Talk:Charioteer (tank)

Charioteer was a tank, not a Tank Destroyer
This probably needs to be corrected, the Charioteer was a Tank, not a Tank Destroyer. I can edit the text but I've no idea on how to rename a page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.102.137.153 (talk) 22:40, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

That was my comment from a couple of years ago. Today I've made some major changes to the article and moved the page from Charioteer Tank Destroyer to Charioteer Tank. Note there are a couple of sources of confusion on the tank's designation - the Charioteer replaced (among other things) the M10 tank destroyer in British use after they had transferred to the RAC. Several computer games have also implemented the Charioteer as a TD. Looking at original documentation I can find no reference to it's use as a tank destroyer, and the article from Wheels and Tracks written by an authoritative source (David Fletcher of The Tank Museum) and reviewed by another authoritative expert (Bart Vanderveen, editor of Wheels and Tracks) highlights this as a common error, hence I think it's a justified move.Lkchild (talk) 21:07, 2 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Charioteer started out as a self-propelled anti-tank gun intended for the Territorial Army as a supplement to the Centurions of the Regular Army. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.53.180 (talk) 13:00, 1 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Charioteer was intended as a stop-gap vehicle in order to get a 20 pdr-armed vehicle into the hands of the Territorial Army (TA) at a time when all 20 pdr Centurion production was of necessity going to the Regular Army, the 2-man turret and lighter armour of Charioteer being considered acceptable as any engagements against enemy tanks by Charioteer was likely to be at considerable range, closer range engagements being handled by the Regular Army's Centurions which had the crew protection to do so. This is possibly why although classed as a 'Tank' the Charioteer was sometimes referred-to as a 'tank destroyer' which is expressly and literally what it was intended to do.


 * At the time the TA armoured regiments were equipped with mixture of wartime Comet and Cromwell tanks who's firepower was considerably inferior to the 20 pdr Centurion and would have been of little use against massed attacks by the vehicles of any likely future enemy, viz. the T-34 and T-54/T-55. The considerably longer engagement ranges made possible by the 20 pdr made the relative lack of armour protection of the Charioteer over the Centurion less important than if it were to be used tactically as a regular gun tank. It was therefore intended as a temporary 'long stop', to halt any advancing enemy tanks at long range, the Centurions then handling the close-in fighting. This role would subsequently be taken over by Conqueror when sufficient vehicles became available.


 * The immediate post-war tactical doctrine of the armoured regiments based in the-then West Germany being based on experience fighting in WW II in North-Western Europe against such well-armed vehicles as the Tiger I and Tiger II used defensively, the BAOR being a purely defensive army, despite what some fantasists liked to believe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.145.115.81 (talk) 09:06, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Medium Tank, Charioteer
I've not come across a reference designating it a medium tank, and it sounds odd (British tanks of the time seem to be Cruiser, Infantry, Universal, or just plain "tank" while Medium describes American tanks). Has anyone got a source on this as a formal designation?Lkchild (talk) 21:07, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I found it myself - changed title to "TK., MED. GUN, CHARIOTEER, MK 6, 7, 7W, 8" in Amendment 2 of the provisional user handbook October 1956. Lkchild (talk) 23:49, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Chieftain (tank) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 03:46, 25 March 2023 (UTC)