Talk:Charles Montier

Links, redirects, interwiki
I haven't yet looked for unlinked mentions of Montier on the English Wikipedia, so numbers here will likely increase. Certainly the number of links to Charles Montier will increase (currently 4 from articles, but he has a full paragraph in 1923 24 Hours of Le Mans, for example, and no link).

Redirects will be needed from Montier & Gillet (4 incoming links from articles), Charles Montier et Cie, Montier Special (also a useful search term).

Interwiki (presumably is taken care of by WikiData); leaving links here to help find references:

Charles Montier

 * French
 * German
 * Polish
 * Commons

Charles Montier et Cie

 * German

--kingboyk (talk) 22:13, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Interwiki was semi-manual - just had to associate with frwiki and the rest were picked up automatically due to the existing WikiData entry. Clever stuff! --kingboyk (talk) 07:34, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Look into
--kingboyk (talk) 03:37, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
 * "Non-renewal of his contract by Ford in 1934"
 * Other people racing Montier cars
 * Any info on the Model A? Was that the basis of the Montier Specials entered into the Grand Prix? Model T ended production in 1927; Model A was produced between 1927 and 1931. The grand prix entries were 1930 to 1934 or 1935. --kingboyk (talk) 02:24, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * His son Ferdinand Montier also raced Montier Specials (a starting point is here), but I'm not sure we'd want to go into any great detail as this article is about Montier Senior and not the car or his son. Will perhaps squeeze in a reference. --kingboyk (talk) 06:19, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Done. Brief mention of Ferdinand added, with citations. He is wikilinked as he is presumed notable under WP:NMOTORSPORT #2. --kingboyk (talk) 06:27, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * The Montier Special entered into the Belgian Grand Prix (and presumably other grand prix) was indeed based on the Model A. Info and citation added. --kingboyk (talk) 08:34, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * There's at least one non-Montier driven Special in the Hill Climb Winners list I've referenced but don't think it worth mentioning in the article. I haven't found any mention of Montier cars appearing in notable races when not driven by either Charles or Ferdinand (or their co-drivers).
 * I'm fairly certain that Montier's relationship with Ford was terminated in 1934 but can't find a hard enough reference (I have no access to books or period newspapers/magazines). Again, I think it's not important. If anyone could add a reference for that and his retirement it might be nice.
 * I think my work here is ✅. --kingboyk (talk) 17:50, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Assessment
as you requested over at my talk page I provided a quick review (I can go more detailed if you want) and it looks good. The one major(ish) thing missing from the article is race results tables. Soemthing like this would be sufficent. Adding this might be sufficent to up it to C class. SSSB (talk) 09:55, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks SSSB, much appreciated. I'll look at adding a results table. Ideally I'd like to get the article to at least B-class, and time permitting, maybe even GA, so if you have a moment I would indeed be interested if you could expand on what else you might feel is missing or not up to standard. I'm not sure there's much more to add from the reference material available, but if I know what's wrong I can at least try to fix it.


 * There's no rush if you're busy as something has come up in real life at this end and I don't know if I'll be around or not for a while.


 * Again, thank you. --kingboyk (talk) 10:43, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Racing results added for Le Mans and the European Championship. Presumably we wouldn't want tables for the non-championship grand prix and I'm certain we wouldn't want them for the non-notable hill climbs and so on.
 * That said, I'd be happy to add a table for the non-championship grand prix and grandes epreuves, but I note that 1) DriverDB doesn't list them, 2) The articles for Louis Chiron, Albert Divo, and René Dreyfus don't have tables for these so I assume (perhaps rightly, perhaps wrongly) that we should only have tables for championship races. [Incidentally, French Wikipedia claims that Montier finished 3rd in the 1935 Orléans Circuit, but there are no citations and our article is red linked; I've not found any sources for this yet, so if I did add a table for "Non-Championship Grand Prix" it would not be labelled "Complete" :)]
 * I've also added some more information about the Model T and some additional references. --kingboyk (talk) 04:55, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually, http://www.kolumbus.fi/ have an article which covers the Orléans race. I was reluctant to cite them at first as I don't recognise the name as an established journal etc, but they're widely cited throughout the pre-war motorsport articles on Wikipedia and it appears their work is very well researched and well regarded so I now believe they qualify as a reliable source. --kingboyk (talk) 05:05, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * And it looks like I have more work to do, as there's more info about Montier on that site. --kingboyk (talk) 05:59, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm going to try and finish this today, and then I'll be asking for a reassessment. Please nobody reassess just yet as my late discovery of additional reliable sources means there is a little more work to do. --kingboyk (talk) 04:03, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
 * SSSB or anyone else who'd like to help: the article has been massively expanded since the first review, and I think I'm done; a new review would be appreciated.
 * Please note the link to Ferdinand Montier will be turning blue shortly; I'm just waiting on some help at Commons about whether some Public Domain photos I found can be uploaded. If they are allowed, one will be added here too. --kingboyk (talk) 17:59, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Grand Prix engines
engines: research from kolumbus unless stated: 1929 ? 1930-1931 3.3L S4 (Ford A) 1932 Picardy - still the 3.3L. La Baule (Ferdinand only) - TWO engines. Oh yes. 1933 (Ferdinand) Dieppe - Ford V8 http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/gp3311.htm#44 [plausible, as Ford were making a V8 as of 1932] La Baule double engined DNA http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/gp3312.htm#54 1934 Belgium "based on a Ford V8" (just the engine, or was there a new chassis?). GP de l´U.M.F. doesn't say. 1935 Orleans = possibly double-engined. Lorraine: probably the V8. --kingboyk (talk) 08:15, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Autosport forum thread
Whilst the forum thread itself of course cannot be referenced or considered a reliable source, it does appear to point to some other sources. It also has a discussion about whether the Montiers were French or Belgian, with the consensus appearing to be that they were indeed French. This is already established by the sources I have referenced, but at least one Wikipedia article had them listed as Belgian until corrected it. --kingboyk (talk) 08:54, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Navboxes
None of been added because judging by such articles as Tom Kristensen (racing driver) and Rudolf Caracciola the navboxes ought to include the article they appear on (correct me if I'm wrong). Montier isn't on any templates as he didn't win anything ;)

I'm content that we have an adequate number of links in the article already which would satiate the appetite of even the most interested reader. --kingboyk (talk) 07:54, 2 February 2020 (UTC)