Talk:Charles Karel Bouley

Stations
iamkarel: The Karel Show Sat: 9p-12a; Sun 7p to 10p KGO NewsTalk 810 San Francisco Mon-Fri 3pm to 6pm Syndicated 3pm - 6pm PST (some stations time shift)KRXA AM 540 Monterey/Salinas/Santa CruzKYNS San Luis ObispoKGOE Eureka, WXMR in Vermont, check. — DocOfSoc • Talk  •  00:07, 11 November 2011 (UTC) corrected times on air  — DocOfSoc •  Talk  •  03:17, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Changes to be made
ref # 6 "www.humboldtlibraryfoundation.org/images/" HLF Press Release - Karel.pdf M-F format changed Decmber 29. 2013 Other Avenues being explored This editor is fighting cancer so updates will be delayed  — DocOfSoc • Talk  •  03:58, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Karel Show
I added a reference to his having again been fired from KGO, and removed the prior reference to the daily Karel Show in syndication (mainly because I don't see a clear reference to it on his site–if someone can verify it's still on, go ahead and add a reference back in). –FeralDruid (talk) 04:58, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Hello there! Too rusty to edit much. The link I found for Wall Street Journal is http://elisa-rolle.livejournal.com/2450485.html Link #7 said help. Due to Chemo brain, I have to relearn all Weki rules. Respectfully  — DocOfSoc • Talk  •  23:13, 10 July 2017 (UTC)DocOfSoc

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Some of this article is written like an advertisement
Some of this is written like an advertisement. I fixed one, "he braved the trail in podcasting" but can someone with more experience on that take a look at the whole article? ElizaBarrington (talk) 19:18, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Karel's firing over comments about Joe the Plumber
I can't find a source for it, but it's widely known in radio that he got fired for saying "fuck" on live, FCC-licensed radio about 5 times in one sentence. As it's written the article makes it sound like the comments were just outrageous. Nope, it was profanity that got him kicked off radio.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:12, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Charles Raymond Karel Bouley II.jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
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 * Charles Raymond Karel Bouley II.jpg

Please Add These to the Page
There is no television or recording section yet it is referenced that Karel records and does television. Could you add these to the page? Also, the web links at the bottom are wrong. His website is https://reallykarel.com and the HuffPost link is http://www.huffingtonpost.com/author/karel-411

Additions:

Recording
In 1992 Karel recorded "Everybody Get On Up" for a small independent label Kushi Records.

In 1994 he released "Turn It Up" followed in 1995 by his version of "Live To Tell" by Madonna.

Both of those were on the 1995 critically acclaimed album "Dance...Or Else"

In 1996 he recorded a remake of the late Sylvester's "Don't Stop" produced by Steve Bronski of Bronski Beat and remixed by the Factory Team.

In 1997 Karel signed with Jellybean Recordings and recorded "I Am" and "Take Your Heartache Away" both produced by Jellybean.

In 2018 he released Stronger Together co-written by himself and Morgan Mallory and featuring himself, Mallory, Thea Austin (from Snap!) and Daniel Charleston on vocals. It was followed by his remake of Bette Midler's Married Men.

Television
Karel debuted in August of 2001 on the show "Ultimate Revenge" hosted by Ryan Seacrest and starring himself and Marc Summers He appeared in 13 episodes of this reality/practical joke show.

In 2014 he debuted the reality/talk show hosted and created by himself on Free Speech TV entitled "Life...In Segments." The show ran for five seasons.

In 2020 and 2021 he produced, executive produced and hosted "The Dorian Awards" for the Society of LGBTQ Entertainment critics on both Revry and hereTV.

He has been a frequent guest on CNN and other cable news networks as himself. Raymondfrancais (talk) 01:31, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I will take a look at your suggestions and sources and see what makes sense to add to the page in the next few days. Thank you for sharing your suggestions on the talk page. —Ganesha811 (talk) 15:12, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I wasn’t aware one person controlled the content. I’m not being rude, I’m trying to learn. If these accomplishments are part of the career, if they are referenced (it says he is a recording artist, TV personality, etc) then doesn’t it make sense to list those achievements like a discography and TV series? Again, not trying to be rude, trying to learn. I have looked at other pages and they have these accomplishments so what would prevent them from being added here. Again, an honest question so I can learn. 2600:8801:2B8A:2100:65E9:7AF6:2714:1C10 (talk) 17:19, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, you reference him being fired by KGO three times, but not once does it mention he was rehired for five years after the termination, something that almost never happens in radio and was written about extensively. Why can it not be added after the reference to being fired, “ He would then regain his job in 2010 and stay at KGO until 2015 Upon leaving he began The Karel Cast, heard three times a week on all streaming platforms. Karel is also an author, columnist, comic, singer and stage performer ” ? ? ? 2600:8801:2B8A:2100:65E9:7AF6:2714:1C10 (talk) 17:22, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Anyone who doesn't have a COI is welcome to edit the page directly, provided they follow Wikipedia's policies. What's on the page isn't up to one person, it's up to the consensus of all editors. It does indeed make sense to include things like a music career or TV series, if they have been covered by secondary, reliable, independent sources. For example. IMDB's content is user-generated, and therefore long-standing Wikipedia consensus is that it is unreliable as a source. The same, by the way, applies to Discogs. However, if, say, the LA Times or SFGate or Billboard has reviewed/covered Karel's musical career, that would probably be considered reliable, independent, and secondary, and therefore could be included on the article. —Ganesha811 (talk) 17:25, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * All of those places have covered his musical career and TV career. Here are some links that may help you broken out by TV, Recording and Stage, as well as his returning to KGO after being fired. TV: Ultimate Revenge Links
 * https://www.avclub.com/tv/reviews/ultimate-revenge-2001
 * https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ultimate_Revenge
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Revenge
 * TV: Life In Segments
 * LB Post: https://lbpost.com/hi-lo/long-beach-s-oprah-2/
 * Press Telegram: https://www.presstelegram.com/2014/12/13/radio-host-karel-adds-tv-talk-show-to-resume-with-life-in-segments/
 * Karel’s Musical Links
 * https://www.last.fm/music/Karel/+wiki
 * https://www.eurokdj.com/search/eurodb.php?name=Karel
 * https://www.montereyherald.com/2014/07/29/radio-host-karel-does-stand-up-in-monterey/
 * https://northernlite.ca/Karel/Dance-Or-Else/45313
 * Album feature: Billboard: https://books.google.com/books?id=mw4EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=Karel+Dance+or+Else+Billboard&source=bl&ots=ghicsQAp8G&sig=ACfU3U2SEW6ua-jRm-X9pLXwsykVwMSxpQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiM8-bgnK__AhV3KEQIHVsaBr04FBDoAXoECAQQAw#v=onepage&q=Karel Dance or Else Billboard&f=false
 * Turn It Up Review, billboard: https://books.google.com/books?id=-BEEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA63&dq=Karel+Turn+It+Up+Billboard&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiD3OP1nK__AhWmh-4BHa8JC9oQ6AF6BAgDEAI#v=onepage&q=Karel Turn It Up Billboard&f=false
 * Karel single I Am by Jellybean Benitez, Billboard: https://books.google.com/books?id=DA8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA35&dq=Karel+I+Am+Billboard&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjKsqmgna__AhXvPkQIHWqNDlkQ6AF6BAgEEAI#v=onepage&q=Karel I Am Billboard&f=false
 * Stronger Together: Gay Entertainment Directory https://gedmag.com/afterdark/stronger-together-debuts/
 * Stronger together and other musical coverage as well as coverage of TV Show life In Segments, QVoice news: https://qvoicenews.com/2017/08/16/screaming-gay-liberal-talk-show-host-karel-sings-a-softer-tune/
 * Rehiring at KGO and Stage Show:
 * About being rehired at KGO as well as the live stage show from Bay Area Reporter: https://www.ebar.com/story.php?ch=news&id=241749
 * SF Press Club: https://sfpressclub.org/2011/03/14/karel-returning-to-kgo/ 2600:8801:2B8A:2100:65E9:7AF6:2714:1C10 (talk) 18:19, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Forgot links for the dorian awards TV shows:
 * dorian TV awards: Variety: https://variety.com/2021/awards/awards/2021-gay-lesbian-entertainment-critics-dorian-awards-winners-1234954316/
 * Dorians 2020: https://thequeerreview.com/2020/09/08/lgbtq-entertainment-critics-virtual-dorians-tv-awards-winners-toast/
 * https://awardswatch.com/galeca-society-of-lgbtq-entertainment-critics-2021-dorian-awards-to-air-live-on-revry-april-18/ 2600:8801:2B8A:2100:65E9:7AF6:2714:1C10 (talk) 18:27, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Wow, how could one person get thing so wrong? The album wasn’t Turn It Up, that was a single. The album was Dance…Or Else as is evidenced above in the Billboard story. It was not produced by Thea Austin, she sang on it. Your edits are completely wrong. You leave off the Jellybean Benitez recordings, you haven’t added TV appearances and productions. You argued with me for two days over edits and then make really horrible ones. OK, anyone out there care to edit the page correctly? The references are all above. Just click the links. 2600:8801:2B8A:2100:45A4:92AC:1BAF:A4FF (talk) 14:30, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Being rude is not generally productive. Wikipedia has policies against it. I've edited the article to reflect that "Turn It Up" was a single. Billboard states that it was produced by Thea Austin, among others. None of the TV appearances, with the exception of the FSTV show, appear to be notable. That FSTV show has been added. I no longer wish to engage with you and will not be making further improvements to the article (though you may view this as a boon). One final clarification, though; are you connected with @Raymondfrancais, or are you a separate person? —Ganesha811 (talk) 16:54, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Karel mentioned on his show that there was trouble with his wikipedia page so I checked it out and the talk page. I then went over all the talk and saw that it was actually you being rude to not only Raymond Francis, whoever that is, but were just making arbitrary changes that were not true for any apparent reason. Also that you were acting as the arbiter of what is notable and what is not. Karel was the first openly gay person on Spike TV in Ultimate Revenge, it was Ryan Seacrest's first major show and is noted on his Wikipedia page or at least was. You left out a lot of his music, which again is notable for its contribution to LGBTQ culture. I checked out your page and saw not only have you never edited a radio personality's page, but never an openly LGBTQ one, so I wondered why you chose this one to do. It just seemed odd that you don't want the truth to be told about this ground-breaking LGBTQ performer. Maybe you're not in the community and don't know how important he is to it, but it just seemed odd. I do not edit Wiki pages or I would have made the changes myself. Sorry if you thought it rude, but it seems rude to eliminate someone's contributions to a marginalized community because you don't feel they are relevant. They are, now, and were very much so then. Trust me, I was a young gay man in the 90s and watching Karel on TV or hearing him on radio or in clubs was very important to me. It's why I follow his career still. Thanks for making the changes.I hope more are made by others to reflect his real contributions. 50.159.254.172 (talk) 18:08, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * That's very interesting! Having looked it up, Karel says on his podcast that his page "has been taken over by conservative editors" and that "I am fighting them and on appeal". What could he mean by that? Raymondfrancais claimed he hadn't worked for Karel for two years and no longer spoke to him. You say that you heard about it on his show and only came here after that. And yet Karel says on his podcast that he is personally fighting on Wikipedia and is on appeal.
 * Again, whoever you may be, your problem is not with me but with Wikipedia's policies. We need reliable, independent, secondary sources to add things to Wikipedia. Just any old website won't do. IMDB and Discogs are specifically disallowed. If you took a step back and looked at the article with a little perspective, you'd see that it's actually *better* than it was a week ago, because it's not a total mess anymore. People are more likely to read it, believe it, and come away from it with useful information, rather than seeing a disorganized, promotional heap of poorly sourced details. —Ganesha811 (talk) 18:32, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * My name is Michael, and again, I heard about this on the show you reference. I don't know what Karel is doing about it, he did say he was appealing on the show and I don't know how one does that as I'm not an editor and don't have my own pages since I'm retired and that isn't notable I guess, as I don't know him personally just listen to him like many, many others. But you seem to do a lot of research to argue on this page, but with just a little research of my own I have found multiple Billboard articles about his recording and awards, I have found multiple Variety, Deadline and other stories about the Dorian Awards, the only LGBTQ movie and Film award shows that appeared those years, stories about his show with Ryan Seacrest...so hopefully another editor will add those in. But thanks for the response.Again, you keep quoting RaymonFrancais I don't know who that is and Karel mentions everyone in his world weekly and I've never heard him mention the name, at least not enough to recall. But again, I don't know who he works with behind the scenes or doesn't. It seems that person has upset you. I'm not trying to upset you, I'm trying to understand why you don't think major things he's done for the community are important. Like the Dorian Awards. Every major publication in entertainment covered them, and mentioned him, I did a quick google search, but they are not here. And each said how groundbreaking they were. And his other singles, working with Steve Bronski, legendary artist from Bronski Beat, signing with Jellybean Benitez, again, legendary and Karel was the only gay person on that label at that time, again, an accomplishment. So I do hope someone adds these in. Or maybe I'll find out how to sign up. In any case, have a great rest of your weekend.And for the record "better" is subjective. What may be better to you may not be better to others. Accuracy is best, I find. Facts, with no agenda or controversy, just facts, are always best. Thanks for the discourse. 50.159.254.172 (talk) 19:15, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello Ganesha811 whoever you may be. Karel here. Glad you listened to the show, I can always use another listener! After going over this talk page and the edits, many wrong, that you continue to make to my page, yes, I said on the show I would be opening a dispute. There is a process at Wikipedia if one is having trouble with an editor, and it appears for some reason you are having problem with me and what I've done. You keep saying on this page you've made things better. How? By deleting many of my accomplishments that were, in fact, notable enough to be written about by major press? By arguing with people who try to change it. You keep mentioning Raymond Francis. Raymond was an independent publicist that worked for another company that I did one show for. He handled that show and event and publicity for it. So he was "my" publicist for that event and that event only and I never paid him, the company promoting the show/event did. But he became a fan and listened and watched afterwards. I haven't spoken to him in a few years, since Covid actually. He sent me an email to let me know what was going on, but so did others, as luckily I'm still heard by many. Like Michael below. I didn't ask him to come here and talk to you, I mentioned on my show my page was being held hostage by one editor who refuses to let anyone change it if the change is not to their liking. Given your comments, that appears the case. You think your edits are best, and if anyone changes it, you change it back. You think your version of my life and achievements are best. Well, I, and it appears others, disagree. I would appreciate it all together if you'd stick to your word printed here and stop editing my page all together. If something doesn't meet guidelines, let other editors handle it. I get it. IMDB and Discogs is not a source. OK, there's many, many others for what needs to change on the page. And I am well aware this is not a PR page, but an encyclopedic entry. Read my page. I have far more editorial and number one publications than you I suspect. So I am well aware of the confines. But bare bones representation of major milestones? Why? Other pages aren't restricted to a few words. Many wiki pages are quite full and flowery. I have no quarrel with you and do not wish any kind of fight or harassment from you. I cannot edit the page. It is my hope someone does, adds in the things missing, and those edits meet with Wikipedia's requirements. If that happens I do hope you'll leave them as such and stop controlling this page like it was your own personal space to edit. Thanks so much for all the work you do for Wikipedia and your comments. And keep listening! Karel Reallykarel (talk) 19:49, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * PS Ganesha811 I'd be happy to work WITH you to make some changes that accurately reflect my 40 year career, not against you in any way. For Instance, the recording section is lacking greatly. The Dorians, I hosted n 2020 and 2021, three shows, and produced, not every show ever, just those three. Things like that. I understand if you don't wish to make the changes and that's fine, but I'd much rather be a friend and helper than hinderance. Reallykarel (talk) 20:16, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm no longer interested in working on this article. My best wishes to you and your fans. —Ganesha811 (talk) 21:55, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your reply and your work. I just read the updated version and it only needs a few things. Thanks again and again, I'm sorry if things escalated between you and them. This pride month my community feels especially vulnerable and I know you were only working from an editorial standpoint, not any other interests. It just felt differently. I have learned a lot in a short time from reading all the resources you posted for Raymond and Michael, about what is and is not allowed, the acceptable sources, etc, and you are right some needed other sourcing, etc. I thank you for your efforts in making this a safe, inclusive environment and hope you have a lovely week ahead. Be well and safe in these uncertain times if you are in the USA. So many storms brewing. Reallykarel (talk) 22:11, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Then why did you come back Aug. 13 and edit it AGAIN. Why can't you just leave it alone? Is this personal? It's feeling personal to those of us watching the page. Raymondfrancais (talk) 18:19, 21 August 2023 (UTC)