang, we've really turned this into something decent. We could certainly use more footnotes (and not just to the games themselves, but to other official information), but we've knocked a bunch off the to-do list. What I think of what we've done so far:


 * General copyediting for spelling, grammar and readability. (I think this is definitely done.)
 * Include footnotes in the article. (But could use more.)
 * Create a Gameplay sub-section for each character with playable segments. (The only one I would do this for is Lucia, since Dante and Vergil are covered on their own articles.)
 * Remove any plot specific items for each character which are repeated in the plot summaries for the game articles. (Done diddly done.)
 * Add character boxes for each character. (Do we need this? Wouldn't it be redundant?)
 * Make sure that the links to this article direct to the proper sub-heading (IE links to this article concerning Eva jump TO Eva's portion in the article). )I've done this where I've seen it, but haven't made a thorough sweep of the other pages.)

What do others think? --Boradis 23:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Between you and Alexlayer, I think a lot of ass has been kicked which has lead to improving this article. I'd leave the Footnotes thing up until it's done, but other than that you've nailed those. Character boxes can be removed from the list and the only things which are really left are wikignoming the What Links Here page. Cheers, Lankybugger 01:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, I've removed the items. Trish and Lucia need Gameplay sections, but I'll probably wind up covering them in the Devil May Cry 2 article. Cheers, Lankybugger 01:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to remove the to-do item about making sure links to this article go to the proper subsection. I've been over the other articles now pretty thoroughly, and have corrected the links wherever it's been needed. --Boradis 19:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Additional Kyrie and Nero info
Alexlayer, where did you get the new information about Kyrie and Nero? It's relevant and sounds right, but unless you have a cite it's questionable. --Boradis 18:35, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Archiving of discussion and removal of merge tag?
Firstly, I think we should archive the discussion at the top of this talk page ("Is this really neccessar?") that's left over from when this was "Women in Devil May Cry". But I don't know how to do it. Help? Also, as I discussed on Sparda's talk page, I'm of the opinion that both Sparda and Vergil are relevant to the series as a whole, and so deserve their own pages, and I'd like to remove those tags. Agree? Disagree? Thoughts? Bueller? --Boradis 02:48, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

They deserve the articles they have especially Vergil who has a complete and detailed article, there is no real reason to keep the tag but as often happens in Wikipedia no body will take the time to remove it -Dark Dragon Flame 04:22, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I just kept forgetting. --Boradis 05:08, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I did it a few hours ago, there was no point in keeping them since nobody seems really interested in doing so and the topic was already closed in the articles that were being suggested in the merger, hell those don't even have the tags anymore so there was no point in keeping them. -Dark Dragon Flame 05:19, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Ummm ... renamed?
The user that did this only has sharp criticisms on his talk page, with other users calling him out for needless changes he's made elsewhere. Do we want this change to stand? I'm kinda of 'eh' about it, but I don't like big random alterations being made either. --Boradis 04:56, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I think we should change it back. Unless someone actually wants to go back through all the DMC pages and redo the wikilinking to here. Any takers? If not, I say we revert. --Boradis 04:58, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I vote for revert too. (Alexlayer 11:17, 21 March 2007 (UTC))


 * Cool, then I'm doing it. --Boradis 05:12, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Mundus and Eva importance
As for now, we have Mundus and Eva as Recurring Characters, but I think they might fit better in the DMC1 section.

About Mundus, I know he appears in the secret ending of DMC3, but that's only a minor cameo appearance that could hardly be more relevant that Trish's appearance as a secret character in DMC2. He wasn't even really shown neither did he speak, and some players might not even know about it and would wonder “Why is he in this section? I’ve only seen him in DMC1”. Of course, his cameo-appearance should be mentioned, but I think he should be placed in the DMC1's section, where he is relevant.

And about Eva, I firmly believe that she should be placed in the DMC1 section. She is only briefly mentioned in DMC3, but there's no image of her like there was in DMC1, where we could even hear her voice (Not only in flashback, but also she talking to Dante during the last fight) and her role was totally relevant since Trish was based on her.

Beside of that, none of these character appeared in DMC2 and it doesn't seem like they'll appear in DMC4.

So... what do you people think? --Alexlayer 01:47, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Uhm... no one is going to give an opinion? If there's no objection, I might eventually move Mundus and Eva to the DM1's character section, but I'd like to know if the rest of the people of the Devil May Cry Task Force agrees. --Alexlayer 03:53, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry, was kinda doing other things for a few days. I pretty much think it could go either way at this point on those two, and if there was no more DMC material coming out I'd be more likely to side with your above thoughts. However, Eva is indeed mentioned several times in DMC3, if not by name. Both Dante and Vergil (as well as Arkham of course) are chasing after their mother's amulet, a phrase which occurs several times. The name Eva doesn't come up, but her actions and influence on the twins is felt if only in the fact that it's her amulet they're fighting over. So that's why I'd classify Eva as recurring. Mundus is also obliquely referred to throughout DMC3, and then makes the appearance at the end. It might be a cameo, but it's still enough to qualify as recurring, at least IMO. I'll go along with the majority on this issue, but them's my thoughts. --Boradis 04:24, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Opening paragraph - should it all be in bold?
I'm thinking it ought to look as below, to keep the style/format used elsewhere.
 * This is a list of fictional characters in the video game and manga series Devil May Cry.

rather than
 * The following is a list of characters that appear in the video game and manga series Devil May Cry, Some of the following biographies have external links leading to pages focusing on that character.

Any thoughts? --Oscarthecat 07:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it should just be normal text. Look at the List of Pokémon characters page. --Boradis 09:38, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * it must be at least bold or italic, it's the first impresion of the page a reader gets, it should be notable since it's just a single line. - 凶 21:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It's notable by being at the top of the page. Look at other character list pages: List of characters from The Simpsons, List of characters in the Harry Potter books, List of Metal Gear series characters, List of characters in Jurassic Park, just to name a few. They all have the paragraph in plain text, and (for some reason) the words "list of characters" in bold -- which seems redundant, since it's already at the top of the page in level-1 header, but whatever. Entire paragraphs in bold or italic defeat the purpose of bold and italic text, which is to have specific words stand out from their surroundings. --Boradis 23:31, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I wonder if we could agree on this lead then, based on Boradis' comments and what other articles are using :-
 * This is a list of characters in the video game and manga series Devil May Cry.
 * Any thoughts? --Oscarthecat 00:36, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, have taken this approach for the lead para. Keeps it consistent with the other "list of character" style articles. --Oscarthecat 10:31, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

"Manga?"
The lead now says it lists characters in the games and the manga, but it just lists those from the games. Is it neccessary to bring over the manga characters, which so far are that version of Enzo, Alice, the woman who is possibly Kalina-Ann, and (maybe) Rabi? Since it seems the manga is at least stalled, I think those few can be left off of this page. However, we may want to consider spots for (important) characters from the anime, which will have a wider audience and make more of an impact on the franchise. So I say, let's drop the manga characters and bring in the anime ones -- when the show starts that is. --Boradis 20:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * How about making a single section for both Anime and Manga characters they aren't that many and the quantity seems good enought for their own section. - 凶 20:42, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I think we should do a section for the manga (Including Enzo and Alice) and one for the anime when it comes out (Considering the trailer, I bet Patty and Morisson will be relevant enough to have their section)


 * Or we could also add expanded sections for these characters in the the articles of the anime and manga. I think there were minor characters in DMC manga that are worth mentioning, like the little twins Dante gave a coin, they somehow represent the Dante's situation with his brother. --Alexlayer 22:42, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Anime-only character section
I'm not sure we need this just yet, and I've got three problems with the section. First off, all we know about these two is a name and a face. Secondly, we don't even know if those two characters are what they appear to be yet -- there's a good chance one or both of them is a demon. Thirdly, given that so little has been made public, I don't think they qualify as notable yet. The show starts in a month, and someone will fansub it pretty soon after they air. We'll know more then. Should we just wait? --Boradis 20:31, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I second that, if we will another section it should be Manga and Anime character not just Anime I will add the manga ones now, I won't delete the Anime ones but neither I will revert an edit that takes them out. 凶  22:46, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd suggest that the manga-only characters stay on the manga page, where they're most relevent. I'm starting to think the series got cancelled, and even if not there's no reason to think they'll ever be mentioned again. That is, with the exception of Enzo, who's status as a canon character is really, really vague. If he shows up in the show, he'd be my first choice for giving a listing here as well. He is after all a recurring character. But if no one else objects within a day or so, I think I'll pull the anime/manga characters from here, then resurrect at least their screenshots (if properly sourced) for the anime page after the debut. --Boradis 01:26, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the article falls short of the GA criteria
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to review this article as not meeting the GA criteria at this time. A lot of work has been done, and it's looking good, but it still needs more work.


 * Criterion 1 states that a good article must be reasonably well written and in compliance with the six major aspects of the manual of style: lead sections, layout, jargon, words to avoid, fiction, and list incorporation. The article's prose is generally clear and the grammar is OK. However, the article does not comply with the selected manual of style guidelines (note that a FA must comply with all manual of style guidelines, making this one of the major differences between the two; however, GAs must still comply with these six): the lead section is only one sentence, and there could be a little more work done to make the article in a more out of universe perspective (more on that below).


 * Criterion 2 requires factually accurate and verifiable information. References are provided where appropriate, and all are at least somewhat reliable (IMDB is one of those "on the fence" sources, but generally acceptable).


 * Criterion 3 requires that all articles be broad in their coverage. With regard to this article, I do not see sections on character creation or cultural impact, which is important. I recommend reading devil may cry reviews and looking for how the characters were received, and finding interviews for character information.


 * Criterion 4 states that articles should be neutral. No major problems here.


 * I don't count criterion 5 unless there's an edit war.


 * The article has fair use ratonale and provides sources, so it meets criterion 6.

It's getting close, but it needs a copy-edit, an expanded lead section, and information on character creation and cultural impact (at least what you can find; if more information cannot be found, then contact me and I'll review it as meeting the GA criteria). Nothing big; just enough to meet the GA criteria, which is considerably weaker than the FA criteria, so there should be no issues. &mdash; Deckiller 01:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Got it, will look for information and work with them first thing tomorow morning, thanks for reviewing. - 凶 01:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * All I can found are mentions of how "cool" Dante and "Vergil" are nothing regarding any of the other characters, I found two lists listing Dante as one of the top 'cool' and 'badass' characters, maybe this and a mention of how Cobra influenced Dante and some elements of that interview can make a section but it won't be very lenghty. -- 凶 00:19, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * And I would think that that type of Dante-specific information would more rightfully belong on the character's page. As for the lead, I'd like to get a solid example to emulate. Are there any "List of characters in..." articles that are on the GA list? I can't seem to find any. --Boradis 05:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * No, but we do have a former character list that's a FA: Characters of Final Fantasy VIII. &mdash; Deckiller 05:12, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * So we leave the character influence part out right?; that isn't the featured version is it? I mean the prose seems unusual for example this line: "Squall Leonhart, a loner who keeps his focus on duty and avoids letting himself care for others to avoid vulnerability;" the tone seems kind of unserious and somewhat fancrufty not what you expect of a FA. - 凶 05:20, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Putting aside the downright insult, do not leave character influence out. In the case of the lead, that was more or less paraphrased from the character summaries in the instruction manual (not the game script). Take a look at the citation at the end of that long sentence. In that case, it's fine to summarize a character in that manner. That article is in no way, shape or form anywhere close to fancruft or lacking an "unserious tone". On the contrary; it is generally extremely terse, and character generalizations are all about the sources used. &mdash; Deckiller 05:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Excuse me if it sounded like an insult, I was just trown off by the unusual tone (mostly Zell's hotdog line), while I do have the game I lost the manual years ago, sorry about not noticing the ref; as a now irrelevant clarifing note in my last edit I meant if this was the featured version of the lead not the article cause it's obvious it has been edited a lot since march. - 凶 05:58, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, it's hardly been edited since reaching FA status (most of those are reverts). &mdash; Deckiller 06:23, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok thanks for clarifing that, sorry about sounding rude. -- 凶  06:29, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It's ok. &mdash; Deckiller 06:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Regarding the "Character conception and influence" section. Am I alone in thinking that this little section, which is only about one character (Dante), seems kind of orphaned all by its lonesome at the bottom of the page? As I stated above, that info more properly goes on Dante's own page. The section here does not comment on the character conceptions and influence of the others because, frankly, nothing has been said about them. The only character who's personality has been shown to be more than "here's a cool enemy for Dante" has been Dante himself. I wish there were more material to flesh out all the characters, some underlying themes discussed in interviews, but there just isn't. So having a separate section at the bottom to talk about the guy listed at the very top (who's already got his own page) feels like padding, like the information from there is being stretched over here to make it look like there's more to read here than there there actually is. It's just a character list, after all. We list 'em, and give the notable ones their own pages, and that's that. --Boradis 06:13, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Before I pass, a couple things:
 * The lead is still too short; another paragraph summarizing, say, the recurring characters and the character designer will help.
 * Sparda and Vergil should probably be merged into this article, leaving only the main character the series with his own article. This is especially relevant since the article covers all characters in the series.
 * Have you combed the reviews to find what they thought of the characters and their designs? &mdash; Deckiller 23:57, 22 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately yeah I combed the reviews, there are no direct allusions to characters other than Dante, Vergil is quoted as being a stronger character than his brother but no direct reception of him or his personality, the enemies are described as grotesque and the bosses as well worked but no allusions to them directly. The character designer? a direct description on the guy and his work here and in other games? I have suggested a merger of those two for some time now, right after I tried to expand and reference their articles and noticed that after a clean-up they will be practically stub like in length, I will merge them when Boradis logs in, thanks for commenting. -- 凶 00:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Passed. &mdash; Deckiller 02:33, 23 April 2007 (UTC)