Talk:Charles Graner

Talk:Charles Graner/Archive 1

Untitled
Here are my suggestions that might improve it: In the article is written: "While in Iraq, Pvt. Lynndie England, also implicated in the prisoner scandal, allegedly became pregnant by him." This is excellent English but not an easy sentence for non-native speakers and my opinion is that wikipedia should also be not too hard to read for advanced non-native speakers of English. Well of course you may have another opinion. But what about this: "While in Iraq, Pvt. Lynndie England, also being accused of misconduct in the prisoner scandal, allegedly became pregnant by him." Not simpler English but easier to read for non-native speakers. Laudaka's talk page 09:29, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Should it also be moved down to the "Abu Ghraib timeline" Rich Farmbrough 00:20, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

"Three key witnesses refused to testify during a secret hearing against Graner..." Was it a hearing against Graner? Rich Farmbrough 00:15, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Charles Graner
If we must have Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse (no pictures) (which I dispute) then we must also have Charles_Graner (no pictures). Jooler 11:14, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Edits in last six months
I am just a little suspicious that some dubious edits may have happened since February 2005. Many details of names and places, details that I should have thought would be well known from early days, have changed since February - see this diff. I don't know enough about this chap to say which version is right: should I be concerned? -- ALoan (Talk) 18:48, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Clean up

 * I added a clean-up tag because this article is garbled and confusing, and because it has lots of conflicting information, bad text-formatting, and the different points in his life are not in chronological order. Jdcooper 17:30, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Name of his wife
Before the last line in 'Birth and early life': "In June 1990, he married Alicia Q. Donahue in Downey, California."

First line in 'Domestic disputes and Persian Gulf War': "On June 15, 1990, Graner married Staci M. Dean, a 19-year-old from Ohiopyle."

It looks like this is the same marriage, but then what really is her name?

Pohl or Pohn
Is the judge's name Pohl or Pohn, both names seem to be used.

Missing citations
Where, oh where are the citations for this article? There is ample information available on what Graner did at Abu Ghraib, but those who have edited this page seem to have been too lazy to cite sources. Also, when the article was in featured status, were the current uncited references to Graner being a sadist part of it? Unless you're citing the professional opinion of a mental health expert who has had time to examine Graner and diagnose him as a sadist, you're asking for a lawsuit from the subject of this biograpical article. Being justifiably outraged over what the man and his fellow soldiers did to other human beings is no excuse for sloppy writing and editing. Rafa8134 22:06, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh noes a lawsuit
"you're asking for a lawsuit from the subject of this biograpical article."

Yeah that's right Mr. janitor on steroids is going to sue Wikipedia, he'll be too busy with his new job cleaning ben hurs shotgun collection and wrapping himself in the new butchers apron.

Incorrect High School on Page
You might want to check your sources. I believe that Mr. Graner went to Baldwin High School, not Whittier as the article states.

New infobox
I've added the Criminal infobox to this article.

After some thought, I've decided to move this infobox up right below the Military Person infobox at the top. My reasoning for this is that he wouldn't even be known to the public, or worthy of an entry, unless he did these things. This is different from people like Martha Stewart and Michael Vick, who have their Criminal infoboxes down in the relevant section, as they are known for other things (and were well-known before they committed crimes).

I can't decide whether the Military Person or the Criminal infobox should serve as the "main" (first) infobox in this article... he's not known for his military merit, so I feel the Criminal one should go first, but... what do you all think? --Shadowlink1014 05:11, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

England interview
An interview with Lynndie England was published a few days ago and is available here. I think it is worth reviewing as an additional source for this article. Jayen 466 14:31, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Prostitute accusations
There are two accusations listed regarding an "accused prostitute" and another being forced to expose themselves. Neither of these are shown with a source WP:BLP must be followed; if these two accusations don't have sources attached to them, they could be seen as libelous. 23skidoo (talk) 21:32, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

What?
The following statement does not make sense: How was he deployed to serve in a war that wasn't going on at the time, and how did he end up arriving there 10 years before he left? I'm going to remove the "In March 2001" opening. Rejectwater (talk) 16:14, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * "In March 2001, Graner was deployed during the Persian Gulf War, serving with the 2nd MP Co, originally of 4th FSSG, 4th Marine Division, a Marine Reserve unit based in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. On January 11, 1991, he arrived in Saudi Arabia..."

Wikipedia is doomed. It cannot even enforce it's own policies on "Biographies of Living People". --Accountable User (talk) 18:06, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Inappropriate wording
I changened "Iraqis were pushing their own into the barbed wire fences" because I dont think if an Iraqi read this they would like it. Please refrain from saying offensive things because its annoying and someone will eventually have to change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mariabrenna (talk • contribs) 05:48, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Description of Graner's dress at jury selection
He was dressed in a jacket and tie, dark green military fatigues, black boots, and a black dress beret. I removed this since it was confused and not really relevant. Graner was wearing the Army Green service uniform, as do nearly all persons standing accused during proceedings leading up to something as serious as a general court martial. The service uniform is not a fatigue uniform and is not normally worn with boots unless the wearer is on airborne status or performing MP law enforcement duties (neither of which applies to Graner that day and the photo accompanying the cited NY Times article does not show Graner wearing boots). The jacket and tie are routine parts of the service uniform, especially during winter months (the tie is required if the jacket is worn). There is also no such thing as a dress beret. The same beret is worn with all Army uniforms for which its wear is proscribed.--SEWalk (talk) 13:11, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Charles Graner. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20040611010114/http://www.cbsnews.com:80/elements/2004/05/04/iraq/whoswho615518_0_10_person.shtml to http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2004/05/04/iraq/whoswho615518_0_10_person.shtml
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20050313020021/http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au:80/common/story_page/0,5744,11955759%255E1702,00.html to http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11955759%255E1702,00.html

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Wedding unsourced
"In 2005, while serving time for his role in the Abu Ghraib scandal, Graner married fellow Abu Ghraib guard Megan Ambuhl. Because she was not permitted to see him for the first 2.5 years of his incarceration, a friend stood in for him during the wedding". This is not mentioned by the source. --THausherr (talk) 07:29, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 2 one external links on Charles Graner. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added tag to http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44045023#.Tj1gE4Ljp3t
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050205172311/http://www.msnbc.msn.com:80/id/5412316/displaymode/1098/ to http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5412316/displaymode/1098
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060927043055/http://italy.usembassy.gov/viewer/article.asp?article=/file2004_05/alia/a4051904.htm to http://www.italy.usembassy.gov/viewer/article.asp?article=/file2004_05/alia/a4051904.htm
 * Added tag to http://www.seattlepi.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Prisoner%20Abuse

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External links modified
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I have just modified 2 external links on Charles Graner. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080709005008/http://www.cdi.org/news/law/abu-ghraib-graner.cfm to http://www.cdi.org/news/law/abu-ghraib-graner.cfm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20040608020355/http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20040507-1742-prisonerabuse-guard.html to http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20040507-1742-prisonerabuse-guard.html

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External links modified
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templates like Template:birth year and age should not be frivolously corrected...
Templates like Template:birth year and age should not be frivolously corrected. They automatically insert machine readable info that aid robots in classifying articles.

This edit, from an IP, frivolously "corected" an instance of birth year and age. I reverted it. Geo Swan (talk) 08:52, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Now
Anyone now where granger is now? Conrad Morrell-Nichols (talk) 21:47, 31 December 2022 (UTC)