Talk:Charles Olson

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This article is part of WikiProject Poetry. Please see that page for details.

I would like to discuss the start of a page for The Maximus Poems, in particular, with links to Wikipedia articles on referenced subjects by page number. For an example of what I mean, see the list of references section of the page for Foucault's Pendulum. Any other Olson fans want to do this with me? Snakespeare 23:38, 10 October 2006 (UTC) see a similar treatment of Foucault's Pendulum

JOINED THE ACLU?
You mean, he became a member of the ACLU? Why does this merit a mention? Is this a joke?

Adam Holland 21:23, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

attacking the trivia section
The trivia section was flagged a few years ago as being un-wikipedian, and while I don't want to endorse an overly narrow notion of what belongs here, there are some details that don't seem to fit in this article. Someone has taken the trouble to type up this long anecdote, but it seems to have more to do with Olson's students than him... can anyone find a better place for this material?


 * There is a great story about Olson, his green-and-white 1956 Chevrolet station wagon, and two of his students, Jack Clarke and Robert Hogg (Hogg was from Alberta and a poet himself; he later taught modern and postmodern poetry at Carleton University in Ottawa, Canada.) Olson moved to Gloucester, Mass., but left his Chevy wagon in Buffalo where he taught. The car was filled with many of Olson’s personal articles. Clarke regarded it nearly a sacred duty to get this vehicle and its contents intact to the great poet. The car wasn't working well, but Hogg agreed to drive it if Clarke would accompany him.  The automatic transmission was slipping badly, in fact needed replacing, but the two students hoped that once they reached the interstate the wagon would carry on to Gloucester. However, when they reached New Canaan on the Massachusetts-New York border, they discovered that a front wheel bearing was heating up excessively. They limped into a repair shop on a Saturday afternoon only to discover that the owner did not have the proper bearing and couldn't get one until the following week. The students did not want to remain in New Canaan several days awaiting the repair. It turned out that the shop owner had for sale a green-and-white 1956 Chevy wagon exactly like Olson's, but with a standard transmission. He was willing to sell this car for $300, just about what it would have cost to repair the wheel bearing and transmission of Olson’s car.  Clarke blanched at the idea of replacing the car without permission, and was concerned that Olson probably could not drive a standard-shift (Olson was a notoriously bad driver). Hogg agreed to take full responsibility for making the exchange in the name of expediency; the replacement vehicle was in better shape all round than Olson's, so this helped in making the decision. The two students paid cash for the car, took off Olson’s plates, put them on the new vehicle, and headed on to Gloucester with the surrogate station wagon now stuffed with Olson’s personal belongings. When they arrived in Gloucester, Olson, accustomed to a sort of strict obeisance from his students, was astonished at Hogg's  brazenness—and that they had found an exact replica of his car except for the transmission. Hogg explained that the switch had been done in the spirit of getting Olson's typewriter and other effects to Gloucester on time, and that the deal had saved money in the end. Olson ceded to the wisdom of the switch knowing he was getting a better car. He eventually learned to drive the stick shift.

-- Doom (talk) 00:33, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

and other modernists
This is a great list of modernists, but seemed excessively long for the purpose at hand. Maybe this could be mined for raw material for Modernism? "Pound, Williams, D.H. Lawrence, Henry Miller, Stravinsky, Glenn Gould, Georgia O'Keefe, Frida Kahlo, Cartier-Bresson, Andre Kertez, Kandinsky, Picasso, Marsden Hartley, Brancusi, Boccioni, Marinetti, Chaplin, Keaton, D. W. Griffith, G.W. Pabst, Fritz Lang, Orson Welles, John Grierson, Frank Lloyd Wright, etc., etc." -- Doom (talk) 00:41, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Maximus finished?
The article states at least twice (with 1 verifying source) that The Maximus Poems was completed shortly before C.O.'s death; but the current final sentence of the  The Maximus Poems  section refers to "The final, unfinished volume..." I trust that someone who knows something about the topic can clarify this discrepancy. Phil wink (talk) 21:13, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * That's well spotted. A Guide to The Maximus Poems of Charles Olson By George F. Butterick gives a lot of background to the creation of the final volume, to the effect that Olson was immersed in compiling it when he died. When Olson found out he had cancer, he instructed his literary executor Charles Boer to go ahead and publish the volume, though Olson had not specified exactly which poems were to be included.
 * "All the evidence indicates the volume was a developing organism until its final publication. It was not to reach its ultimate form until the summer of 1968, when Olson corrected and returned the proofs to Barry Hall in London. Knowing this, knowing there had been this path or process gave confidence to the editors asked to form the final volume out of the materials left behind at the poet's death."


 * Other sources such as the University of Illinois poetry project, The Oxford Companion to Twentieth-century Poetry in English (1994), the Academy of American Poets and New Directions publishers support the position that the volume was unfinished. I suspect the confusion comes because both view points are true. The poems may have been finished, the material was ready, but the whole process was not concluded.


 * The source given in the current WP article that states he finished it, is a strong one, published by the Olson archive at University of Connecticut. I think it's best to give the detail, explaining the nuanced state of affairs. I hope that answers your questions. Thanks for flagging it up. Best wishes Span (talk) 22:36, 15 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Span, you asked me to comment on the revision. Most importantly, I truly don't know anything about this, other than what's in the article, and what you've provided above. Having said that, your edits strike me as having solved the problem both diplomatically and accurately.
 * Not to keep your nose to the grindstone, but... the article says (of The Maximus Poems) "In 1950, inspired by the example of Pound's Cantos (though Olson denied any direct relation..." Given that TMP appears to be a sprawling but piecemeal lyrical epic that juxtaposes deep history against the modern day using an Eastern US town as a metaphor for history and humanity, how is it possible that WCW's Patterson (parts of which, at least, were published by 1950) is not considered a primary inspiration? Phil wink (talk) 02:54, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Letters for Origin
I have the London (Cape Goliard) paperback edition of Letters for Origin, which on the front cover has the subtitle "1950-1955" although on the title page "1950-1956". There are 141 numbered pages and the final item (on page 141) is dated "Nov 8 56". There is no date of publication; the copyright date is 1969. Errantios (talk) 06:47, 23 August 2022 (UTC)