Talk:Characters of the Tekken series/Archive 2

Notability
Due to appearances in other non-Tekken media, I would propose that Paul, Marshall Law, Anna, and Yoshimitsu should all at least be considered as candidates for having a page of their own. - 69.204.31.45 (talk) 02:41, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * On Wikipedia, reception (and sources for them) indicates notability for video game characters, not their number of appearances. For example, just recently I split Ling Xiaoyu into her own article because she already had a good amount of reception here and then I added even more. Paul, Law, Yoshimitsu and Anna all had their own article at one point, but they were merged into here, since those articles had little to no reception. I have actually been thinking about looking for more reception for Yoshimitsu and restoring his article though. I haven't looked too much yet though. Kokoro20 (talk) 15:58, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I serve as staff on a few Wikia wikis, so I know not to argue against set in stone policy, but it just seems asinine to me to have it so that a character with little importance in relation to the series itself (looking at you, Christie Montiero and Lili) get pages based more or less on the fact that they get reception or popularity due to the fact they're "hot gaming chicks", rather than characters like Paul and Yoshimitsu, who have had a far greater impact within the games themselves. I suppose I just find it odd that notability is defined by how a character is perceived in the media rather than actually how notable the character is within the context of their game. - 69.204.31.45 (talk) 08:02, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, they just need to have enough coverage outside the Tekken series from various sources and reception is the easiest way for that. This is regardless of how much impact a character has within the games themselves. But if that can be done for Paul and Yoshimitsu, then they can get their own articles too. Personally though, I don't agree with these notability rules either and think all characters should just get their own articles, rather than being cluttered into a big character list article. But that's the way things are, unfortunately. Kokoro20 (talk) 14:11, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Proposal to make a list of which characters were in which game(s)
I was thinking of adding a list before all the Character bios, that has each game as the column headings and each character as the row headings, with checkmarks in each box to whether they were in that column's game or not. If you go to the Smash Bros Series Playable Characters page, you can see what I'm talking about: Gheta 20:22, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Where the column with the characters from SFxT?
Where the column with the characters from SFxT? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Tekken_characters&diff=530150857&oldid=530100164

I took seriously. After all, not SFxT Merc game, though from Capcom, but with the characters from Tekken

--TerryBogard (talk) 06:33, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Some reception for Jack
At Portal talk: Fictional characters. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 16:10, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Jack (Tekken) and Julia Chang restored, too
But I only really worked on Julia, in Jack's case even the reception is to be writen (there are sources, it's up to you to write it now). --194.145.185.229 (talk) 16:27, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Why to split the characters (and why I actually do it for a long time)
Obviously - to make them more articles and make this article less of a mess it is. During the recent months, me, Kokoro and some others already split a plenty of articles from the fighting characters lists, such as List of Mortal Kombat characters, List of Street Fighter characters, List of Soul characters, etc.

And that's including even this article (split articles since last year: Alisa Bosconovitch, Anna Williams (Tekken), Christie Monteiro, Lars Alexandersson, Lili (Tekken), Ling Xiaoyu, Yoshimitsu (Namco) - most of them were either initiated (Anna) or sustantionally helped (especially Lili and Yoshi) by me, as you can see in the edit history), and nobody opposed it (again: it's going on for many months), so I just don't understand why would it be suddenly any sort of an issue now.

Or more precisily: I don't understand why all of sudden are people now keen to destroy my edits, and why do I have to "discuss" them with anyone when there has been no discussion about it! Which is just ridiculous, and if you don't know why see WP:BOLD.

Btw, recently I did a LOT of general work on this article (List of Tekken characters) by just cleaning it up (practically a rewrite, really). I see some suddenly people assuming ownership of it nobody appreciates it or me at all, nevertheless. How sad.

Bottom line: Most of the video game characters were merged due to the mass merges during 2008-2009 (with no individual discussions for each of them, it was a huge sweeping action) because they had no reception sections (in effect failing WP:N by not proving it) and no references/reliable sources (thus failing WP:V and WP:RS). And rightly so. But that's exactly what I'm fixing now. Oh, and I'm actually redirecting the articles that still do fail Wikipedia stadards. For example, just yesterday I redirected Bob (Tekken). but only to one of you come after me this (!!!) - didn't I say what you guys now do is "just ridiculous"? Now you can see it most clearly in a possibly best (worst) example.

So please start being constructive and show good faith (like you're supposed to do), and participate, instead of obstructing me on every step for no good reason (because when I create good articles AND when I revert the bad articles, no matter what I do, everything and all is wrong according to you, and that is, once again, just ridiculous). --194.145.185.229 (talk) 13:45, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and there was also an earlier discussion right here, recently, (that I didn't even taken part in). "Undiscussed" - what? And what you can do constructive, instead of obstructing me for no reason: go and find sources to verify all the tags that I posted through this article, as well as more sources in general. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 14:10, 29 February 2012 (UTC)


 * We don't have any consensus for the de-merging process of these pages. As such, I am initiating a discussion at WT:VG to see if others can get involved. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 15:01, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Answer: Wrong, the Wikipedia users reached the consenus for splitting this list in the section above, but only those characters who will have the reception section per notability issues (and that's why Mokujin was reverted by Kokoro, and Bob was reverted by me). So why didn't you say a word to oppose it back then, or even since then (which was several months ago)? In fact, you didn't even initiate another discussion (I did), nor did you or anyone else comment on my announcement of the new splits above. There was no new discussion of any kind until I myself started this one right here, but only after the last one ended on December 15, 2011. And that's the facts. So hold your reverts until the new consensus is reached, and in the meantime adhere to the last one. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 17:10, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That's not how it works. Regardless of the past, there's clearly opposition to/no consensus to demerge now, and that what matters. Sergecross73   msg me   17:41, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It's hard to follow everything the IP is saying, because every other sentence seems to veer off about what an injustice or how ridiculous something or other is, but I don't support de-merging. The unmerged articles are in terrible shape and have minimal sources/reception. They ought to be expanded/worked on in the "List of" article, or in a sandbox or something before standing on their own. Sergecross73   msg me   15:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Answer: Try reading again.

And as for this list, it is a mess, even after my cleanups (very few sources, for one). To paraphrase you, all of this lists' characters are "in terrible shape and have minimal sources/reception" (and even this very little reception was provided by me) - for many years (now just somewhat less than before, thanks to me - even the citation tags were placed by me, previously it was just 100 kB of crap with only 13 sources as compared 12 sources in my still very incomplete Julia article of just 8 kB) - are you still sure about the superior quality of a list article? What I'm doing here is a vast improvement, so please join up and contribute constructive edits as well as ideas. --194.145.185.229 (talk) 17:11, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I see you constantly make comments instructing others to "be constructive". You do realize that just because we don't see eye to eye about making separate articles, doesn't make our edits unconstructive. "Contribute constructive edits" is something more appropriate to say some a vandal, not someone who is discussing changes on a talk page or a Wiki-project, FYI... Sergecross73   msg me   17:41, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Answer: No, you got it wrong. There's no consensus to merge. When I de-merged, there was a consensus for de-merging.

Also, as I said, I and Kokoro did it with a number of other articles over the last several months, why was there no opposition to it all the time? Why did everyone here suddenly wake up now, selectively applying the retroactive supposed "lack of consensus" only to Julia and Jack, and before I or eanyone else even had any chance to develop these articles like we did with the others (including: Lili (Tekken), Anna Williams (Tekken), Yoshimitsu (Namco), Ling Xiaoyu)?

And yes, it makes your edits unconstructive. Because you destroyed all my work, including on reception and citations (13 of them for Julia alone, as compared to only 17 for the entire huge list right now), instead of at least merging it to the list. So how could these edits be called "constructive"? --194.145.185.229 (talk) 10:37, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You're arguing things that don't ultimately matter; it doesn't matter why people didn't speak up before, it's matters that they're speaking up now. consensus can change, you need to worry about your current argument. Feel free to contact the editors who participated in this past discussion though if you want. Sergecross73   msg me   13:56, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


 * So wait until it changes, show me your arguments to convince me, and in the mantime revert your undiscussed reverts that completely removed quite a lot of well sourced content (much better sourced, and written, than the complete crap that is this list). --194.145.185.229 (talk) 17:39, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Once again, there is no deadline and no, you can not put pressure on other users to do your bidding by forcing them to demerge the articles (that is considered harassment). We must finish the relevant discussions before we can demerge the articles. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:01, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Another suggestion
Hi, just wanted to suggest another character which I think may possibly have enough real world impact/reception to warrant their own page - Jun Kazama. In an official vote for which characters players want to appear in Tekken x Street Fighter, Jun came 2nd. (heres a possible link to use as a reference: ( https://fb.namcobandaigames.com/fbtekken/statistics_user.php?sid=78423 )

Also, this vote shows her currently as the 14th most popular character ( http://www.quibblo.com/quiz/dsWEOxU/Favorite-Tekken-Character ) Of course, there's the fact that Harada himself posted on a blog page saying that if enough people followed him on twitter and requested her return, he'd consider it, which shows Namco were aware fans wanted her back - he even mentions getting numerous requests. This then happened, showing popularity and that fans are vocal about wanting her back to the series, showing she has 'real world impact'. ( http://tekkennation.com/junkazama_harada.htm )

The director of the Street Fighter series said he wants Jun to return. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw_x5QvGsLc )

In an online review of Tekken 2, the writer of this article calls her "innocent yet badass" ( http://www.fightersgeneration.com/games/tekken2.html )

She is seen in the Tekken movie, as well as Tekken the Motion Picture and was in the Tekken Forever comic book. Outside of the series, she is referenced and samples of her in-game attack voiceover are used in the song Confessions of a Tekken Tag Addict by Bliphop.com.

The author of this article calls her "one of the most influential women in the world of Tekken" ( http://www.gossipgamers.com/jun-kazama-back-for-tekken-7/ )

This online reviewer and blogger said it's to her "never ending glee" that Jun is returning in TTT2. ( http://sarahtherebel.com/2012/06/19/tekken-tag-2-demo-review/ )

This poll indicates she's more popular with Tekken fans than Asuka Kazama. ( http://tekkennation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1237&start=100)

She was featured as an action figure based on her appearance in TTT ( http://tekken.wikia.com/wiki/File:Jun_Kazama_and_Kazuya_Mishima_-_Action_Figures.jpg) and as a plush toy, based on her appearance in Tekken 2 ( http://www.amazon.com/Tekken-Plush-Figure-Part-Kazama/dp/B002LHADLG )

Harada has confirmed she (along with Kazuya) will again be featured as an action figure, based on her appearance in TTT2 ( https://twitter.com/Harada_TEKKEN/status/222551229098762241 ) Given the huge character roster, her selection suggests popularity and marketablility, while providing merchandise to be sold in the real world.

Some of these links may not be the best but they were just to give at least a rough backing to what I was suggesting and a basis for making references if need be, Thanks. --KazamaFan (talk) 00:30, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Support - Agree with the concerns by KazamaFan to demerge Jun Kazama into its own article, but forums and fan sites are not usually allowed as reliable sources. We should also add quotes from the games as sources. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 17:30, 22 July 2012 (UTC)


 * It seems her character's section now has a fair amount in regards to the likes of reception, merchandise and usage. How much usually warrants a demerge into its own article? KazamaFan (talk) 23:41, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, as mentioned, some of those sources aren't even reliable, such as that Angelfire citation in the article. And I don't think Fighter's Generation is considered reliable either. I'm not exactly sure how much warrants a demerge. I would say that at least four pieces of reception would be okay. Kokoro20 (talk) 15:58, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree those ones may be questionable but if that's the case, perhaps even discounting them there might be enough that definitely is reliable; such as the official poll by Namco, the quote from Gamespot, the comments by the Street Fighter Director, the online character usage ranking, the comments made by the series Director acknowledging the high number of fan requests and the fact that demand led to her return. Like you said, I'm not sure how much is really required though or who makes the final judgement. KazamaFan (talk) 20:14, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, I bet she'll get more reception from reviews once Tekken Tag Tournament 2 comes out, seeing as she makes a return in the game and is the penultimate boss. I can look myself a bit for reception for her though. Kokoro20 (talk) 16:23, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

You can start expanding here. Also, Unknown. (Junka was my main in Tekken 2.) --Niemti (talk) 20:21, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Angelfire is just a hosting service; "GameSpot" has a capital S is not italicized; "director" has a minor d. --Niemti (talk) 20:32, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it's looking better already. KazamaFan (talk) 21:02, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Also, Ono is Street Fighter producer, not director. --Niemti (talk) 00:22, 1 August 2012 (UTC)


 * There's a lot of reputable stuff in there now, which is great; more so than some individual pages have in-fact. What's the next step in terms of a decision if the section is de-merged to its own page or not? KazamaFan (talk) 15:49, 7 August 2012 (UTC)


 * This discusion seems to have died out. Taking an objective view of the article, I cannot see why Michelle Change and Jun Kazama should be split out and not: Kuma, Kunimutsu, Lee Chaolan, Lei Wulong and Asuka Kazama. Given that, I would like to remove the tags on the basis of no concensus at this time. Op47 (talk) 18:52, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Because: Lei and Kunimitsu have very few sources (0 is in Lei's case) and no estabilished independent notability at all. --Niemti (talk) 13:12, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Sergei Dragunov's Own Wiki page?
We should give Sergei Dragunov his own Wiki Page I think coz he's awesome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DevilFTW (talk • contribs) 19:02, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

First appearance of Tetsujin
Tetsujin first appeared in T3, not TTT, as described in this edit. The edit was reverted without comment. A Google search for "tekken 3 tetsujin" lists at least two YouTube videos featuring Tetsujin in T3. I have played as Tetsujin in T3 many times. What is the reason for reverting this edit? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.59.49.197 (talk) 02:23, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

^This is inaccurate. The videos that you saw were edits from a renowned 'hacker' szemigi, who uses TPI Viewer to edit the files. Your statement about playing as Tetsujin likely is a falsity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.156.81.96 (talk) 12:05, 22 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, Tetsujin was just a skin mod for Tekken 3 I made, but it wasn't downloadable as PPF file and the video about him was deleted by me either. DSZ (talk) 00:05, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Jollibee
Please, remove Jollibee. The only sources claiming it will be added are just quoting a tweet in which Harada answers "Jollibeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! I'll consider" to a fan who asks "Harada-san, love your work on Namco's fighting games! Hope you can add Filipino characters". 1. Tekken 7 had not been announced 2. "Jollibee" sounds like an exclamation of something he likes about the Philippines 3. He did not even mention the mascot 4. He said "I'll consider" so he did NOT confirm it. The only certain thing he said is that he would consider adding a Filipino character. Everything else is conjecture made by fans. I may be wrong, but I think (and I'm sure about this) that Wikipedia should say just certain facts and not speculation. 87.5.24.174 (talk) 23:26, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Edit warring
Hi, and , thank you for your contributions to the article. However, as an uninvolved party, I need to remind all of you that you are currently engaging in an edit war. Please engage in discussion to resolve differences in what should be included in the article instead of trying to outdo the other through edits. Persistent edit warring will be reported to WP:AN/EW, no matter your reasons. Regards, Optakeover  (Talk)  17:09, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I am aware of this; I have already issued an edit-warring warning to Kerberos following his most recent edits, though I regret that I failed to do so one edit prior before falling into the same trap myself. Regardless, I stand by my revisions in spirit, as the additions Kerberos is attempting to be made are either unsourced or poorly-sourced, and are based squarely in the realm of rumor. Even the passages in question say things like "However, it is unknown whether it is from a fan or whether he will be a new character for Tekken 7" and "He came up to now not in the arcade version, but maybe he will also update as character or as Gon he may come in the console versions." Wikipedia is not a place for rumors and speculation; we shouldn't be adding information on "maybe"s and "might"s. Heck, the Talk Page section right above this one outlines why Jollibee shouldn't be on the page quite well. Furthermore, I did some research, and I can't find anything about this Luke character either, which he even acknowledges in saying "Luke is hard to find Respectively you can probably find them no more." If information on this character can't be found, how do we know that Kerberos isn't making the whole thing up? I stand by the decision I made, though not by my violating the rules in the process, and will continue to prevent the information from being added if more substantial evidence is not brought forward. -- 68.37.227.226 (talk) 17:31, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Raven
I've redirected Raven back to this article, because he is simply not notable enough to warrant an individual entry. The article was poorly sourced and consisted mainly of fancruft that is more suited for a Tekken wiki, while the reception section contained no viable third-party citations. There's more content online about Master Raven than Raven himself. sixty nine  • speak up •  02:54, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

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Kid Kazuya
Is it okay if I include Kid Kazuya in the character table as well? After all, he is also a playable character, even if it was only playable in story mode. TheKerberos01, 18:13, 21 October 2018 (UTC)


 * @TheKerberos01 I don't think it's a right thing to do because there are also two other characters: Young Heihachi and Ascended Heihachi that are also playable in the Story mode. 103.120.117.110 (talk) 07:02, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I would recommend simply mentioning Kid Kazuya as part of Kazuya's article. QuicoleJR (talk) 11:19, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:22, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Leroy-smith.jpg

Leo's voice actor
Hello. I think I've found Leo's voice actor: his name is Philipp Zieschang and this is his page. Among all the videogames he dubbed, Tekken appears. You can even hear an audio sample, which is the same voice of Leo. I think it should be put in the Leo's section. Daniele199 (talk) 13:57, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

26 footnotes?!
There are currently 26 different footnotes to the table, sometimes 4 are used in combination. Nearly all of them amount to trivia.

Basically, a character is either in a game, or he isn't. He's either available from the start, unlockable, or a paid extrx. THAT'S IT. we don't need an endless stream saying what mode he was in.

I will be deleting nearly all of these in the coming days. 80.44.56.202 (talk) 22:21, 27 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Well I guess you're new to this site right? Because the 26 notes has been around for about 2 years or more and no one has bothered it yet. And yes, some are unnecessary or sort of duplicates, but only because the comparison table was only added a few days ago and therefore some are still duplicated, both from the comparison table and from the notes. But now I've revised everything! There are only 9 notes left. --TheKerberos01 (talk) 17:23, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Gender
Well I had an argument with Unnamed anon (talk) that gender should stay because there are also nationalities included for the characters, so it feels very weird, and also it's just in the form of colours so it won't take that much space. Share your opinions about it. 103.120.117.94 (talk) 20:09, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * There are only two genders aside from Leo and some non-playable robot, they are completely irrelevant and it looks terrible. Unnamed anon (talk) 21:10, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * If gender is irrelevant then explain how nationalities are relevant, because this explain a lot about the character. The gender, it give an idea of how the character looks and act, and if you look for the Chun-Li on Wikipedia there are lots of mentioned things about the female characters that she inspires them, and she gets the title of the first female fighting game character, and there are also a whole article about gender represention in video games, here's the link. There are a lot of people who are interested in female characters rather than their nationalities. 103.120.117.94 (talk) 01:34, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay there are also other articles that use this of kind design for gender. Here are the 5 links ( link 1, link 2, link 3, link 4 and link 5) now I think we should wait for other people/editors and what are their opinions about it. 103.120.117.94 (talk) 01:46, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It's fucking nonsense. Get rid of it.80.44.56.202 (talk) 20:12, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Tekken X Street Fighter
I think we should add Tekken X Street Fighter in other games section, although the game was cancelled but it still has two characters confirmed from Tekken series. Devil Jin and Jin Kazama. 103.120.117.110 (talk) 05:52, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Kuma (Tekken) and Hwoarang into List of Tekken characters
Per the consensus at Articles for deletion/Kuma and Panda and Articles for deletion/Hwoarang. Given the need to move before merging, this note could not be done via the script. I leave it to editors to determine the volume that should be merged. Star  Mississippi  16:23, 14 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi IP 103.120.117.110. Just so you know for the future, it's not good practice to edit someone's comment. I don't mind it in this instance, but it could confuse people who think I proposed a merger where it was a different editor (courtesy ) who closed the latter discussion  Star   Mississippi  17:50, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry for that but Hwoarang article was also included. 103.120.117.110 (talk) 17:53, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries. That article has the templates, which Kuma didn't by virtue of the close. That's why it had to be handled differently than Eddie's close. Star   Mississippi  18:02, 14 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Support Since the AfD got consensus, it would be wrong not to merge. QuicoleJR (talk) 11:18, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Why would you vote? He just wants to vent out to an interested user who would like to perform the merge. GlatorNator  (ᴛ) 11:24, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay so I have merged both articles you can check if I have made a mistake during merging this.Thank you. 103.120.117.110 (talk) 12:27, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Nationalities in tables
Is it really necessary to have the characters' nationalities in every game-appearance table? Not only is it excess clutter, but also redundant as they're already mentioned in each character section. sixty nine  • whaddya want? •  08:26, 20 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Nationalities are important and representation of the character and If we remove nationalities then what are they representing.Their name? Guezzor (talk) 08:51, 20 April 2023 (UTC)