Talk:Charles Mingus/Archive 1

Redirect
I think mingus should redirect to Charles Mingus. A Disambiguation page link could be added to the top of this page.

Old Link Trouble (Resolved)
I am a bit confused that when I typed 'Mingus' into the search box I was taken to the description of a tiny town in Texas with a population of 200 or so people rather than to one of the greatest monsters of jazz that has influenced millions if not billions of people. I now consider the Wikipedia search algorithm horribly flawed.

Good point -- I've modified the redirect page (it's not a problem with a search algorithm). Ferdinand Pienaar


 * Not a problem with the search engine, but a feature of the current structure of links and pages in the wikipedia database. This is in turn a result of the actions of wikipedia users. The best aspect of this feature is that it is easy to fix by anyone who thinks that there is something needing fixing. See Disambiguation, or just have a look at how I have changed the link in question.  Cheers, Andrew Kepert 08:01, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * PS Billions??? I think not.  Tens of millions, yes.  Hundreds of millions, maybe.
 * PPS Sorry Ferdinand - we are treading on each others toes. I have usurped your solution for mine, as it is also educational for the anonymous user.


 * No worries, mate.

Slight misnomer
from black gospel music

This is better phrased as African American gospel music. Saying Black gospel music can mean anything from the pygmies of Africa to the Massai, known of which, as far as my knowledge sing gospel that influenced Mr. Mingus.

NPOV
"Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus, although derivative of his earlier works, is a whole lot of fun."


 * Deleted (and the information about a character in a novel being named after Mingus - not relevant to the bassist himself). --Andrew Norman 15:09, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Misinformation deleted
Deleted the claim that Mingus Mountain was named after this musician after his death. The mountain was named in the 1880s.

Whales
I have restored the line I added a few days ago under "Death" about the mysterious appearance of 56 beached whales off the coast of Mexico on the day Mingus died (aged 56), which was inexplicably deleted despite being well attested elsewhere including by Mingus's own wife (see the Weekly Wire interview linked from the page).--Thoughtcat 13:25, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

weasel words
please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words This article has lot of them, esp. in the first paragraphs. Please try to write articles from a non-fan point of view :)


 * You're welcome to help. --(Mingus ah um 05:43, 16 May 2006 (UTC))

Audio clip
I don't know who or what that audio clip is, but it definitely occurs nowhere on Mingus Ah Um, so something is wrong. Kai 11:08, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

It would be nice to know about his personal life
I don't know anything about Charles Mingus, but was surprised to discover that his wife was responsible for the performance of his two hour posthumously discovered jazz work. He was married?? Another exampled: There's nothing in the article about WHY he might have had such a temper.

I read a lot about him in his book "beneath the underdog" (he's a hell of a writer, too FYI), unfortunately i don't have the time to write a paragraph, as it would be needed a little research, since it's a bit fictionalized... he says he was beat from his father, he talks about his loves and his childhood... a really good book. If someone has the time to do a paragraph about his personal life, please do it. (also, i'm italian, and as you can see, my english is not that good...) Sickboy3883 22:02, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Charlie?
I'm sure I read somewhere once that he did NOT like being referred to as Charlie.

I'm pretty sure about it too Sickboy3883 30 Oct 2006 (UTC)

Regardless of whether or not he preffered being called Charlie, if you look on the cover of "Tijuana Moods", the text reads: "Charlie Mingus, Tijuana Moods", which seems to suggest that he at least was also known by that name.

Calling him "Charlie" on Tijuana Moods is simply record company error. He did not like to be called Charlie. He called himself Charles in his own autobiography and consistently on his own albums. He also did not like the name "Baron" which was another record company attempt to give air of nobility to many musicians. --SparkleTelevision (talk) 16:08, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Regardless of whether or not he liked it, it was a name by which he was referred, therefore, we should mention it. ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive' 16:15, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

He was called other names he didn't like, too. Should we include them all? (joke) --SparkleTelevision (talk) 16:19, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Charlie Haden, Charlie Parker, Charles Mingus. Not Charlie. Binksternet (talk) 16:43, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Mingus's onstage destruction of an $800 bass
It's been there since 4 January, 2004, but I couldn't find any other reference to it on the Internet. Can anyone link to some story or news confirming this?

A citation was added, but it was from after January 4, 2004, and was written very much like the Wikipedia article. I assume it was copied from Wikipedia, and not the other way around. Please try to find anything that came before that date. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)
 * I've been looking for months and can find nothing that corroborates this. It appears to have originated on Wikipedia. I'm deleting it. The history of guitar smashing is well-documented from The Who to the present day and doesn't start with Mingus and the Animals.Clashwho 21:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Birth year
Two different birth years are in the article. Could the editors who contributed them provide citations? Constructive 22:05, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Ethnicity
"Mingus was born in Nogales, Arizona, but was raised largely in the Watts area of Los Angeles, California. His mother's paternal heritage was Chinese, while historical records indicate that his father was the illegitimate offspring of a bi-racial farmhand and his employer's white granddaughter"

If this is true, then is it really appropriate to have him in the 'African American musicians' category, if he is only... 1/8th African American?--h i s  s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 23:48, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Any more opinions on this? Reliable sources? I'm curious, and it'd help improve the article.--h i s  s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 09:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

He was very active on the civil rights scene, both protesting Rockefeller and Faubus with his songs "Just for Laughs, Saps" and "Fables of Faubus." Because of this he should be regarded as an African-American musician 67.170.105.233 (talk) 05:58, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Mingus Ah Um, Tijuana Moods etc.
I'm no historian, only a fan of Mingus' works, but I think that Mingus Ah Um and Tijuana Moods should be mentioned somewhere in addtion to the discography. Mingus Ah Um is constantly highly rated, certain sites considering it one of the top jazz albums and the iTunes music store considering it a classic album. It would be good to have at least something noting Mingus Ah Um and like albums in the biography at some point. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.239.238.229 (talk) 19:16, 3 May 2007 (UTC).


 * I agree. It's odd there's a whole section named Mingus Ah Um, but no discussion of the album itself. I had to read the section twice to make sure I wasn't missing something! Rm999 (talk) 04:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup
I am not remotely a Mingus expert, which may ironically make me a useful person to say...that this article seems to need some cleanup. It did not read very well, especially the way its sections & even individual sentences are organized. Things seemed to jump around a fair amount. I am adding the cleanup tag and hope that people who know more about him than I do (which is almost nothing) will look into tidying it up. --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 14:50, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Children, Wives, Etc.
I'm no Mingus expert, but it is at least worth mentioning that before Sue Mingus, Charles also had a long-time partner who by and large managed his career for a little while (her name escapes me right now, but I'll come back to this entry when I'm not slacking off at work.) In addition, I feel that Sue's role in Charles' life needs more description in this article.

Another note on Charles' personal life: in the popular documentary, both women who were long-time partners of Charles' discuss Charles' father's infidelity with his mother and how this deeply affected Charles. There is a point that sticks with me when Sue mentioned, "He needed a lot of reassurance. From women." This sort of sensitivity is really powerful and is worth mentioning.

Charles also has several children, from what I understand. In the documentary, one of his sons describes Charles speaking to all of them on his death bed and telling them, "You are no color." It was very beautiful. Does anyone remember this?

More later--

Her name was Celia

Claim that Epitaph is his masterpiece?
The entry claims that many experts say Mingus' masterpiece is Epitaph, but I have never heard anyone say that. I think more evidence, in the form of quotes or references, is required. There isn't even a Mingus-directed recording of the piece! I say remove the claim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.119.194.141 (talk) 18:41, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

1962's Town Hall concert on Blue Note was a Mingus-directed attempt to record Epitaph. Gunther Schuller says Epitaph is: “Among the most important, prophetic, creative statement in the history of jazz.” and the New Yorker said: “It marks the first advance in the composition of large-scale jazz works since Duke Ellington’s 1943 “Black, Brown and Beige…” (The New Yorker Jazz: Mingus Regained; August 21, 1989 by Whitney Balliett). There's a full page of quotes here: http://mingusmingusmingus.com/MingusBands/epitaph.html--SparkleTelevision (talk) 19:56, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Discography omissions
Mingus! (1960, Candid) and Town Hall Concert (1964, Original Jazz Classics) 75.7.17.213 (talk) 05:47, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Mingus discography article?
Is it time that we created a separate article for a complete Mingus discography? There has been some dispute here on the talk page about the discography, so perhaps a separate article would be a good idea? --- RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  18:41, 1 January 2008 (UTC)