Talk:Charlene Robinson/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 17:16, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

G'day. I've seen this on Good Article Nominations page for some time. Now, I've got an awful confession to make to the community - I did watch Neighbours most lunchtimes or evenings in the mid to late 1980s in an attempt to dodge homework and / or exam revision. It was extremely popular and talked about at school all the time (though often in disparaging terms, granted). As far as characters go, this is the big one. I haven't done a soap character GA review before, so I'll be taking inspiration from existing GAs such as Paul Robinson and Plain Jain Superbrain, plus other more established characters elsewhere such as Ken Barlow to see what is required.

My initial thoughts are is that the article is quite complete, and is an obvious spinout candidate from the main Kylie article (whose post-Neighbours career is nothing short of incredible). Most of the sources look acceptable from an initial glance, though I'd avoid tabloid stuff like the Daily Mirror. The article might be a bit lop-sided towards plot details, though to be fair some of it is sourced back to production and character development ideas, putting the Scott-Charlene relationship at the centrepiece of the show. I haven't seen any facts that leap out as contradicting with my personal memory, although I was expecting a mention of Angry Anderson who sang the song during that wedding episode.

Specific comments will follow. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  17:16, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Lead

 * Might be worth explaining who Jan Russ is? ✅
 * "Charlene was portrayed as feisty, quick tempered, outspoken and a tomboy." - suggest "Charlene was portrayed as a feisty, quick tempered and outspoken tomboy" ✅
 * I think a number of "Charlene"s in the second paragraph can be simplified as "her" ✅
 * ""Episode 523", which was broadcast on 1 July 1987" - perhaps "first broadcast" would be better, as countries outside Australia didn't see it until later ✅
 * "concentrate on her burgeoning music career" - I'd suggest removing "burgeoning", I think her career was pretty successful as of early 1988, though it did plateau a bit later before increasing again ✅
 * "on 26 July 1988" - don't need the "1988" as we already know which year from earlier in the sentence ✅
 * "calling her inspirational, beloved and one of the most popular Neighbours characters" - I'm not sure about this, which critics said it? Probably best to just say "Critical reaction to the character has been positive" and leave it at that. (Although the body, under "Critical reception", says reception has "mostly" been positive. ✅

Creation and casting

 * "After Neighbours moved to Network Ten" - worth briefly mentioning it was previously on Seven before being dropped? ✅
 * The Daily Mirror quotation from Jan Russ is problematic. We don't generally trust the Mirror to be an acceptable source, so can we be absolutely sure that Russ really did think Kylie was "shy as a mouse" when she joined?
 * The Mirror does appear to be the only place that quote is available. I looked through various archives and can't find it anywhere else. If it's going to prevent the article from becoming a GA I'll remove it, and maybe try to find something else from Russ.
 * Well it's not a source I would prefer to use, but that doesn't mean it can't be totally excluded. If it is a specific quotation in popular culture that the tabloids are likely to focus on, then that instance I think it could be defended if it cannot be sourced anywhere else. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  20:38, 29 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Do we know why Minogue's contract was only a week, and why it was extended (presumably in the latter case due to immediate popularity)?
 * I haven't found any further details on this. Like you, I suspect it was due to her popularity. I will have another look through the books though just in case there is something I've missed. - JuneGloom    Talk  19:42, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Backstory and characterisation

 * "When she was a teenager, Charlene drank alcohol, fell pregnant to her first boyfriend and had an abortion" - okay, this is a fictional character, so WP:BLP doesn't apply, but is it essential to mention all these things here up front?

Relationship with Scott Robinson

 * "Minogue ended up connecting with Donovan for real during the take" - what do you mean by "connecting with"? Changed. ✅
 * "Scott and Charlene had problems during their first 12 months together and they broke up several times." - this sentence would probably fit better at the start of the following paragraph. ✅
 * "her husband gave her a friendship ring, Scott went out and bought a friendship ring" - can we reword one of these "friendship ring"s? ✅
 * "Donovan commented that Scott loved Charlene and seeing her in danger" - I understand what you mean but this could be mis-interpreted as "Scott loved seeing Charlene in danger", which is obviously not the case! This could do with being reworded ✅
 * "The actor" - presumably this means Jason Donovan, "Donovan" would be better to be consistent with the rest of the article ✅
 * "she "becomes very excited" about the idea of getting married" - shouldn't that be "became very excited"? ✅


 * The Sunday Age source states the church in Doncaster where Scott and Charlene's marriage took place later became a minor tourist attraction - would that be worth working into the article somewhere?
 * I think it might work in the reception section, I'll try it there first. - JuneGloom    Talk  19:50, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Marital problems

 * "Scott was the first to cheat when he kissed Jane Harris" - now I do remember this, it was a very gradual thing but I can remember watching Charlene going absolutely ballistic, smashing a painting and yelling her head off. Quite scary really.
 * I seem to recall Charlene's Mini Clubman was called "Willy" (as in "Willy ever go, or won't he")

Storylines

 * This section seems to duplicate most of the "Development" section above. I don't mind whether you want to mix the general plotline with the decisions to write storylines and character development, or whether to keep the plot and rationale behind it separate entities, but either way that needs to be resolved.
 * I was hugely tempted to do away with this section altogether. Since I've got my books out, I'll see if I can source some of her other storylines and maybe mention them in development instead. - JuneGloom    Talk  21:20, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I've removed the storylines section, replacing it with a new section in Development. - JuneGloom    Talk  03:09, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Reception

 * "The following year" - this links back to the "1987 Logie Awards", which I think it a mistake ✅
 * "She also won the Most Popular Personality On Victorian Television and Most Popular Actress awards" - what makes these awards important (particularly compared to Logie Awards)?
 * Sorry, they are Logie awards. Clarified.


 * "In 1989, Minogue's final year on Neighbours" - we've been told earlier her final year was 1988 ✅
 * "A writer for the BBC's official Neighbours website" - just "The BBC's official Neighbours website" will do ✅
 * Charlene most memorable moment was "her wedding to Scott and punching Scott in the face during their first meeting." - that's two (rather polarising) moments! ✅
 * "A reporter for the Belfast Telegraph" - as before, just "The Belfast Telegraph" will do here. (This "A journalist for 'x', a writer for 'y' problem appears in several other places) ✅
 * The Belfast Telegraph source in question is a dead link
 * Unfortunately, this hasn't been archived, so I've removed it.


 * "While a journalist for The Independent said Minogue's" - this sentence doesn't have a finite verb, it can probably simply join onto the preceeding one ✅
 * "A reporter for BBC News noted that Charlene was one of Neighbours' most popular characters." - the report puts the character in a positive light, but it does not explicitly say it was one of the most popular
 * It says she became one of the most popular characters, so I've updated that. - JuneGloom    Talk  21:58, 29 November 2014 (UTC)


 * "Hilary Kingsley (Soap Box)" - what does this mean? ✅

Images

 * The infobox image could do with a caption explaining its relevance to the article. ✅
 * I wonder if we could find a picture of the church used for Scott and Charlene's wedding? There tends to be a proliferation of free images for public buildings on Commons, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's one floating around that could be added to the article.
 * There is a picture, but it's not great - File:Anglican church at Doncaster1.jpg. I could put it in the reception section, where I've put the church info. What do you think? - JuneGloom    Talk  22:13, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, let's go with that, with a caption explaining briefly how it relates to the character and its minor tourist attraction status. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  10:11, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Summary

 * I can't think of anything else to add for the moment. I think all of the above issues look resolvable within a week, so I'll put the review on hold now, pending improvements. I see you're on vacation, so I'm happy to wait for longer to get things resolved - there's no rush from my end. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  17:34, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, thank you for the review. I promise I'll start addressing the points raised soon. I'm on holiday at the moment until Tuesday, so I should be able to start either that evening or Wednesday. - JuneGloom    Talk  22:40, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
 * - What's the status at the moment? <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  11:12, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Apologies. I got distracted by the news that Neighbours were bringing back some former cast members for the 30th anniversary next year - including Des Clarke, whose article was seriously lacking development info. I've worked through the majority of the points you raised this evening. - JuneGloom    Talk  21:59, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, Des - because the UK were about 18 months behind Australia, we knew that Daphne was going to get killed off for about a year before it happened (largely because I think Elaine Smith came over to the UK and appeared on prime time talk shows some time after she left) so when it happened, nobody batted an eyelid ... anyway, coming back to this article, the only outstanding issue is the church picture. There is the question I raised about some of the backstory stuff, but having read a few more Neighbours GAs, I think I'm comfortable in saying that a typical reader will expect such over-the-top things to happen in soaps, so it doesn't really appear out of the ordinary. I've taken care of the church picture myself, so I'm now happy to pass the review as I believe the article now meets the GA criteria. Well done. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  15:18, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for all your help and for passing the article! - JuneGloom    Talk  16:40, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
 * No problems - was interesting to uncover a patch of my life that I'd completely forgotten about, yet it was surprising what was tucked away in my memory. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  17:41, 1 December 2014 (UTC)