Talk:Charley horse

Water Buffalo?
In the 'Other languages' section of the article, there's a reference to 'Central Italy' and it links to a page called 'Water Buffalo', which I assume that people in Central Italy don't actually say 'Water Buffalo', they would say something more in their own language/dialect, which isn't going to be English. Would someone be able to update this with verifiable information? 2601:2C6:4003:E9C6:3D19:89EC:C5F9:E6DC (talk) 06:43, 27 March 2016 (UTC)Nekot

Bizarre
This article weaves cramps, spasms, bruising (contusion), and paraesthesia (pins-and-needles) into a confusing narrative. It needs major revision 14.202.132.63 (talk) 00:50, 10 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Not to mention lines like "The condition is popular among hockey players." No, nothing at all wrong with that sentence. --Elmyr (talk) 23:53, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Another observation on the bizarre nature of this poorly written article: "They are also a common complaint during pregnancy while elderly." I had a good chuckle at this. I just wanted to point out that this last sentence in the first paragraph does not make any sense at all. I followed all the links from the note number seven. I still haven't found anything about elderly women becoming pregnant. Unless you are referring to the the "Bible story" of Abraham's wife Sarah, elderly women do not become pregnant. Menopause typically occurs between the mid/late 40s - mid/late 50s, a time well before the term "elderly" applies. Perhaps some one could direct me to an article which explains how an elderly woman can become pregnant. It is a sad day when Wikipedia can be so inaccurate and confusing.

I think perhaps the author intended to relay the two very different facts that leg cramps are associate with both pregnancy AND age (but not at the same time). This sentence implies that that elderly pregnant people complain about leg cramps. Find me an elderly pregnant person and I would love to ask them. Until then, this sentence should be removed. Although, honestly, the whole article is so poorly written, I think the whole thing should really be removed.

"They are also a common complaint during pregnancy while elderly." HA!


 * This is why every category of article needs someone with good sense, or editorial experience, or even what Larry used to call "expertise". --Uncle Ed (talk) 13:34, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Spasm not contusion
I believe the term contusion is incorrect. The muscle spasms from the impact and can contract into a "cramp". This isn't a contusion where blood leaves the local vessels from either an immune response or from damage. So I think it is more accurate to call this a impact induced spasm of the quad. Thoughts?


 * Howto section on treatment removed per wiki guidlines and contusion changed to muscle spasm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.173.158.201 (talk) 22:28, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Misquoted reference
Second paragraph says "The term "charley horse" should never be used to describe simple painful muscle cramps in the leg or foot, especially those that follow strenuous exercise, this is simply a cramp.[5][6][1]"

However the cited pages all say that a charlie horse IS a leg cramp..

Ref #5: http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=charley+horse

"S: (n) charley horse, charley-horse (a muscular cramp (especially in the thigh or calf) following vigorous exercise) "

Ref #6: http://www.mercksource.com/pp/us/cns/cns_hl_dorlands_split.jsp?pg=/ppdocs/us/common/dorlands/dorland/two/000019860.htm

"charley horse (chahr´le hors)  popular term for soreness and stiffness in a muscle, especially the quadriceps femoris muscles, due to overstrain or contusion."

Ref #1: http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-cha1.htm

"It refers to a painful involuntary cramp in an arm or leg muscle, usually that of an athlete, as a result of a muscular strain or a blow."

How did the page come to say that a charlie horse *shouldn't* be considered a cramp when all three sources say the exact opposite? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neoform (talk • contribs) 05:33, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * "A is a B" does not necessarily mean that "B is an A". A 'Charley Horse' is one kind of a cramp - one caused by a blow. There are other kinds of cramp ! --87.194.174.252 (talk) 11:50, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

can we get a laymans explanation
maybe have a technical section and a laymans explanation

Layman's explanation:

Excuse my ignorance, but is all this medical gobbldegook merely describing a corked thigh?

A corkie? Is THAT all this is?


 * I imagine the questioner is not American. This sounds like another name for what in years past was called a "charley horse" in the US. Sfahey 03:00, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I would also like to see this article in less technical terms. Maybe something that wasn't copied from About.com? PrometheusX303 01:04, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Before making such accusations of plagiarism, consider the alternative: your alleged "source," one of many sites who pilfer wiki-work, is the plagiarist here, .Sfahey 15:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * MY apologies, Sfahey. I may have been a bit hasty with that.  I can see that this article was not directly copied, but seems to be written originally.  AAMOF, I looked at the copyright info, and either it wasn't there before, or I failed to see this: This is the "GNU Free Documentation License" reference article from the English Wikipedia  I will lean towards the latter. PrometheusX303 22:24, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

It's from potassium deficiency, isn't it? At least the cramping kind? That's what I've always been told. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.102.186.24 (talk) 15:11, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I was always told it was from a calcium deficiency - and that a charley horse was the specific kind of spasm/cramp that I experience at night. Hard to describe the difference, but I think most people differentiate regular leg cramps from 'charley horses', which are more sudden and intense and, uh, specific? And I was told that those kind are due to a lack of calcium. We need a doctor here! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.35.147.201 (talk) 16:42, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

answerbag.com link
The link to answerbag.com seems not very reputable. What does it add to the article? It only seems to be a site that lets people write in their answers to questions -- not up to Wikipedia's standards, seemingly. I will be bold and remove the link. -Phoenixrod 08:05, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm with you on this one. Read the "answers" to this question.  Two are correct, but the "top answer" is wrong.  PrometheusX303 13:16, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

dead leg?
i arrived at this article via a redirect from dead leg; personally, i feel a dead leg has more in common with pins and needles than a charley horse. a dead leg is characterised by reduced or no feeling in the leg, as perhaps caused by a pinched nerve from crossed legs, or by a punch in the correct place upon the thigh; i associate a charley horse on the other hand with pain as opposed to numbness. --Kaini 04:40, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I redirected dead leg. When someone says their leg (or arm) is "dead" or "asleep", they usually mean no feeling.  A charley horse causes great pain.  Prome  theus  -X303-  07:14, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What is in question here is not "my leg went dead", but the noun phrase "dead leg". In the US, coaches and trainers ("physios") use the latter to refer to the very painful thigh bruise we used to call a "charley horse" and the Brits call a "corkie".
 * This is correct. I re-redirected "dead leg" to here. Sfahey 15:51, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I'd never heard that term before.  Maybe the redirect should be changed, and at this article should have something like for numbness in the extremities, see Paresthesia?  Prome  theus  -X303-  22:49, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm from north east England and I'd like to say that dead leg is the term used (aswell as a dead arm). School children normal punch others in the upper arm to give dead arms, a quick knee to the thigh is used to give dead legs. Cardboard boxA 16:23, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

'Dead leg' is a common injury in soccer in the UK, e.g. "York midfielder Steve Bowey was brought off after 25 minutes of the draw with Stafford with a dead leg but has trained this week and is fit to play." (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_conf/6555493.stm) There is a description at http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/hi/sa/treatment_room/features/newsid_2131000/2131683.stm --Malcolmxl5 10:06, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm English and although I can imagine a dead leg being very possible in soccer, no way can I see it being common. The article is wrong though, a dead leg or arm is the effect of a strike to it resulting in no feeling (not until much later) but it sounds very much like a charley horse is painful cramp. 82.0.92.218 (talk) 21:06, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

WPMED assessment
I assessed this article B class. The article still needs a much clearer lead. Some specific comments. The term is still very much in use in North America, where it refers two different things:


 * 1) In my experience it is not used for a contusion of the quadriceps muscle, but rather refers to a cramp of that muscle during sports play;  I have seen it often in soccer players.


 * 1) The other use refers to a sudden excruciating cramp that usually occurs at night, during sleep, and in the calf muscle.  This causes the person to abruptly wake and leap (or try to leap) out of bed.

--Una Smith (talk) 20:16, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've used and heard the term used for what the Brits call a "corkie" since 1964, as both an athlete and a physician. It is one of those terms like "runners' knee", which meant something quite specific at first (in that case, iliotibial band syndrome) but which when misused (for patello-femoral syndrome) for a more common condition unfortunately perpetuates itself. Same thing with "comprise" and "compose". I'll check out the intro., which first appeared when I started this article a couple of years ago. Sfahey (talk) 17:05, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's Australians who call it a 'corkie' - http://www.mydr.com.au/default.asp?article=4297 Hakluyt bean (talk) 16:24, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

re 5/18 edit
The article has since its inception acknowledged that the term is used for two different conditions in the US. The definition in the reference cited in the 4/29 edit is clearly not written by a person knowledgeable in this area, as it confounds the two conditions in a misguided attempt to provide unity. (i.e., a "contusion" results from a direct blow, not from "strenuous" exertion. Also see my comment of 11/26,above. Reference 2 in the current article gives a splendid illustrated of the "dead leg" described in soccer players; THIS is what "charley horse" (as in the kick of horse) originally referred to. Sfahey (talk) 21:05, 18 May 2008 (UTC) (physician specializing in sports medicine)

Give yourself a charley horse
Yeah. [HRWiki:unnatural] Do it! RocketMaster (talk) 14:00, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Article contains incorrect information?!
I'm not a native speaker, otherwise I would change it boldly myself, but I'm under the impression that the article is plain wron in an import aspect. Consequently it should be interwikied to de:Wadenkrampf and not de:Pferdekuss. And the other synonyms offered have to be checked and sorted which describe the cramp and which describe the contussion.
 * "Charley horse" is the colloquial term for a cramp (spasm), but not (or only in few cases of abuse of the term) for a contussion.

--Pjacobi (talk) 12:44, 3 October 2010 (UTC)


 * See for example this link: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002066.htm --Pjacobi (talk) 12:47, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, the Swedish term lårkaka ("thigh cake") refers just to the contusion/a big, ugly, painful bruise. I'll remove it from the other languages list. W n C? 07:31, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, puujalka ("wooden leg") doesn't mention anything about cramping, either. Removed that, too. W n C? 10:24, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The Chicago White Sox were not founded until 1901, so it would be hard for a horse to be working at their ballpark in the 1890's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:C0:C100:7EB0:917C:2D5B:4D3C:E20A (talk) 05:26, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

how to and instructio
I did what i could to help remove how to content but i cant do anymore without vandalism..Ploxboy119 (talk) 02:11, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Necessary?
Is it necessary for Charley horse to be its own article? I think a redirect to Cramp would be fine. ITasteLikePaint (talk) 01:20, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Remedies
The current section regarding remedies needs deletion or far better references. The link currently referenced does not really support the statement made. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.239.74.220 (talk) 11:16, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Term or topic
Is this a Wiktionary entry explaining the meaning of the term "charley horse"? 

Or is it an article about the topic of leg cramps? --Uncle Ed (talk) 13:36, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Split article into two
It seems like the problem with this article can be solved by splitting it ("May refer to:"), since it can refer to the very distinct issues of contusion and muscle cramp. It may have the same name in American English, but that doesn't mean it is the same phenomenon.

It gets especially clear that the article is mixed up in the etymology section when "this" (Charley horse) is translated to different languages, e.g. Swedish/Norwegian refers to the contusion meaning, and in French it refers to the muscle cramp. The mix of descriptions and treatments for the two issues is extremely confusing without splitting the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.22.45.0 (talk) 16:34, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

In German it refers to a haematom due to blunt trauma (knee to thigh i.e.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:4C:6D78:7501:E0D0:9740:5A9D:CB08 (talk) 10:03, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

"Egg" as a measure of (presumably) time?
"(..) typically lasting anywhere from a 3 egg to about 10 egg. (..)"

Is this a very obscure term or just vandalism? 83.83.126.64 (talk) 23:34, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

is this real?
Is this an actual thing that deserves an article, or just the weird American name for a muscle spasm that could be a redirect (or just, not exist but mention the name) for an article on muscle spasms? 2A00:23C6:ED81:4900:2063:5FAD:DF70:456F (talk) 04:18, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Etymology

 * Is there any record of history of use of the expression, or what the name Charley or a horse has to do with the condition? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 14:48, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * See charley horse and http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-cha1.htm . Anthony Appleyard (talk) 20:52, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Peculiar wording in first paragraph
"A charley horse is a painful involuntary cramp in the legs and/or foot..." This is as opposed to painful voluntary cramp? I'm no physician, but I didn't think it was possible to will oneself to have a cramp. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CLSwiki (talk • contribs) 19:23, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Permanent dead link
The sole external link, , is dead. I checked:


 * archive.org
 * archive.is
 * pubmed/duckduckgo/google/scihub using the reference PMHT0024514
 * pubmed/duckduckgo/google using the title in quotes

Supply a different link? Simply remove the whole section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.147.141.201 (talk) 02:33, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Causes
The article suggests all the causes of cramp are endogenous. I can get a leg cramp from bracing myself with my leg muscles e.g. sitting in a kayak and bracing my knees for stability; the cramp fades after a bit of stretching and does not recur (so not caused by blood supply being cut off etc.) but happens every time I canoe! Also from adopting a similar stance anywhere else. 80.7.168.14 (talk) 14:37, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Two different topics?
Why is this article seemingly a combination of two different things? It's not really made clear why "dead leg" and "Charley horse" are combined Bovianchovy (talk) 03:40, 1 April 2024 (UTC)