Talk:Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord

Napoleon quote
Could we please find any excuse at all to report that Napoleon referred to Talleyrand as "shit in a silk stocking?" Please? :) - montréalais


 * Hmm.. well.. Talleyrand's illegitimate son by Adélaïde-Emilie Filleul (herself apparently the illegitimate daughter of King Louis XV), Auguste Charles Joseph, Comte de Flahaut de la Billarderie, fought under Napoleon, and was the lover of Caroline Murat (Napoleon's sister) and of Hortense de Beauharnais (Napoleon's step-daughter), whose illegitimate son by him became Duke of Morny.  But I guess that would make him a bastard in silk-stockings - close but no cigar :(.  Under what circumstances was Napoleon's comment made? -- Someone else 07:31 Mar 11, 2003 (UTC)


 * semi-answering myself here: on 28 janvier 1809, «Ah, tenez, vous êtes de la merde dans un bas de soie», apparently on the basis of his implacably officious, bureaucratic nature.... -- Someone else 07:45 Mar 11, 2003 (UTC)

:Talleyrand was very cultured, charming, well-groomed, etc, and Napoleon admired him for all this. He was also guilty of mass bribes, treachery, general "evil-doing" that led people to say he had the face of an angel and the soul of the devil. Hence the 'shit in silk stocking' line. - Tavi October 28 2004

Most of the internet biographies maintain he is buried at Valençay. Was he moved to the Cimetière de Passy, or are we just wrong about that? -- Someone else 07:19 Mar 11, 2003 (UTC)


 * EB also says he was buried at Valençay. However, several listings of the graves at Passy mention that his grave is there, so I'm pretty sure he was moved. AxelBoldt 18:18, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)


 * Actually I take that back: I don't believe the sites that mention Passy anymore.AxelBoldt 18:48, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)


 * I already answered in the french Bistro, but it's better to repeat it here : I suppose he would be listed on http://www.paris.fr/fr/vos_demarches/obseques/cimetiere_passy.ASP if his grave were in Cimetière de Passy. Since he's not, I guess you have your answer..._R_ 13:54, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Sources?
Looking at this article, it's obvious that it has significant unacknowledged sources: it's far too circumstantial to be just what someone knows off the top of their head. I'm guessing the sources are mostly public domain (because old), but they should still be acknowledged. -- Jmabel 05:54, Jul 4, 2004 (UTC)

Anon recently changed the date Napoleon made him Grand Chamberlain and Vice-elector and that he bought the Chateau Valençay from 1803 to 1804. I have no idea whether this is a correction or subtle vandalism. Does anyone have a citation? Jmabel (undated, sorry, some time spring '05 I think)

Deletion
Why is my contribution completely deleted, without any discussion about the contents? I have read a biography of Talleyrand and you can't delete information just like that to my opinion. user 82.139.82.46, or daanschr
 * I'm sure that if your contribution was deleted, it was because someone had a problem with the content, not with you personally. I, for one, don't look through the article history for what content is whose; almost no one does. I suggest, though, that if you want to understand why your particular content was removed, that you search the edit history and see whether the person who removed it left an edit summary. If not, I suggest you ask about the specific content issue here instead of asking about "my contribution", because the issue is going to be whether the content is worth having in the article, not who put it there. -- Jmabel | Talk July 3, 2005 03:56 (UTC)

foot
The medical literature refers to him having a "club foot" rather than a "foot injury". Do we know which of these two is (or are both) true? - Nunh-huh 09:36, 31 October 2005 (UTC) In The Ruin of Karsch, Robert Colasso relates that Talleyrand injured his foot at the age of four. His foot was not congenitally deformed.

Bribes
I have heard before the allegations of bribes that were recently added to the article as unvarnished fact. I have no idea of whether they are true. Does anyone have a citation for this? -- Jmabel | Talk 00:37, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Odd recent addition removed
"Lord Talleyrand should not be confused with Lord Halleyrand who became the first 21st Regal lord of 'The Regency' in St. Davids, PA in June of 2004." Indeed. Nor is he likely to be, so I have removed this from the article. (Talleyrand should not be confused with Sally Rand, either.) -- Jmabel | Talk 08:17, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Wife
The following was recently, anonymously removed without comment:

"Talleyrand tried to prevent a marriage, but after a lot of postponement, he was obliged to marry on instigation of Napoleon: otherwise his political career would have been over. Visitors to Talleyrand were shocked by the behaviour of his wife, who was regarded as a beauty, but very stupid."

I don't really have any remark on it either way; I wouldn't mind seeing it restored, but if it is, citation would be nice. - Jmabel | Talk 00:41, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * "Je suis d'Inde" is her famous line. Mme de Talleyrand was born in India to be sure, but a dinde is a female dindon (turkey). --Wetman 08:39, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm restoring it with a citation. It seems roughly true. Talleyrand doesn't appear to have been particularly bothered whether he married or not. More interestingly, they couldn't get a proper dispensation from Rome to allow it (Talleyrand being, nominally, still a bishop who had taken priestly orders). In the end Napoleon simply announced that Rome had allowed it, twisting the words of a dispatch from Rome granting Talleyrand's "secularization". Perhaps that should go in the article too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.173.12.40 (talk • contribs) 12 November 2006.


 * It would just be obsurd to think of someone telling Talleyrand that his carrer would be over, Even Napoleon. She was regarded by him Tallyrand "Of great beauty, but I have never met a more idle or lazy person in my life." {This quote is from a wikipeida article, that I cannot find )
 * From NY times, 1883 (April 15, 1883, Wednesday Page 12, 537 words), Talleyrand was quoted by the Times "Mais mon cher, que voule-vous que je fasse, ma femme est si bête" Trans: "We take the truth of the matter to be that Mem. de Talleyrand was at times a little crazy."
 * []
 * I would actually resolve this, by just quoting Talleyrand from the Times.

--Artoftransformation 04:05, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

The question of Catherine Grand and the marriage is vexing, and many aspects remain unclear. Talleyrand was well known for burning letters (he gives specific instructions on how to burn a letter to one of his female friends Aimee de Coigny, as she records in her memoires; and at the foot of one surviving letter of his are the words "Brulez Cette Lettre"). It is perhaps little surprise that we have zero correspondence between Talleyrand and his wife. The circumstances of his marriage are odd and unclear-- a subject addressed by the historian Leon Noel. Its hard to tell whether Catherine was stupid or not-- one must remember that she was a native English speaker, living in France; how much of her maladroit comments are simply the product of someone speaking in a non-native language? We just don't know.

What is clear from the Memoires of Madame de Remusat is that the marriage surprised contemporaries -- Catherine was Talleyrand's mistress, and hardly "marrying material" for someone with a great name like Talleyrand-Perigord, and was thought to have been forced upon Talleyrand by Napoleon. Whether that is true or not we don't know, but it is what was thought at the time. Crocodilian (talk) 20:10, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I added a statement that the marriage to Catherine ended after the Congress of Vienna (1814-1815) when Talleyrand entered into an arrangement with Dorothea. I utilized the following source:::[]

Now, as far as Catherine goes, I found this writeup with some stories from Le Brun (one of her painters) about an embarrassing moment where Catherine read Robinson Crusoe and took the tale to be true.:::[]

I have a book written in 2015 downloaded that I will attempt to read tonight to attempt to find a better reference to the divorce from Catherine. TurboManiacal (talk) 22:31, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I have finished reading "Talleyrand" by Duff Cooper, originally published in 1932 and updated in 2015. There is no mention of a Divorce from Catherine. It is indicated in the book that Napoleon had Catherine exiled from France for her involvement with the Duke of San Carlos and even before that, her gregarious behavior was a social embarrassment to Talleyrand. I will continue to search for additional citeable material to support the assertion of divorce but without additional supporting / primary source documents, think the reference to Divorce should be removed from three articles:
 * - Talleyrand's Article
 * - Catherine's Article
 * - The Loss of clerical state (Catholic Church)

TurboManiacal (talk) 16:36, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

"Shit in a silk stocking" the context and the reference
The celebrated dressing down by Napoleon is most completely reported in the memoires of Chancelier Pasquier (an excellent primary reference for this period in French history). The context is complex. Napoleon was in Spain, fighting a war of which Talleyrand did not approve. The Napoleonic regime was less domestically stable than the later Napoleonic legend would have it. . . Napoleon did not have deep political roots in France, and faced continuous, well funded espionage by foreign powers in league with the Bourbons (see Elizabeth Sparrow's excellent "Secret Service: British Agents in France" (ISBN 0851157645) for many examples). Napoleon had also faced an assassination attempt, and a coup attempt by another general (for example Pichegru).

In that context, Napoleon devised an interesting strategy for domestic peace. A ferocious former revolutionary, Joseph Fouche ran an extremely effective police force, and had his thumb on his former colleagues in the radical left. Talleyrand as an aristocrat with well known ties with Britain (his wife was English, and Fox was a close friend) and with the elite of society. Napoleon's neat phrase for this relationship was "Fouche is the Talleyrand of the clubs [meaning the republican organizations] and Talleyrand is the Fouche of the salons". The fact that the two men advertised their disdain for one another made Napoleon confident that he had a clever arrangement for assuring his control over domestic political opposition.

Against that backdrop, it was a major challenge to Napoleon when, while he was in Spain, Talleyrand and Fouche publically patched up their differences, and appeared together, Talleyand leaning on Fouche's arm (because of the limp -- but the physical proximity was a significant message in a society that was very much oriented to small signals). Not only did they appear together, but Talleyrand voiced his opposition to the Spanish War.

Napoleon, learning of all this, viewed it as tantamount to a coup attempt. He rushed back from Spain, and held the celebrated public dressing down of Talleyrand where this comment was made. The longer tirade includes other such memorable lines as "I could break you like glass, but it's not worth the trouble".

It is interesting that Napoleon juggled Talleyrand and Fouche in and out of power, trying to make use of their talents, which he estimed, while understanding that their loyalty was purely situational. It appears that he believed that he could balance the one off against the other-- but each man was more sophisticated than this, and its reasonable to assume that they reached their own private accomodation with each other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crocodilian (talk • contribs) 24 Feb 2006

Nature of Talleyrand's infirmity
The exact nature of Talleyrand's infirmity is unknown. His memoires describe it as the result of childhood injury. Such injuries do occur ("toddler fractures") but context makes this seem less likely. His precision in reporting the malfeasance of a wetnurse, at a time which he could not recall, is suspect. One should remember that congenital deformities were not uncommon in that time, nor were injuries to extremities resulting in amputation or lameness. However, there was a major social difference-- congenital deformities were thought to reflect character, whereas injuries that occurred later in life were understood as accidental. In that context, see Barras' nasty slur on Talleyrand to the effect "his soul is as twisted as his body"-- a comment which is more telling if the defect were congenital.

A reasonable guess is that he preferred to present this defect as acquired, rather than congenital, because an acquired injury had a different social connotation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crocodilian (talk • contribs) 24 Feb 2006

Mary Wollstonecraft
Shouldn't there be a reference to the dedication/address to Talleyrand-Périgord by Mary Wollstonecraft in her Vindication of the Rights of Woman, as a response to the Declaration of the Rights of Men? - Dotte uk 11:29, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * So is there any reason you don't want to write it yourself? - Jmabel | Talk 04:59, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

That's a bit tricky. Wollstonecraft's dedication was influenced by some of Talleyrand's comments. . . but they were actually the work of Germaine de Stael, his sometime lover/political ally. Talleyrand does have a reputation as an early supporter of women's causes, but its very hard to distinguish his opinions and actions from those of de Stael.

To write this accurately requires digging into the murkiness of just which comment of Talleyrand's Wollstonecraft was noting (I'm not clear on that) and whether or not this was actually his or de Stael's. Crocodilian (talk) 20:14, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

That was worse than a crime, it was a blunder.
Talleyrand did not say this and I have removed it. I have thought about mentioning in the article that the statement is commonly and erroneously attributed to him, but this seems a little silly. As Joseph Fouche (N's minister of police) in fact said this, it should go in the WP article on him. However, if anyone wants to mention the quote in this article, I would have no objections to adding it back, with proper attribution to Fouche. Also, if readded, the quote should be in the form in the cited source, as this is the way it is usually rendered in English. JChap (Talk) 03:15, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I would like to disagree with that. Emmanuel de Waresquiel, noted French historian, attributes the quote to Talleyrand. Where does this idea that it comes from Fouche comes from? - Habib Fanny, Ypsilanti, MI April 18th, 2007
 * Could you provide a cite for that? I don't know where I first got the "idea" that Fouche said this, but I verified it in the linked quote above. ObiterDicta ( pleadings • errata • appeals ) 17:20, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Like many of the bons mots of the day, this has been ascribed to more than one person. Talleyrand would have had more reason to view the killing of Enghien as a blunder than Fouche (as a deputy, Fouche had voted for the execution of Louis XVI, and as such the killing of Enghien was far from the blackest mark on his reputation). I note that many of the quotes that are ascribed to Talleyrand here are dubious. He was famous as a man who said many clever things, and as such all sorts of clever things that he did not say are attributed to him -- most famously "speech was given to man to conceal his thoughts". Solid sources for his quotes are his Memoires, the "Album Perdu", the Memoires of Chancellor Pasquier. Talleyrand was famous for his wit, and many people left memoires from this period, so there are a wealth of sources that have a page or two from a dinner with Talleyand. Crocodilian (talk) 06:44, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Prime Minister
Prime Minister is a fairly important position. Even though he did not hold the office long, I think it would be appropriate to comment on exactly when he acheived this office, any notable accomplishments (or a comment specifying that there were none) and the circumstances of his departure from the office. Any takers? Mdotley 17:43, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Burr
Is there any source for the aside about Aaron Burr? And why does it merit mention in the encyclopedia? - Jmabel | Talk 02:21, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

There needs to be a longer section on Talleyrand's American connections. He lived in the US from 1794-96, and was responsible for the XYZ Affair, and was a principle actor in what has been called the "Quasi-War" between France and the US. I have seen the Burr comment, I believe in the Journals of George Ticknor, but I will check. Talleyrand's comments about and relations with Americans of the period, given the importance of Franco-American relations during this period, are worthy of inclusion.

A propos of which, there should be something about his involvement in the Louisiana Purchase -- the most significant Franco-American diplomatic event of his career, and one which obviously has historical magnitude. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crocodilian (talk • contribs) 20:20, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Prince of Benevento
"Talleyrand was said to be vain: he kept on using his title, Prince of Benevento, after Napoleon was defeated, despite his principality being reincorporated into Italy. This irritated King Louis XVIII and his court."

Have removed this because it appears to be patently untrue. J.F. Bernard writes in a biography that after the Peace of Paris in 1814, Talleyrand stopped using the title of Prince of Benevento, as it would have represented him as a "son of the Revolution". He goes on to say that at the Congress of Vienna, Talleyrand called himself "Prince de Talleyrand", which would have been "considerably more respectable, in the eyes of legitimist [royal] Europe," than his previous title. This is from J.F Bernard's biography titled Talleyrand, published 1973, fn p. 368. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.173.12.40 (talk • contribs) 12 November 2006.
 * ...dropped the "Benevento" but retained the "Prince". This seems like a telling detail worth the briefest notice in the article. --Wetman 05:12, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * True. 203.173.12.40 10:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Prince of Benevento was a Napoleonic title, and Talleyrand did actually exercise authority in Benevento during the Napoleonic regime. But with the Congress of Vienna, Benevento reverted to Austrian rule-- the Austrians certainly weren't willing to recognize him as "Prince of Benevento". "Prince Talleyrand" was a sort of courtesy title, bestowed on him by Louis XVIII. . . it carried with it no lands, nor apparently any income, but maintained his social rank.

Crocodilian (talk) 22:35, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

2 changes that raise concern
I'll leave a note on the user talk page asking for citation, but if none is forthcoming, we should probably revert, since even if these were correct nothing in the previous version would actually have been wrong. - Jmabel | Talk 01:47, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * They might be genuine. From what I've read, Talleyrand was friends with Hamilton, though I don't know any more than that.Foraminifera 16:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Does this mean you intend to track down a citation? - Jmabel | Talk 05:09, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Duchess of Dino
Should mention be made of Talleyrand alleged affair with the Duchess of Dino, his niece?Can provide sources that make mention of it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.231.236.170 (talk) 02:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC).


 * At least on the borderline of worth a mention. Sources added here to the talk page make it an option to add it to the article (whereas without sources, clearly not). - Jmabel | Talk 06:44, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The relationship of Dorothea, Duchess of Dino, with Talleyrand could be characterized as many things, but "affair" doesn't do it. She was married to Edmond de Talleyrand, but acted as "hostess" for Talleyrand during the Congress of Vienna, and lived with him more or less continuously from 1820 up to his death in 1838. Historians debate whether the father of her daughter Pauline was Edmond, or Charles-Maurice, and we have no evidence that would allow us to say.

The Wikipaedia entry on Dorothea has good information and appropriate sources for this subject http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothea_von_biron

Crocodilian (talk) 18:54, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Another possible quote
Possibly y'all might want to include another quote:
 * "Above all, gentlemen, not the slightest zeal."

--Gwern (contribs) 15:53 29 January 2007 (GMT)


 * Sure. Set it in context, and show how it reveals Talleyrand' style of diplomacy. A list of isolated alleged quotes would not reveal encyclopedic thinking. --Wetman 04:15, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd avoid the "isolated bon mot" in writing history, particularly when the words had meaning to the speaker which they don't have now.

Its common to quote Talleyrand's disdain for "zeal", but the term didn't mean to him what it does to us in the early 21st century. Remember, he's using that term in a post-Revolutionary period, and "zeal" is a term very much associated with the Revolution (eg "revolutionary zeal"); his comment reflects his preference for Augustus' "Festina Lente" as the only appropriate mode of advance for a great nation, and his disdain for the amateurish and hyperactive statecraft of the Revolutionaries.

Crocodilian (talk) 16:09, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Calvino who?
A very recent edit makes reference to a "Calvino," but does not explain who Calvino is. Italo Calvino? The sentence is also not encyclopedic in either form or function. It should be deleted or rewritten. Zeno Izen 20:01, 8 July 2007 (UTC) The reference is indeed to Italo Calvino in Panorama Mese, from a blurb on the dustjacket of "The Ruin of Kasch."

Lousiana Purchase?
Talleyrand was instrumental in the negoations and treaty for the lousiana purchase, arguably the largest land purchase ever. ( 1M sq miles vs Alaska 1/2M Sq Mi. ) "'In his preliminary propositions Livingston lightly suggested to Talleyrand a cession of Louisiana to satisfy these claims; following it with the more serious demand that France should pledge observance of the Spanish concession to the Mississippi trade. This pledge Napoleon readily gave.'" - http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Louisiana_Purchase --Artoftransformation 06:30, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Prime Minister?
The infobox says he was the first Prime Minister of France, but this it not dicussed anywhere in the article? That doesn't make any sense! Kevlar67 22:44, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

More on foot
My biography of Talleyrand,Duff Gordon, 1932, which is shown in the article as a reference, states that his lameness was the result of an accident, and was not congenital. However, instead of substituting this information, I add it as another possibility. No fussin and fightin that way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lodgepole (talk • contribs) 18:00, 27 March 2009 (UTC) My contribution has been labelled "vandalism" and has been reverted. This I do not understand, since it does not repudiate what was already stated! Can anyone explain?

Duff Gordon's biography is old, and superceded by newer ones, most particularly Emanuel Waresquiel "Le Prince Immobile" (Paris:2003)

Comment: Gordon's 1932 work is presumably relying on Talleyrand's own account of his injury -- which he describes in his memoirs, and which is medically dubious (a negligent nursemaid is said to have carelessly set baby Charles-Maurice atop a chest, from which he fell and broke his leg; less likely than a congenital defect).

Wikipedia France has an appropriate discussion of this issue in their article

Cette version de son enfance est contestée par plusieurs biographes. Si Michel Poniatowski parle d'un pied bot de naissance, Emmanuel de Waresquiel va plus loin et affirme que Talleyrand souffre d'une maladie congénitale (un de ses oncles en étant affecté) et du syndrome de Marfan[10]. French Wikipedia entry

trans: "this version of his childhood [eg the "dropped from a chest" story] is contested by many biographers. If Michel Poniatowski speaks of a clubfoot at birth, Emmanuel de Waresquiel goes further and claims that Talleyrand suffered a congenital birth defect (one of his uncles was so affected) and Marfan Syndrome"

Crocodilian (talk) 19:52, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Move quotes to Wikiquotes
I note that the article is up to 13 quotes from Talleyrand; this is a little excessive, and it seems to me that they ought to be moved over to Wikiquote. --Gwern (contribs) 07:40 1 August 2009 (GMT)

I agree here. Talleyrand's bon mots are often mis-ascribed (it was known in his own lifetime that many of things he was "said to have said" were in fact said by someone else) and while colorful when accurate, aren't generally of much historical value. See my comments above on the "avoid zeal" quote for an example of this. The snarky witticism, though it may be fun, doesn't advance the discussion of a man who participated in the public life of his nation from the late 1770s to the late 1830s. A proper biography of Talleyrand needs a lot of careful historical writing; funny quotes, not so much. . So yes, move the quotes over to Wikiquote, and leave this article for documented history

Crocodilian (talk) 16:18, 8 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I am amazed that the lengthy quotes section is still there, nearly three years after somebody said that it should be moved. There is a page about Talleyrand on Wikiquote now. That's where the quotes belong and where more can be added. Are there any objections to deleting the section?--Simon Peter Hughes (talk) 14:35, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It has been a month and nobody has commented on this any further. I have been bold and removed the quotes section. It was not an act of vandalism because, as I said last month, Talleyrand already has a page on Wikiquote that is linked to from this article. The quotes belong on Wikiquote, not here.--Simon Peter Hughes (talk) 10:56, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Honours
I find that the Order of the Rue Crown, also known as the Order of the Crown of Saxony (I suppose I should construct a redirect) existed in only one class, as did the Prussian Order of the Black Eagle. The Order of the Sun is presumably the Qajar Persian order of that name, which seems to have been exclusively female. The Dutch source cited for these orders is unusually difficult to penetrate. J S Ayer (talk) 16:14, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I have decided not to construct the redirect of the Order of the Crown of Saxony. J S Ayer (talk) 01:24, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The Persian order is, I perceive, also impossible. This whole honours list needs to be reinvestigated. J S Ayer (talk) 02:57, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord - Pierre-Paul Prud'hon.jpg}} to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File: will be appearing as picture of the day on February 2, 2020. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2020-02-02. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:29, 23 January 2020 (UTC).

Antecedent of pronoun "he" is uncertain. Will the editor fix ambiguities?
Article says, "After Napoleon's defeat, he withdrew claims to the title "Prince of Benevento", but was created Duke of Talleyrand with the style "Prince de Talleyrand" for life, in the same manner as his estranged wife.[25]"
 * Who is "he"? As it reads it means, "After Napoleon's defeat, Napoleon withdrew claims", but that seems unlikely.
 * BTW, what does "in the same manner as his estranged wife" mean? As it reads it seems to mean, "Napoleon was created Duke of Talleyrand with the style 'Prince de Talleyrand,' which is what Josephine called herself!" Does the editor really mean that somebody's estranged wife had called herself a prince??? (PeacePeace (talk) 18:16, 23 August 2020 (UTC))

What is "Pitt's expulsion order"
Is it the Aliens Act 1793 ? Or something else ?

What was the precise reason for his expulsion ? (if it's known)

Perhaps the hatred of the tough French royalists against a Revolution-friendly emigrant ? Jcqrcd44 (talk) 18:30, 30 July 2023 (UTC)