Talk:Charles Lee Smith

Request for Comments
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.

The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person.

Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 18:15, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Add list for possible source material
Smith and his AAAA had a few mentions in the pay portion of the NYTimes archives; I'm putting up a (possibly partial) list of articles here, for possible fleshing out this bio and/or creating the AAAA page.
 * November 26, 1925 ATHEISTS GET RIGHT TO FORM SOCIETY; Incorporation Certificate, Approved by Justice Ford, Filed With County Clerk.


 * June 17, 1926 SOVIET BACKS PLAN TO TEST EVOLUTION; Experiments to Be Carried Out at Pasteur Institute in Kindia, Africa. SUPPORT HERE IS ALLEGED Lawyer for the American Atheistic Society Tells of Project and Will Go to Observe It.
 * October 13, 1926 ATHEISTS TO HEAR STRATON; Accept Plan for Reciproc: Visits -President May Speak In Church.


 * April 02, 1927 STRATON TO FIGHT ATHEIST IN COURT; Says Charles Smith Is Annoying Him by Sending Clippings and Letters by Mail.
 * April 05, 1927 FIGHT STRATON'S CHARGE.; C.L. Smith, Atheism Society Head, Wires Intention to Come Here.
 * May 09, 1927 BARS BIRTH CONTROL TALK.; Boston Censor Acts to Prevent Speech by Atheist Leader.
 * May 29, 1927 STRATON REFUSES TO 'FORGIVE' ATHEIST; Won't Drop Fight When Smith Promises He Will Quit Trying to Convert Him. COURT FAILS TO MOVE HIM Says It Would Be Easier to Change Gibraltar Than the Beliefs of Baptist Preacher.
 * June 05, 1927 REFUSES STRATON'S PLEA.; Magistrate Balks at Ordering Arrest of Atheist Society's Leader.
 * October 02, 1927 STRATON TESTIFIES AGAINST ATHEIST Produces Literature Which He Charges Charles Smith Sent to Him for Six Months. DEFENSE LAWYER REBUKED Snitkin Is Ordered by Court to Be More Respectful to Pastor -- Hearing
 * October 15, 1927 A PROPHET OF GOD, STRATON TESTIFIES; Pastor Declares That as Such He Can Allow No Man to Hinder His Work to Guard Youth. GOES ON STAND WITH BIBLE Cross-Examined Two Hours on Charges Against Atheist Leader -- Trial Adjourned to Nov. 4.
 * November 07, 1927 RELIGIOUS ISSUE DEBATED.; Slaten Favors Catholic in Presidency -- Atheist Opposes It. The election of a Catholic to would accomplish ending religious bigotry, theRev. Arthur Wakefield Slaten, pastor of the West Side UnitarianChurch, declared last night in a debate with
 * November 11, 1927 HARRIS CONDEMNS 'CURES' BY STRATON; Calvary Services Might Become 'Actual Menace to Public,' Says Health Head. ATHEIST DEMANDS ARREST Asserts Pastor Has No License to Practice Healing -- Minister Invites Harris to Attend.
 * November 15, 1927 ATHEISTS TO INSIST ON STRATON ARREST; Smith Says He Will Act Despite Banton -- Harris Absolves "Healing" Services. SAYS HE WON'T INTERFERE But Counsel Holds Health Board Has Jurisdiction -- Paralytic Asserts Treatment Helped.
 * November 16, 1927 ATHEIST IS ANOINTED AT STRATON'S SERVICE; Spy Seeks to Obtain Evidence of Law Violation at Healing Rites in Calvary Baptist Church.
 * November 26, 1927 ATHEIST HEAD HELD ON STRATON CHARGE; C.L. Smith Placed Under Bail After Hearing on Sending Literature to Pastor. THEOLOGY NOT AN ISSUE Judge Says Clergyman Cannot Be Moved From Beliefs and Penal Offense Is Sole Point Involved.
 * December 16, 1927 ATHEIST HEAD ACTS TO SPEED HIS TRIAL; L.S. Smith Surrenders at the Tombs in Straton Case, Then Seeks Habeas Corpus. DECISION IS DUE TODAY Bail Is Refunded as President of Society Is Paroled in the Custody of Counsel.
 * December 21, 1927 CRAIN IS ASSAILED BY STRATON CHURCH; Members Criticize Dismissal of Pastor's Complaint Against Leader of Atheists. WANT AN APPEAL TAKEN Justice Is Said to Have Acted Without Understanding of Minister's Case.


 * January 01, 1928 DR. STRATON THINKS JUDGE MISINFORMED; In Open Letter to Crain, Galvary Pastor Assails Remarks in Atheist Suit. HOPES FOR NEW DECISION Declares Old One Was Based on Assumption That He Got Only One "Annoying" Letter.
 * January 03, 1928 ATHEIST HITS BACK IN STRATON ROW; Never Sent "Stream of Sensuous and Seditious" Matterto Pastor, Smith Insists.CALLS LETTER UNTRUTHFUL Welcomes Trial, He Declares, and Is Not Frightened by Appeal From Court Dccision.
 * March 24, 1928 ATHEIST TO BE TRIED ON STRATON CHARGE; Justice Crain's Ruling Freeing Smith Upset by Decision of Appellate Division. PERMITS NEW CHURCH ALSO Court Upholds Calvary Trustees, Whose Action Brought a Row in Which Five Were Expelled.
 * April 12, 1928 DR. STRATON SUED NOW BY ATHEIST; C.L. Smith Asks $100,000 Damages, Charging the Pastor With Defaming Character. PREACHER CALLS IT 'STUNT' 'FoolishH Judge' and 'Slick Lawyer' Freed His Opponent, He Says at Calvary Church.
 * April 13, 1928 ATHEIST'S TRIAL MONDAY.; Smith to Face Charge of Annoying Dr. Straton, Banton Asserts.
 * May 15, 1928 ATHEIST CONVICTED ON STRATON CHARGE; C.L. Smith Held Violator of Law in Annoying the Pastor Through Mails. TO BE SENTENCED MONDAY Freethinker Cross-Examines the Minister, Who Denies Bias and Assails "Vile Literature."
 * May 22, 1928 ATHEIST FINED $100 IN DR. STRATON CASE; C.L. Smith Pays Rather Than Go to Workhouse for 30 Days for Annoying Pastor. DECLARES HE WILL APPEAL Court Suspends Sentence on Seven Counts Upon Which Defendant Was Convicted Last Week.
 * November 08, 1928 ANTI-EVOLUTION BILL AHEAD IN ARKANSAS; Vote of 795 of 2,018 Precincts, Including Cities, Is 36,689 For to 25,549 Against.
 * February 12, 1929 MASONS HOLD SERVICE FOR ELLIOTT, ATHEIST; Funeral Takes Place Despite Provision in Will for Secular Ceremony.
 * Note, this seems likely the funeral of James I. Elliot, president of the Ingersoll forum; based on the Jackson reference, Smith may have subsequently taken up the leadership of this forum, which was later renamed the "Racist Forum"
 * February 25, 1930 RUSSIA CONTINUES TO CLOSE CHURCHES; More Synagogues and Mosques Also Shut, Thirteen of the Latter in One Town. FITTINGS GO FOR TRACTORS Chief of Minsk Rabbis Likely to Be Freed Soon--Soviet Authorities List Their "Crimes."
 * March 07, 1930 HOLD UNEMPLOYMENT ABSENT IN RUSSIA; Friends of Soviet Union Contradict Abramovich--ProtestMeeting on March 16.
 * March 17, 1930 12,000 BOO RELIGION AT RED RALLY HERE; Whalen, Mussolini, Capitalism and the Pope Share Ire of Communist Speakers. 450 POLICE GUARD HALL But Radicals Go Home Quietly After Paying 25 Cents Each to Cheer Calls to "Class War." Crowd Disperses Quietly. 12,000 BOO RELIGION AT RED RALLY HERE Take Up Collection. Foster Predicts Holy War. Boys in Red Pageant. Would Fight in Class War.
 * February 22, 1931 'BLAME-GIVING DAY' URGED BY ATHEISTS; Convention Offers Substitute for President's Thanksgiving Proclamation. CATHOLIC CHURCH ASSAILED Charles Smith, Head of Association, Says Democrats Will Become the Catholic Party."
 * February 23, 1931 ATHEIST POINTS TO SCIENCE; Convention Speaker Says Biology Shows Non-Existence of Deity
 * June 15, 1931 BIBLE STUDY FOUGHT BY TEACHERS' UNION; It Opposes Giving Credits and Asks That All Religious Groups Be Barred From Schools. ATHEISTS WANT CLASSES Demand Same Privileges as Those Extended to Interfaith Board for After-School Training. Protest of Teachers' Union. Atheists Ask Teaching Rights.
 * October 22, 1931 MAGISTRATE TO DECIDE IF ATHEISM IS RELIGION; Columbus Circle Speaker Haled to Court Sees His Right to Free Speech Violated.
 * November 27, 1931 PROTEST THANKSGIVING.; Atheists Hold Their "First Annual Blamegiving Service."
 * October 19, 1932 CITIZENS DEMAND 'REAL' BUDGET CUTS; Grimm Calls Change in Subway Bonds "Bookkeeping" Saving, Insufficient to Meet Need. TELLS OF EXTRAVAGANCES Sanitation Department Has $821,000 Payroll to Care for 20 Horses, He Says at East Side Meeting.
 * July 15, 1932 ATHEIST SUMMONED IN TEST OF ORDINANCE; Charles Smith Fights Projected Law Against Speaking in Street Without Permit.
 * April 28, 1932 RULES FOR ATHEIST.; Appeals Court Holds Conviction of Charles Smith Unwarranted.
 * October 27, 1932 SUE TO BAN ARMORY BOUTS.; Atheists Get Writ to Halt 'Religious' Benefit of 106th Infantry.
 * January 29, 1933 ATHEISTS AVOID POLITICS.; Vote Not to Adopt Platform or an Economic Code.
 * May 11, 1933 ATHEIST SPEAKER FINED.; Head of National Group Seized at Meeting Held Without Permit.
 * May 08, 1934 ATHEIST PLEA RULED OUT.; Supreme Court Refuses to Hear Smith's Street Meeting Issue.
 * January 19, 1937 FREEMAN HOPWOOD; Former Secretary of Association for Advancement of Atheism
 * article seems probably an obituary for an acquaintance
 * September 01, 1948 FCC VIEWS LIKENED TO 'THOUGHT POLICE'; Counsel to Broadcasters Hits 'Indication' of Enforced Radio Time for Atheists
 * September 05, 1949 HE SEES RELIGION DOOMED; But American Atheist Leader Says He Opposes Communism

There also appears to be a few footnoted pages in "Science for Segregation: Race, Law, and the Case against Brown v. Board of Education" by John P. Jackson Jr. (pp 55-58); the page on Charles L. Smith at the MetaPedia.org wiki (which site is blacklisted, and has an incompatible license) notes some material from it. Jackson's work, in turn, points to "Dreamer of the Day: Francis Parker Yockey & The Postwar Fascist International" by Coogan, pp. 478-489.

There is also a piece in the February 27, 1928 issue of Time Magazine, mentioning the AAAA. Abb3w (talk) 16:02, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Another bit of AAAA linked random turns up in the Motion Picture Producers and Distributors of America records, protesting over The Godless Girl. Abb3w (talk) 16:36, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Conflict over John P. Jackson's "Science for Segregation" -- censorship?
I'm adding this to the talk page, because another user deleted a couple of the most embarrassing bits on the grounds that "Material by author never existed". The source book in question is "Science for Segregation", published by NYU press in August, 2005 (ISBN: 9780814742716). The NYU press states that the author John P. Jackson, Jr. was an Assistant Professor of Communication at the University of Colorado. Minimal Google-stalking readily turns up a number of papers by this author and an apparent CV. The book itself may be previewed on Google Books and on Amazon.

The author and material in question appear to exist. Abb3w (talk) 17:48, 22 July 2016 (UTC), Edit to fix Wiki Markup Abb3w (talk) 18:16, 22 July 2016 (UTC)


 * User:Abb3w -- you're probably inactive on wiki these days, but I just saw this myself. My personal view is twofold -- one, is the fact that Mr. Smith was a scientific racist notable enough for inclusion in this article? And if so, how should it be covered? I personally think that the former is a "yes," but it can certainly be covered better than a brief sentence in the lede. When I read it, having apparently forgotten or not learnt that fact before now, I wanted to know more, but there's not a single bit of detail in the entire rest of the article to explain or expand upon the lede's frankly shocking claim. I'm going to remove that line *for now*, until I can get my hands on a copy of that book (or a similar book) that goes more in-depth into what this guy thought. Otherwise, it's just a distraction. RexSueciae (talk) 01:21, 13 April 2021 (UTC)


 * RexSueciae, in the book about Smith 4 pages and the following is written.