Talk:CharlieCard

Stuff that was said before there were any headings
I took out the whole schedule thing, because now that it's March, most of what it said was clearly untrue. I would say in general, never believe anything the MBTA says about when things are going to happen. Or, assume it will take twice as long as they say it will. Foxmulder 01:28, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

All this, and yet nobody has pictures of the card? Pacific Coast Highway July 5, 2005 05:02 (UTC)

one word
The MBTA Web site spells CharlieCard and CharlieTicket as one word each ... ironic, since somebody turned CharlieCard into a redirect to this page. We'll have to fix that. - DavidWBrooks 00:11, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Fixed it. Foxmulder 00:34, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

MBTA vs. Wiki
I think it's funny how the MBTA website had NO warning about the CharlieTicket being @ South Station and in fact still doesn't list it as working there. Yet on the implimentation list here someone has already changed it. Go figure.

Despite that, I was there this afternoon and they did have quite a few people helping out, seemed to go fairly well from a casual observer despite obvious lack of information given to the public.

JS


 * I use South Station every weekday, and they actually did put out signboards a week ahead of time. -- Beland 01:48, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I think it may be time to take the dates out of the "Coming Soon" section, since they have so far proven to be way, way off. I know it says "approximate," but Quincy Center and Wollaston were both done weeks before transitworks.org said they were supposed to be, so those dates are pretty much useless. They even got the order wrong; North Quincy was supposed to be before those two, but it hasn't been done yet. Still, far be it from me to complain about the T getting something finished early for once :) Foxmulder 17:23, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Sigh...of course after I said that there haven't been any new stations finished for AFC. Hope I didn't jinx it... Foxmulder 23:31, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps if the MBTA would plan with it's contractors and release some time information on their website people wouldn't rely on WiKi, TransitWorks, and message boards to get their "information" (which is usually not right either). --Sabourinj 12:21, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I use Back Bay very frequently, and have seen new infrastructure (frame work for walls) and a banner saying Charlie was coming soon. Perhaps someone could verify independently that the station will soon have AFC implemented? that's what it looks like, from observation. Raj Fra 02:26, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I haven't seen Back Bay listed on anything I've seen. However if the past is any indication, anything is possible. --Sabourinj 03:21, 15 April 2006 (UTC


 * Could someone confirm that the Silver Line now has "New farebox on all buses (accepts cash/coin, CharlieTicket/Card, tokens)"?--agr 23:54, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've ridden the Silver Line several times, and that's true (if the fareboxes are working). -- Beland 01:48, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

August 2006 rewrite
I did a mild rewrite/reorganization of the article. Anyone who has questions about why I did what I did, just ask. Geoff.green 01:46, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Back Bay Charliecard
Although I haven't seen any official word on Back Bay joining CharlieCard, I think walking past 10 fareboxes (Dartmouth St. entrance) this evening is official enough. I debated whether to put it under active, but probably that should be reserved for when their up and running (my guess is in the next week) --Raj Fra 04:19, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Minor point re: charlieCard availability
I had written that CharlieCards were "generally" available only to senior citizens, etc, which was taken out. I added the generally because I assume there are some folks who have them, if only for testing purposes (e.g., perhaps there are some MBTA staff who use them for their daily commute as a test project), and so I didn't want to say definitelvely that they were "only" available to senior citizens or TAP ID holders. Geoff.green 13:28, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Geoff - I like the public terminology you used. It is much clearner than "generally" which is why I removed that in the first place.  Now if only whoever keeps taking active stations off the active list would go away.... --Sabourinj 02:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Why not "talk" to that editor on their usertalk page and ask them to stop editing errors into the article?


 * Atlant 14:08, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Sabourinj, and agreed. Geoff.green 03:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually Reloading?
I wonder if anyone else has noticed this, but when I reload a CharlieTicket, the FVM actually eats the old CharlieTicket and prints a new one, with a later expiration date. I'm wondering if this is happening to other people, and if so would it then be right to say that balance remaining on a CharlieTicket can be applied to the purchase of a new one instead of simply reloading? Knowing Is Half The Battle 23:28, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, this is indeed how it works. However, it is effectively the same as reloading and I believe the MBTA refers to it as "reloading."  I think saying "applied to the purchase of a new one" would sort of complicate things; how about leaving it as "reloading" but adding a note that what really happens is that a new ticket is printed. Foxmulder 23:37, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It's still better than dropping cards (presumably ones with $0 left on them..) on the floor after going through the gate. In other cities which use similar systems, I've seen turnstyles "eat" tickets with no remaining value.  Sommerfeld 14:46, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Kenmore Station
Thanks Geoff for re-adding Kenmore, from the history it looks like I removed it when I moved Hynes. Must not have slept enough that day!

Do you know anything about the conversion at this station? I thought it was scheduled to be soon, but I haven't seen any AFC specific work (just the station construction) and it isn't listed on any of the MBTA posters as coming soon.
 * Don't know -- I was just reputting it on there, and I don't know anything else about the station. Perhaps we should delete? Geoff.green 16:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Don't Believe the MBTA Website!!!
Please, do not believe anything it says on the MBTA website, especially the Converted Stations page. The Converted Stations page is almost never correct. If you see an addition on that page, investigate it yourself. Go to the actually station and check it out.

Converted Bus Routes
The MBTA Website does not provide information specifically on any bus routes that are converted. As a matter of fact, they outline in a disclaimer that buses are routinely redeployed where needed, and not just assigned to a particular route. Also, since there are so many bus routes, and they are just numbers or letters that noone who doesn't use that specific route will know (i.e. I only recognize routes 1 and 39), perhaps this section should be reworked. While the information is great, we should ensure that this article is informing to those who may not use the MBTA bus system ever, as opposed to simply copying the content from the MBTA website. Raj Fra 02:16, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Valid points, but I'm not sure what else we should do. We could link to each route's description in Wikipedia or on the MBTA web site, or perhaps put the info in parentheses after each route number, but both would take a lot of work that I (for one) don't want to do, largely because it's going to be obsolete in about a month once all the buses are converted. Geoff.green 23:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I don't really think it's a big deal. Honestly, people who don't use the MBTA bus system ever probably don't care which bus routes have the new fareboxes.  It's mainly for actual riders, so they will know what to expect.  Also, yes there is a disclaimer, but  buses are (as far as I know) usually only redeployed to different routes within the same garage.  Several garages have been completely converted, which is how we know that most of these routes are definitely fully converted.  Foxmulder 06:12, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Once either the Bennett, Charlestown, Fellsway, or North Cambridge garages get converted, then we'll have to worry. Those garages frequently "borrow" each other's buses.  The Lynn and Quincy garages are pretty much isolated from the rest of the system.  We don't have to worry about those two. AznShortBoi8021 22:54, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Cocaine
Did the officials who decided on "CharlieCard" know of the slang usage of the word "Charlie" for cocaine, I wonder ? Although Charlie as a synonym for cocaine is chiefly in British usage and not - I presume at present anyway - in Boston, it does make the CharlieCard sound like a cross between a storef value card for making cocaine purchases and/or a card designed to cut lines of cocaine.

Great name, but not exactly what Boston officialdom was no doubt expecting. I confidently look forward to the slang usage of Charlie for cocaine to spread to Boston now, if only for amusements sake in these dull times.--!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ordew (talk • contribs)


 * Every word in the English language is used as a slang term for some drug/violence/sex act by some subgroup somewhere in the world. Avoiding them all would reduce us to American Sign Language - which no doubt has the same problem. - DavidWBrooks 23:26, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

CharlieCard availability -- November or 2007?
Today the sentence stating that CharlieCards would become generally available in November, 2006 (as recently confirmed in the updated version of the fare increase booklet at was changed in the article to 2007, and the contributer (Knowing Is Half The Battle) states it is because the MBTA has pushed availability back. A search around news outlets and the web shows no indication that the MBTA has made that announcement recently, and I'd be surprised if they'd done so since Friday, when the updated fare increase booklet was made available. Is there a cite for this? Geoff.green 16:12, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
 * http://www.mbta.com/projects_underway/afc/charlieticket_info.asp says 2007.--agr 15:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No it doesn't, it definitely says "later this year." Foxmulder 20:16, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It really did say 2007 when I looked at it earlier today. We are being watched :) But that is strong evidence they mean "later this year." --agr 21:15, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Government Center?
I don't see Government Center mentioned anywhere, either completed or to be done. Anyone know its status? Also i think it may be time to change the installation information section to an "all except" basis. --agr 14:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I see no sign of Charlie construction, or even preparation for construction, at Government Center.

I agree that it's time to switch to a list of stations that are not completely converted. There are only 14 remaining (if you include the Church St entrance at Harvard, the Valenti Way entrance to North Station, and the Franklin St entrance to Downtown Crossing).--Ron Newman 18:20, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

NON-converted stations
If we want to change over to a list of stations that have NOT been converted, or where conversion is not yet finished:

Red Line: Davis, Harvard (Church Street only), Charles, Fields Corner, Ashmont

Orange Line: North Station (Valenti Way only), Downtown Crossing (Franklin Street only), Chinatown (outbound only)

Blue Line: Bowdoin, Government Center, Maverick

Green Line: Government Center, Arlington, Copley, Kenmore

--Ron Newman 19:04, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * If that list is now substantially shorter than the list of already-converted stations, then it seems like it's time to switch to the now-shorter list.


 * Atlant 19:05, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the most recent edit removes a useful distinction, between stations where Charlie construction is currently going on (such as Davis, Harvard, North Station, Chinatown, and Copley), and stations where nothing at all has been done (such as Charles, Government Center, and Bowdoin).

At Arlington, there is plenty of construction, but none of it seems to be Charlie-related.

I haven't recently visited Kenmore, Ashmont, Fields Corner, or Maverick, so I don't know what they look like now.

Ron Newman 13:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * We could mark the ones where instillation construction has started with an * and add a foot note. Presumably the MBTA wants to have every station converted before the January fare hike so they don't have to honor tokens for a full ride. --agr 13:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

OK, I added asterisks for stations where I know I've seen Charlie construction, and also for Ashmont just because it was on the list before this page was edited. If anyone knows first-hand the status of Kenmore, Fields Corner, Ashmont, or Maverick, please edit appropriately. -- Ron Newman 17:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * News reports that the final token has been sold (to a 47-year-old Colombian immigrant named Rubiela Velez) strongly imply that all stations have been converted. See:, .  --Sommerfeld 18:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I visited Maverick, Government Center, Bowdoin, and Charles last night, and none of them were yet converted. Charles had four gates and two FVMs installed, but not powered on. Maverick had two turnstiles, and construction going on behind plywood walls, which didn't have enough cracks for me to see through. Government Center had two turnstiles and a bucket to drop fares into, but no sign of any FVMs or Charlie gates yet.--Ron Newman 19:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Kenmore has been CharlieTicket/Card-accepting since somewhere around the 5th-10th. They also have vending machines in the station. Does my going-to the station consistute "original research"? Shorelander 22:01, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Please make sure your information is accurate before editing the non-converted station lists. In the past few days, someone removed Government Center from the list, while someone else added back Kenmore and Science Park. None of these edits were correct, and I reverted them. --Ron Newman 00:38, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The problem with the constant returning is that people are referring to the MBTA website, which could constitute officially what's online and what's not. That said, they're slow in updating (took them three days to update Haymarket's status). In other news, I think the drop for GC was a bit of confusion, since it looks done. I suspect GC to be converted either tomorrow or Friday. That said, drop the "they should have it done by the end of the year" bit. From various sources, I've been told it will not be completely finished until sometime in 2007. I know Copley has no chance of getting converted by the end of the year, otherwise the barricades would be down now. And does anyone know what's happening at Bowdoin?

Bowdoin may be ready as soon as tomorrow. On Friday morning the FVMs were already turned on, and the gates were just waiting for a final checkover.

They HAVE to finish this by the end of the year. If they don't, they can't implement the fare increase. --Ron Newman 02:01, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Questionable statement
The article says " Ironically, the Charlie Card will make future fare increases and higher rates for longer rides easier to implement."

However, the proposed fare increase, which very much depends on CharlieCard, establishes a uniform fare policy. It eliminates the exit fares and double-entrance fares in Quincy and Braintree, as well as the higher fares on the Green Line D branch.

Charging higher fares for longer rides would require riders to use their cards when exiting, as is done in San Francisco's BART and Washington's Metro. The MBTA appears to be going in the opposite direction, following the lead of New York City. -Ron Newman 17:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Ron, I think they are referencing to the CharlieCard's implementation into the Commuter Rail system, which they will have done by the end of next year.

Separate sections for CharlieTicket and CharlieCard?
There seems to be a lot of confusion in the general boston-area public about the difference between the paper magstripe CharlieTicket and the plastic RFID/smartcard CharlieCard; information about them tends to get mixed together, and that confusion is reflected in this article (most notably by the fact that there's a picture of a CharlieTicket at the head of the article). Any objection to revising the outline and paring apart CharlieTicket vs CharlieCard differences into separate sections? Sommerfeld 19:13, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think so. The first paragraph of the general discussion talks about the CharlieCard; the second talks about the CharlieTicket. I don't think we need to spell it out even more obviously. Information about them tends to get mixed together because they are part of the same integrated fare system -- they're used in the same fareboxes, they're reloaded on the same FVMs, I don't see where they're confused in the article in a way that is factually inaccurate. If you pull them apart, what do you do? A CharlieCard section, and where to reload/buy/use, and then a CharlieTicket section, and where to reload/buy/use? That seems excessive for a five-paragraph segement of the article.  I do agree about replacing the picture, though; if no one gets to it first, I'll scan in a CharlieCard  image and upload it and add it to the page once I get one. Geoff.green 19:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the best structure would have one section describing the CharlieCard, followed by a section describing the CharlieTicket in terms of differences from the CharlieCard.--192.18.128.5 01:33, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't replace the CharlieTicket picture. Keep it, but ADD a picture of a CharlieCard, front and back. This will help people tell the two apart.
 * This seems to have happened already.--192.18.128.5 01:33, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Last token?
The Boston globe reports today that the last token was sold yesterday. Does that mean all the Red, Blue and Orange line stations have been converted? (Green line passengers can pay on board, I believe.)--agr 13:42, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No -- all the remaining unconverted stations just have buckets where you can put your tokens or cash (or nothing, oftentimes) to pay the fare. Geoff.green 15:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Copley?
What's going on with Copley? Station operators said nothing, the new MBTA website says nothing on its conversion (they do about Ashmont (converted), the Mattapan trolleys (which sound kind of ridiculous), and Fields Corner), and as of yesterday the place was STILL walled up, with a few of the turnstile/panels still in their boxes on either end. WTF, eh? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.192.10.247 (talk) 03:38, 21 December 2006 (UTC).

Supposedly everything is supposed to be finished by this Friday, December 22. We'll see. Ron Newman 05:05, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

According to a post on railroad.net, Copley is now converted. I prefer not to make changes to the station list that I haven't personally verified, so if someone else can take a look and make the appropriate edit, I'd appreciate it. Ron Newman 15:08, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

'December 18' events: did they happen on schedule?
This page still refers in future tense to several events that were supposed to happen on December 18: the activation of Fare Vending Machines at some Green Line 'D' stops, and the installation of Charlie gates at Riverside station. It's now December 21. Did these things happen on schedule? If so, we should remove reference to them. If not, we should change the scheduled date. Ron Newman 23:18, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Privacy Policy?
I wonder to what degree the CharlieCard I received through my coroporate pass program could be used to build up a record of every place I go on the MBTA.

I'm not an expert on parsing privacy policies, but here is MBTA's website/CharlieCard policy:

http://www.mbta.com/customer_support/privacy_policy/

It seems that if you have a "Managed Account" (apparently this is any one that supports loss prevention) then it reads like the MBTA stores records of each location and time that you use your CharlieCard and links these records to your personal information.

I'm happy to add a section to the page about this, but if somebody a little more qualified wants to beat me to the punch, then have at it.

Here is the section from the privacy policy that most disturbs me:

"Each time that a patron uses his or her Electronic Fare Media, the MBTA system collects information about the location of use. Except in the case of a Managed Account, this 'location of use' information is not 'linked' by our system to a particular user. ... For Managed Accounts, location information is by necessity linked to a particular user and a particular Smart Card. We use this 'linked' location information only for purposes of providing to you the Managed Account services you have requested from us."

I don't see how storing a list of every place I go is a "necessity." ricefrog 14:09, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

'Fare cod' source?
It's cute, but smacks of original 'research'; and I can't find any mention of this in a simple Google search. Adding a cite needed tag... -- Metahacker 00:31, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It also makes no sense. In Boston, "cod" and "card" are not pronounced the same way. "Cod" uses a low back rounded vowel (/kɒd/ in IPA), whereas "card" uses a low back unrounded vowel (/kɑ:d/ in IPA). Bostonians would never confuse the two. The latter vowel is how short o is pronounced in most of the US, so the confusion must come from someone from the hinterland. Bostoner (talk) 00:57, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Green Line
At several stations, like Lechemere, the CharlieCard must be used to pass a high-tech looking gate before pax can proceed onto the platform. This ameliorates the rush hour boarding problem at these stations (since you must have already paid in order to even board the train). I'm not sure how many stations have these gates (since yesterday I did notice a sign talking about rear-door boarding procedures on surface stations. It mentioned that D Line has the platform gates -- Cowbert 06:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * "pax"? - DavidWBrooks 19:15, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * passengers -- Cowbert 06:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Exonumia?
How is a piece of paper with a computer strip of interest to people who study coins and metal/wooden tokens? Or is the definition at exonumia too narrow? - DavidWBrooks 21:32, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Bad link for third reference
The third reference "MBTA bids farewell to an era the last brass tokens are sold" is a bad link. How should it be changed in the article? mdkarazim (talk) 20:22, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Link fixed and working. It had a word missing. Thanks for catching this problem. Hertz1888 (talk) 12:47, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Picture Of CharlieCard?
Should we add a picture of a CharlieCard or a CharlieTicket, so readers know what the card looks like? I don't think it is a bad idea, becuase the article doesn't have any pictures. Post your comments here. 24.151.137.221 (talk) 21:37, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

CharlieCard amounts?
I only knew the T from the 85 cents days... so this was new to me. Buying a ticket I had an option of $5 or $10. If the fare is $2, what's the point of the $5 ticket? Probably something simple but it confused me and might be worthwhile to mention in the article. Thanks --Jolomo (talk) 19:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Cost and where to buy?
If it says in the article how much a CharlieCard costs and where one can be bought, it's not very obvious. I found one reference to it supposedly being available for free but I'm not sure. This is quite an important piece of information (and is the reason I came to this page to begin with). Could someone add it please? Icemuon (talk) 21:09, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * There's a whole paragraph about cost, and the introduction says it is "used for electronic ticketing as part of the Automated Fare Collection (AFC) system installed by the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA) at its stations and on its vehicles". There's also links to the official site of the card, if you want more. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 21:20, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

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